Any feedback at all? I know these are more long term ideas, but I'd like to see what the community thinks of some of these concepts.

2

(64 replies, posted in General discussion)

Except that wouldn't work at all, because powerful/old corporations and alliances could just sit at the beta 1 gates and camp people out of the ENTIRE BETA SYSTEM.

This game doesn't need more of the same. There are already enough players camping gates with trial accounts, there's no need to make it even easier for them to do what they're doing already.

3

(64 replies, posted in General discussion)

At the risk of looking like a total jerk, I posted a thread regarding just these issues in the suggestions forum. I considered putting it up in general but I wasn't sure if it was the right place for it.

Linky:

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … p-content/

Hayek wrote:
Rico Rage wrote:

- Bigger islands: Scouting is too easy to do using trial accounts. Teleports are easy to camp and to use as scouting tools. There is no way to "sneak into an island" because there are only a few entry points into  them. Open them up so players can travel by foot into another island, or provide players with the means to teleport players INTO an island if they sneak in.

Some islands are pretty empty. Maybe merging some empty islands and adding more highways (and improving the speed buff) would add some movement

True, I think my main point is that there should be no way to camp "the entrance" and get all your scouting that way.  Its one thing to commit 20 people to spread out and watch a canyon, quite another to commit someone with a trial account to sit at a teleporter and watch for groups coming in.

I believe its a fairly good assumption to make that the majority of players want some sort of change in perpetuum, to both improve the PvP and PvE experience. The problem in games such as this is that its hard to mix PvE players with PvP players, when death carries such a weighty penalty. Other MMOs get past that by making death mean little, having instances battlegrounds, and overall watering down PvP mechanics to the point of it being an extra bullet point on the back of the box.

I also believe it is a fairly good assumption to make that most of us would not like this.

So I was thinking back to some of the MMO's I've played, trying to figure out what drew me to each one, and what worked and what didn't in terms of PvP and PvE content. So let's take a look, and see if we can learn something from them:


Ultima Online:

PvE:

This game's PvE was a lot like perpetuum. Random spawns in the world, sitting there waiting for you to kill them. There were some dungeons, some tougher monsters, and things of that nature, but overall if you wanted PvE you went out and killed some mobs for the sole reason of loot drops. This worked ok, as the majority of equipment was player crafted, and only the "nice stuff" was dropped from mobs.

No quests back when I played it, but the game didn't really need them, as PvE was not what it was about.

PvP:

Towns were the only safe place. Safety was ensured by godlike Guards, which could be summoned by literally typing "guards" in chat whenever another player did something illegal to you or someone near you. PvP was free for all, full loot (items you were wearing & in your inventory, as well as any gold you had). Players could make a living from PvP by killing others and taking their stuff.

You could tell who was likely to attack you because murderer's names would be red. Other players would be blue, criminals and shady characters had gray names. Death happened often, and meant losing whatever you had on you (but you could pick it all up if someone else didn't, after respawn)

What worked:

PvP was fun because gearing up again was really cheap, and thus farming wasn't necessary. Mining was the "grinding" you had to do, in order to collect the ore you needed to make weapons and armor. Any player could do this, and mines were often a favorite hangout of PK's (why mine when you can have someone else do it for you, then kill them and take their stuff?). Character progression was tied to ingame skill usage, so you could have a character maxed out in your chosen skillset within days. This was good because it meant newbies could be effective very early on, while experienced players could still take on several newer opponents due to gear/game knowledge advantage. PvE players could sit and craft all day, they could build houses and castles, and go to dungeons looking for the best loot. They could collect herbs and other items needed by the general populace, and they could sell them in their own personal store. They could even hire NPC vendors to sell their wares for them.

Guilds could essentially craft cities, and were reliant on PvE players to keep the PvP going.

UO shards exist to this day. More than 10 years later, with thousands of players still playing.


Shadowbane:

Shadowbane was really cool, but I hated their interface and controls. The only way to move was clicking on terrain. Melee combat was pretty boring, and actually fairly ineffective in PvP. It did however, have some neat mechanics which made it different from other mmos:

PvE:

There were different areas, newbie areas with no PvP, safe zones, and PvP areas with free for all pvp. The majority of the game areas were FFA. PvE consisted of the same roaming mobs in the world, waiting for players to kill them for loot. The majority of a player's personal income came from farming mobs, and farm operations were common in guilds.

