Topic: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

New devblog is out, with a surprise monsterpost on a proposed new Intrusion system.

http://blog.perpetuum-online.com/posts/ … usion-2-0/

2 (edited by Mammoth 2011-07-29 00:17:45)

Re: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

Looks awesome.

The only problem I can think of is that getting sniped will happen and it will be annoying too with a 50% starting stability adding ~3 days to the capture time. Perhaps lower starting stability a bit and add a few levels of NIC investment? That way if you're confident you can hold it you can throw a bunch of NIC at it to get a decent stability, but if you just sniped it from the middle of a massive fight you had no business being involved in you don't screw the real winners too badly unless you have more money than sense.

Overall though, the concept is excellent, and you can play with the specific numbers anytime.

Re: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

too complicate. why not make saps accesible permanently but with 5h+ timing to complete?

Re: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

Alexadar doesn't that just miss the entire point? What you're proposing would incite more blob warfare. This new system is about who's Corp is actively on beta, not who's Corp can have a few hours to prepare and bring the blob.

Re: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

How will docking rights be handled?  If its allowed with ANY stability at all, then you get the ability to lock people out without hardly any effort because because you want to kick random vagrants out of some unused outpost.  Just take 1 sap on a lucky draw with passive hacking and lol bye bye everyone else.

Will you need to pay at least 100m NIC to take control of the outpost (at 50% stability), then you control docking until it reaches 0%?  That sounds like the most reasonable way to handle it.

->You just lost The Game<-

Re: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

Doesnt it say that you only have control of Docking rights at the 50% threshold?

Re: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

Awesome idea.  Exactly what is needed.  Those Beta outposts will become very popular and populated.

Sociorum, inimicos, omnes

-:does speak for NSA on the forums:-

8 (edited by LouiseI 2011-07-29 08:19:37)

Re: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

Is it ?It does not change:"Why should I even bother being on beta-islands ?"

Re: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

Much better than the current system.

Re: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

LouiseI wrote:

Is it ?It does not change:"Why should I even bother being on beta-islands ?"

There are a few incentives, but I think we need to hear more about the auras as well.

I certainly think its a far superior system as to what we have now. Whether it pans out as well as it looks on paper is a different story though.

Re: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

So big multi-timezone corps will now rule Beta instead of alliances. alliances are dead

Re: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

I think overall i like the changes. But since i don't know much about the current mechanics either i have some questions:

Will the control-level offset the fact that some outposts have better facilities than others by this cost reduction? If not would it not be time to change them all to 3 for additional benefit?

I think the aura idea is great, maybe even let the owners choose what he wants as a benefit and let them change it once a week or so. Something like nexus modules for the whole region. The higher your control the more slots you get.

Perhaps you could even think about add-ons for outposts like a shield-dome for protection or similar stuff.

Re: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

ZUBO wrote:

Will the control-level offset the fact that some outposts have better facilities than others by this cost reduction? If not would it not be time to change them all to 3 for additional benefit?

My interpretation is that the level of the facility is going to be standardised across the board, and governed by your stability level instead.

Re: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

I hope some of the SAPs get changed with it too.

the Destruction SAP for example needs a huge force to be destroyed.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

Annihilator wrote:

I hope some of the SAPs get changed with it too.

the Destruction SAP for example needs a huge force to be destroyed.

I agree,  as right now it still means needing a blob, either defending or attacking.

Re: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

What I am curious about is if factory costs are part of the services? if so 0 factory costs thats a very big % of the production cost saved right there?

Re: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

DEV Zoom wrote:

# We want the system to reward people who live on the betas, not just those that raid them.

Then make the teleporters defended outposts ?
Isn't it the access to the islands that makes it possible to raid ?

DEV Zoom wrote:

#We feel this system will encourage PvP on the beta islands: it’s a very safe bet that somewhere on some island at some outpost at least one SAP is vulnerable at all times, and people will need to be on their islands in order to keep their outposts safe. More beta traffic offers more opportunities for raiding and for defending. More PvP for everyone!