Most of player equipment was crafted. Players could build their own cities (literal cities, castle walls, defenses, vendors, trainers, bank and all). A map showed who owned what area of the world and how much territory they controlled. Alliances were commonplace, yet a lot of individual guilds existed and kept their own cities.

PvE players actually created neutral cities, where any guild could come buy their wares if they could not produce their own. These were bustling trade hubs where a mutual truce existed, as the trade cities were essential to all guilds since very few guilds could produce all they needed on their own.

Shadowbane also had the concept of Hot Zones; These were globally announced areas of the world (which were always open PvP areas, never safe) where monsters dropped better loot and rare treasures, as well as gave more experience. Hot zones swapped from place to place every few hours, and were always favored hunting grounds for PK players (and Anti PK guilds)


PvP:

Resources were obtained from player capturable mines. There were a lot of mines, spread out throughout the world. Each mine had different resources, and no area had all the resources needed for everything. Mines automatically collected resources for the guild who owned them, and stored them away. They also had upkeep costs, and needed to be upgraded in order to make them harder to capture (more HP, more defender NPCs).

Mines had windows of opportunity, for an hour every day, a mine had to be open for capture. Guild leaders could set the time the mine was open, so as to provide the defenders with reasonable chances of defence. The developers put certain limitations on that though, so as to avoid guilds setting windows in the middle of the night when other players could not attack it.

Special equipment was needed to destroy the guard towers and capture the mine. Once a mine was captured, it was yours until it was taken from you. This meant that throughout the day, every day, mines in different parts of the world, from different guilds, offering different resources, were open for capture. You could always travel somewhere to look for a mine to capture, and thus, ensuring PvP 24/7. A lot of times mines would be contested by multiple guilds, with the defenders having to fight off several groups to keep the mine, sometimes losing the mine to a "ninja cap" that could occur if a guild snuck in during the fighting and took the mine right before the end of the timer.

Cities could also be sieged. This was done using banestones which were placed 24 hours prior and gave the defenders time to prepare to fight. Siege equipment would be used to take down the walls. There were city buildings that buffed/debuffed (like preventing attackers from flying, which could be used to pass over city walls)

Cities could be ransacked and destroyed. You could of course loot what was left, as well as build a new city on top of it (building could only be done in certain areas).

EvE Online:

I'm pretty sure everyone is familiar, so I won't go into details. Their PvE content is fairly boring and stale, and their PvP leaves much to be desired. The most appealing factor of EvE is the politics, the player driven economy, and the open pvp, at least for me. However, their PvP implementation left me wanting, and was very unsatisfying.


What we can learn from this:


What I propose is that we learn from these games. Shadowbane was great in its PvP implementation, PvP had purpose to it and it was a key part of the game. PvE players were protected by PvP players, and were valued for their contributions. Is a guild attacking you every time you go farm? Simple then, go put a banestone on their city and make them regret it. A bane was a big deal, as it meant quite a bit to lose your city... it was no small feat to build them, cost a lot of money, and it was a slap in the face of the losers... to see your city smoldering in ruins.

Mine pvp was great fun, it provided the capturing guild great boons, and provided players with areas where PvP was almost assured almost every hour of the day. Small guilds could still compete by ninja capping a mine, or simply attacking a mine held by a smaller guild.

Hot zones were great because they provided PvE players incentives to go to PvP areas. PvP players had their prey, but PvE players could also defend themselves by either fighting back, or having their guildmates protect them while they farmed.




TLDR:

Perpetuum could learn from other games in the past.

My suggestions include:

- Hot Zones that change every few hours, are only found in beta islands, and spawn NPCs that drop better loot. This will encourage players to gather in specific strategic areas for more than just "the fun of roaming"

- Capturable resource locations: Create neutral "mining towers" that passively provide valuable resources to players who hold them. Make them capturable every day, ala shadowbane. Have different beta islands and locations within the beta islands have different mines with different resources. Have these towers grant mining bonuses to miners who mine around them, so as to encourage players to actively mine in these areas as well.

- Buildable outposts: Allow players to build outposts, not just capture existing ones. The most profit should be made from outposts built by players, while NPC outposts should remain as neutral ground for small corporations to use to gain a foothold on beta.

- Bigger islands: Scouting is too easy to do using trial accounts. Teleports are easy to camp and to use as scouting tools. There is no way to "sneak into an island" because there are only a few entry points into  them. Open them up so players can travel by foot into another island, or provide players with the means to teleport players INTO an island if they sneak in.

- Full loot drops in Hot Zones: Full loot should drop in hot zones, maybe even allow for a small chance for bots to "drop" after you kill them. This will encourage more solo and small gang players to go out and PvP for personal gain, rather than corporation gain. Make pirating profitable.

- With the inclusion of pirating incentives, incentivize players to go after them, or include drawbacks into the system. Maybe they can be attacked freely in alpha islands if they dare venture into them, grant NIC rewards to players who kill them, based on what bots they're driving (to discourage players having their friends kill them and split the cash). Make the reward be less than the bot & module total cost.

6

(57 replies, posted in Balancing)

Arilou wrote:
Rico Rage wrote:

It's not as if they can jump into beta without being blown up by 20 heavy mechs in their light bot and then have certain people acting all badass in general chat about it.

lol They absolutely can! Maybe not solo, but people should just find a corp and make the leap. As in EVE, Beta isn't actually that dangerous to live in once you're there with a friendly corp or two around you. Even as a visitor to hostile islands, it's not that bad once you get the hang of it. There just aren't that many people on them.

Rico Rage wrote:

This game needs more PvE players to grow the playerbase. You can't expect to funnel them all into beta this early in the game's life, there are simply too many wowbears running around in MMO's these days. A large number of EVE players just stick to high sec all their lives, I believe this should be an option in Perpetuum as well, regardless of how much I dislike it.

If you legitimize risk-averse play as its own category (as opposed to letting it exist as a less-optimal style) a dual community evolves (as in EVE). PvEers will always be asking for more dynamic, exciting, and unpredictable content, essentially demanding that the devs recreate via AI something that already exists in PvP. It's never quite as good, though, and takes resources better spent on gameplay, interface, and graphics improvements. Best to just push people over the hump and show them it's no worse to lose your bot to a human than an AI.

I'm still totally okay with PvE content, just not separate from the open PvP. Missions as the main source of top-tier ammo is acceptable to me under those conditions, but not on Alpha (fine for them to get basic ammo via missions). The best stuff should always be Beta-sourced only. And I say that as someone who's (currently) an Alpha2 dweller.


Trust me, I agree with you as I'm a big fan of PvP and thats the sole reason I play MMOs, for the challenge of fighting other players.

However Perpetuum is already set up in such a way that you never have to leave the safety of Alpha. It think nullsec has already proven that regardless of how much profit there is behind an activity, there are just certain playerst hat would rather do non-risky things for lesser gain. In fact I'd say that alpha is safer than high sec, because at least in EVE there's the risk of suicide ganks.

This is a different topic entirely though, and I'd hate to lose this discussion within this thread, so maybe I'll start a new thread with ideas on how to merge the PvP and PvE populations within the game.

Bringing it back to ammo though, I strongly believe the limited run CT approach would benefit all involved. Mission ammo prices would be cheaper, and also more readily available. Think of it like this:

I'm a newbie mission runner, I run missions in alpha and accumulate enough LP with the ICS faction to buy a 10 run, 1000ct CT for magnetdart ammo. I'm a combat agent, so I don't have the skills to manufacture it. So I look to the market, and see that there are industrialists looking to buy this CT in order to make the ammo and sell at a profit. I sell the CT and pocket the nic for my new assault bot I'm saving up for.

Industrialist:

I buy the CT, get the mats to produce it from a buy order on the market, which has been filled out by a local miner or a corp member. I gather the mats and schedule the CT to run and manufacture the ammo, I then sell the ammo at a price to make a profit on the market, but I can't sell it too high because everyone else is buying up CTs and producing it too, so I have to compete. I also have the option of producing it at cost, if I want to further help my corp.

PvP Pilot:

I get to buy my PvP and farming ammo for cheap because the ammo can be mass produced by industrials rather than painfully farmed by turning in missions over and over. Ammo is cheaper and more plentiful.

It seems like Win all across the board for me. Its certainly better for the market, over the current system since it actually involves the entire community across the board.

Now there's an idea... I'd like to see more expansion on the idea of PvP missions. Though there are no friendly NPCs in the game at this point, so I bet the framework for it has not been laid out yet.