Do you feel 'everyone' wants PvP ? If you think so, why not changing alpha to beta except for the three starters islands ?
Why would we on alpha islands care about things happening on beta islands ? Why don't make a connection from Beta to Alpha ? Maybe if the status of Beta changes in major way, an Alpha status in minor way will follow ?
Why not make SAP's on alpha guarded by Elite NPC ?Maybe that way what happens on PvE will reflect on things on Beta ? Or Viceversa ?

DEV Zoom wrote:

#We feel this system encourages small groups to “take their shot” since few groups will have the ability to maintain multiple locations at the same time.

Don't you think this still is 'easier' for larger Corps, NEX, TOG, CIR, FOOM then anybody else ?

DEV Zoom wrote:

#This allows us to implement Outpost locking without creating the nightmare situation of “You wake up and can’t get to your stuff.” It will be very clear in advance when you’re in danger of losing control.

The compass does not dismiss you of rowing. How can I defend if suddenly while mining in an Argano my SAP decides to open up surrounded by all of my enemies ? Don't you feel an outpost should have its own defense system ?

DEV Zoom wrote:

Outpost Ownership is going to become organic, and not absolute, in a tug-of-war fashion.

I am not sure if I even understand this ?

DEV Zoom wrote:

Outpost Ownership will now naturally reflect who lives on an island.

Speaking of nature, I wonder, would it not be better if ownership was not permanent but only for a certain time ? Or what if we get rid of all outposts and let the players have to flush in and to their best to keep up their own defenses ?

Re: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

Dev Zoom wrote:

Outpost Ownership is going to become organic, and not absolute, in a tug-of-war fashion.

LouiseI wrote:

I am not sure if I even understand this ?

I think Dev Zoom is saying that ownership of an outpost will be more of a dynamic process, rather than static. Dynamic meaning, constantly shifting, whilst static meaning a clear-cut owner. Owning an outpost will no longer be in black and white terms, rather shades of grey smile

Re: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

Also that currently owning an outpost doesn't require the corp to do anything but show up in mass 2 times a week at a set time. It was that mechanic that opened the door for one alliance to own many outposts on different islands (regardless of exploit). What I mean exactly is that a single powerful group could move from intrusion to intrusion on a known schedule, because they didn't need to have any troops left behind to guard.

Now the system is more like Risk. You can start with a fixed number of armies, but as you take each country you have to leave at least 1 unit behind, and typically more to prevent it from being recaptured.

Assuming that the owners want to keep the outpost as stable as they can, to gain the most benefit -

One of (2) SAPs can go active at any time, and if you don't actively win the SAP, then you lose stability. However I'm going with these will be active and passive SAP's, because requiring a corp to feed modules (or use 100k rounds of ammo) to the SAP every day would get very tedious. It will however mean you have to have active SAP modules available for players 24/7 and not just a dedicated player.

The lower your stability is, which is going to be publically visible, the higher chance that someone is going to want to push you down, for lulz if nothing else. In any case, your going to need to have a few players held back or a single pirate that happens to be on your Island when the SAP actives can sit on passive and drop you up to 6%. They aren't going to 'take' the outpost, but it could push you to a lower resource threashold, which would be bad (assuming again corps want to keep it maximized).

But, because it's gradual like that, even corps that don't have a 24/7 presence can still hold an outpost, it will just never reach 100%.

The danger time of course is just after the SAP is taken. It's this point that a full sized roam can go off and see about hitting someone else's SAP. So, another question is will it be public knowledge when a SAP goes Active? If yes, then that's going to be some good Intel, especially if your SAP goes active shortly after someone elses finishes; but maybe you just sent 3/4 of your force out on a roam, but they won't get back in 10 mins. Risky.