8

(57 replies, posted in Balancing)

The problem I see with that is that most missioners are Alpha dwellers. If mission running is not profitable in alpha, what are newbies to do when they start the game? It's not as if they can jump into beta without being blown up by 20 heavy mechs  in their light bot and then have certain people acting all badass in general chat about it.

Missions are pretty terrible as they are already for a newbie. I stopped running them as a trial because I figured out that I was spending almost as much on ammo as the reward was giving me, so I went farming instead and made a lot more money.

There's something pretty wrong about that, making more money farming some T1 spot as a newbie than doing the missions. I get it that you want it easier to get this ammo, that's good, but to make it available in the way you describe does not really solve the problem, only makes the gear/equip disparity between beta/alpha corps much worse. You won't get any PvP if an alpha knows you can not only field more experienced players than them, but better equipment as well (which is already the case, this just further tips the scale in your direction). There's not a lot of fun to be had being one-shotted in beta, adding this reward to beta islands only makes that problem worse.

Let the ammo flow through alpha mission runners. This game needs more PvE players to grow the playerbase. You can't expect to funnel them all into beta this early in the game's life, there are simply too many wowbears running around in MMO's these days. A large number of EVE players just stick to high sec all their lives, I believe this should be an option in Perpetuum as well, regardless of how much I dislike it.

9

(57 replies, posted in Balancing)

Well the thing is, you want missions to give unique rewards that other activities/professions do not give you. The reason being that it needs to provide an incentive for players to do them, rather than farming mobs.

Problem is, even with the ammo, doing missions doesn't really give good enough rewards (from a relatively new player's point of view, not sure about beta missions). A rewards store, ala Captain Barbie Online  is actually not a bad solution, as it allows mission runners to influence industry and the market through combat activities that do not involve PvP or farming.

Basically, I think limited run CTs for special mission items/ammo is the way to go. Sure, maybe give them the option of buying the faction module by itself, but also allow them to buy a CT of it with limited runs, that they can sell for cash. That way they can choose between NIC and modules.

Industry profits, mission runners profit too.

10

(20 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

+Over9000

11

(57 replies, posted in Balancing)

Arga wrote:

And you found the flaw.

Consumables I can see working , but nothing like modules, which should remain player created.


Easily solvable by having the Faction store sell limited run CT's, which mission runners can buy using their points, and sell to industrialists for extra cash on the market.

There's an option for this under the gameplay options menu. Can't quite remember the exact text, but its there.

13

(18 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

Arilou wrote:

I'd be okay with a radar-only cloak that can operate only while standing still. So, hidden to radar but not actually invisible (hide in the bushes!). And disabled completely if you start moving at all. Could be used in addition to maskers, but no additional masking from the cloak itself.

I like the idea of not showing up on landmarks at all, but how about being able to target the bot if you see it, and maybe just giving the bot a 50% debuff or something, along with slower targeting lock time and reduced health. You could also limit module use to assault/certain bot types so as to prevent massive mech *** gangs showing up out of nowhere.  This could open the door to "gank" type stealth bots, that could maybe win small gang fights if they pick the right target/moment to strike, but will get OMGWTFBBQed if they are spotted since they can't run away and have reduced HP.

This would also make them ideal scouts.

JoJo McNugget wrote:

you can load all guns at once with the same ammo and have been able to for a couple of months now, you press the shift key and keep it pressed then right click a weapon and choose the ammo you wany like you would normaly and hey presto it loads all of them with that ammo.

That seems a bit unintuitive, but glad to know there's a way to do it. If the function is already there though, it would probably be more user/newbie friendly if the right click menu had a "change ammo (all)", similar to the reload all option.

Celebro:

I was thinking along the lines of the bots that have the ability to fit multiple types of weapons at the same time. Let's say theoretiaclly I have 2 medium and 4 small weapons, or I have 2 turrets loaded with close range ammo, and 2 with long range ammo. By grouping them you give players more options for combat.

Will all the options, or even the scenarios I described above be optimal? Probably not, but the game would do well to at least give us a proper choice that doesn't involve having to manually cycle each weapon slot.

1) Ability to link items on chat (drag and drop a module into chat and like the item's name and description)

2) Ability to load all weapons with the same kind of ammo with a single right click command. As it stands, you have to right click each gun and tell it to load a different type of ammo. Very unwieldy.

3) Ability to store bot fittings, and link them in chat.

4) Ability to mouse over EWAR and status icons in landmarks window and have it pop up text telling us what that effect means (Icons are not really very descriptive of the effect on you, you can only learn this from experience... which is bad, since you can potentially lose a bot like this)

5) Ability to group weapons and modules.

6) A tactical overlay that lets you see your maximum gun range, optimal, and gun LOS

16

(10 replies, posted in Resolved bugs and features)

Yeah I have also run into these mobs that turn tail and run like the wind. I believe there is some sort of range in place to keep you from kiting mobs too far out. With kiting being almost a necessity for farming anything aside T1 mobs in this game, they should either remove this behavior or reduce the damage some mob groups do, in order to make it possible to farm these spawns if you fit a good tank.

17

(8 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

How about limiting usage by bot size?

Perp devs need to develop this, then invent a time machine and give it to us earlier, because this idea is so good it should release with the game.

Johnny, I just wanted to let you know that your posts are some of the best on these boards. Not only does your face crack me up every time, but as a techie/developer,  its clear you know your stuff.

These forums get far too little activity, so keep it up :-P

Agreeing that missions do not give proper rewards for the amount of work necessary.

21

(106 replies, posted in News and information)

Syndic wrote:
Juan Valdez wrote:

CIR and co wouldn't lose out from this, as they have a few good corps in the alliance stable. The most capable groups would no doubt go out to Dom and take the empty or underused outposts there.

Syndic seems most worried about the likelihood of a reduction in population density on Nova, as that impacts the defensibility of ops and increases the length of shifts for gate scouts (fewer people, same number of gates, fewer scouts). This is a logical worry, as is his fear that some corps will feel the urge to bloat up in order to minimize the risk that an SAP will remain undone.

I'd personally prefer that population density on beta islands be made more even, and that's the likely result. A single well protected island chock full of people isn't as interesting for solo or small gang pvpers as several more moderately defended ones. Since those solo guys are fun to fight and write interesting stories encouraging them is a good thing, even if it does mean more vulnerable farmers getting popped!

You shouldn't spend this much time thinking about what worries me. Nothing about this change worries me, the ability for projected military force to directly apply to Outpost stability is obviously something that is very suitable for us on SovNov.

I am arguing that it is unfair & unjust that in a 6-corp alliance, 2 corps are the only ones getting the benefits of something the whole alliance is working on. It is ludicrous to assume that treating corps like this will cause anything BUT the formation of mega-corporations, hell I'll be the first to disband CIR & merge into a SovNov mega-corp if the alliance CEO's vote for that.

Its either 5 corporations with 100 members, or 1 corp with 500 members, either way inter-corporation relations will just grow stronger more quickly then they usually do over course of time. The game-mechanic that stops people from playing with friends was invented a long long time ago, and its called singleplayer mode. lol

I'd argue that having a 500 man corporation/alliance in Perpetuum IS kinda like playing a single player coop game.  wink

22

(8 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

Can't have a mech game without jetpacks!

In-game mechanics:

- Uses a lot of accumulator
- Mass of the robot affects mid air maneuverability
- Weapon systems offline, or angle limited (IE: Your minigun can't rotate to shoot directly under you while mid air)
- Mostly used to maneuver rough terrain and gain tactical advantage.
- The smaller the robot, the higher it can "jump"
- Should be bursty, and expensive to use, so as to avoid mid combat use and abuse.

Ideas on how it could be used as such ingame:

1) To position yourself atop a hill before a big fight, to gain a tactical advantage with LOS
2) Big bad bot/gang about to alpha strike you? Maybe their shots can miss you if you time your jetpack burst well enough.
3) Stuck on top of a huge cliff with no way down except for a 10+ min walk? Just jump down and use a small burst right before you hit to minimize damage from the fall.


Etc.. Has this been suggested before? I'd be surprised if it hadn't.

Thoughts?

23

(20 replies, posted in General discussion)

H2O:

Paypal has the option to attach a bank account, so you don't need a CC for it.

You may want to try playing around with your graphics settings, perhaps lowering them or turning some off. Then slowly turn them on until you find the culprit.

25

(132 replies, posted in General discussion)

EvE player here... on my 3rd day of trial, really considering buying at least a month to try out the whole shebang. I want to get involved in some pvp to see how it all works out, but from what I hear just like in EvE I may need some backup... any corps recruiting EvE players?

I'm speccing into numqol and magnetic weapons, will be able to pilot an assault bot today probably. Been working on my fitting skills for the most part.