Re: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

Hmm.  The problem before was that corporations were holding many terminals because they could effectively defend them.  With this change, corporations will definitely have to take a more active role in holding what they have, and that’s a good thing.   I almost want to say that it’s a realistic representation, but this is, after all, a fictional game.

On the matter of sniping, I think the players themselves will work out the repercussions.  If an entity gains a reputation for sniping, then they better have the resources to defend themselves, else they face destruction from the other players.  In the case that a large corporation decides that sniping is an effective tactic for preventing control of areas of an island, who’s to say that others won’t band together to teach them a lesson.  I look at this as just another mechanism for inducing competitive interactions, and that’s a good thing.

On the subject of alliances, I would say that this new system would discourage alliances that are of the type of mutual defense.  If you, and only you, can truly hold the outpost and maintain a relatively high efficiency (control) level, then forming an alliance for the purposes of defense—any defense—does not benefit both parties and thus no alliance will form.

If we take that idea a bit further, it does insinuate that perhaps you could purchase the services of mercenary groups…but then we are back to the “my corp didn’t technically win the SAP, so my control is lowered anyway”.  Could the player base find a way around this issue?  I believe they very much could, but it would be cumbersome, so why not build a mechanism into this from the start.  Perhaps something that ties in the allowed/disallowed docking list with groups who are allowed to take your SAP (which the game would consider as you having taken it).

Re: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

My only concern with this is that after 2 months of doing SAP's daily to defend your outpost, its going to turn into a very "AH FOR F*** SAKE NOT AGAIN..." type of grind.

Otherwise, loving the change it definitely makes it easier to control outposts through persistent show of force. big_smile

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

My issue with the new system is that you can capture a SAP in 10 minutes with a single guy (Unless it's a destruction SAP).

So It's not really a 2 hour window it's a 10 minute window the moment you notice someone else taking it. As long as the "SAP active" notification is good then it'll be fine. Just log an alt in and do whatever the SAP wants you to do unless it's a hard to complete SAP and then just defend it for two hours.

Doesn't seem hugely complex at all and I agree with Syndic that this will get very old very quickly. Two SAPs a day every day is going to get old. Most outpost will probably hold around 70%. It's a nice idea to get to 100% outpost control for free repairs, production and such but that reward seems very over powered. We're talking about outpost being NIC sinks and this is just making anyone that holds an outpost WTFPWN. If you can get an outpost to 100% then you're already creaming your enemy at every turn.

Re: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

TBH now is the time to bring in alliance features. No corporation should be forced to recruit in all timezones just to be Beta-competitive, thats what alliances are for in the first place. Its either monster-corporations or alliances, either way it'll be done and there is no preventing it.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

No corporation IS forced to recruit in all time zones just to be beta competitive. Most heavily dominated islands will sit around 90-95% anyhow, because they'll get all the SAPs they're online for, and on the occasions they have no one on, they'll lose maybe 1 in 2. (Less if it's a Specimen, I'd imagine.)

The only thing an alliance feature would do right now is allow oversized entities the ability to dominate larger swaths of landscape, which I get the distinct impression is NOT the intent of this system.

Re: New devblog: Intrusion 2.0

Taking SovNov as an example, we are composed of ADLN, THS, CIR, RG, HYDRA, ROME, DEAPR, and our new trial corporation B-W.

That is 8 corporations, with 2 (CIR & RG) owning the outposts on Novastrov. Why should the other 6 corporations, which contribute to the defense of the island like the other 2, be straddled with having to "stay away" from the SAP's because if they touch them they're doing harm to themselves?

Naturally you could say the Devs don't want "oversized entities", but again that makes no sense. Either there are alliances, or you have corporations merging into one monster-corporation - either way the outcome is not changed. The only thing being done by pretending a lack of a functioning alliance-system is in the game's interests, is inconveniencing a big part of the playerbase.

Its really a simple mechanic. Allow allied corps to capture SAP's of outposts owned by alliance-corporations. Pretending alliances don't exist in PO is pointless.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice