1 (edited by Neverfeldt 2011-08-25 12:49:34)

Topic: Easy added incentives to beta!

Other than the obvious extra incentives which have been talked/hinted about in dev blogs such as new bots and player owned stations, other easily implemented incentives to get people out of their safety blankets could be:

Double beta plasma drops, and increase kernel drop rate to maybe 75%. As it stands the reason to PvE on beta is simply for larger/higher level NPC camps. Also extra mission incentives that could make the missions actually worth doing rather than mining/NPCing without the wasted time running back and forth.

Increase the amount of ammo awarded from missions by like 5x (60 -> 300), this would help low level combat missions from becoming barely lucrative due to ammo costs further, and would promote enemies and friends alike to be running missions on beta to get the coveted medium crypto/Heat rounds, yes I'm excluding magnedart because I believe this should also be a ranged ammo, or at least have less of a range penalty.

Also outposts definately need more incentive to holding them other than slightly higher recycling, etc. but there's already been some news announced about this.

Simply put there needs to be more reward for the risk of going out to beta other than epriton, and of course the point of a sandbox game, PvP.

Re: Easy added incentives to beta!

Got an idea for adding value to beta, could be mentioned before or else ware, but you know :effort:.

Allow only the MK version of bots be built on beta's.
Allow only the new line of bots coming out in the future tobe built on beta's. Still allow alpha factories to build the T1 version of bots up to heavy mech, but the new destory class can only be built on beta's.
Allow beta's to be the only place to build T4's.
Allow destories only to use beta to beta island transports.
Only the holding corp can use the advance build options to build MK's, Destoriers, and T4.
Corps that hold thier respective OP above 80% earn nic for the corpate wallet from 5mil to 20mil a day, for the transfering energy back thru the hole to earth.

This imo adds more value to OP, and beta islands.

PS. Also as an incentive to PVP, the corp holding the SAP that takes away NIC earning ability from the corp holding the OP gains x amount from the rival corpations of that OP. Make it worth wild, like 50-100mil. Put something in the code that it will only pay out to other corps that actively hold an OP also. This will allow the larger corps to attack each other with the idea of disrupting thier nic stream.

[16:03:43] <Mara Gossep> syndic.....and get your *** spy out of our corp

Re: Easy added incentives to beta!

Epriton is all the reason there needs to be.

The biggest deterent to people MOVING to beta isnt that there isnt ample reward, it's that there's too much risk. Small community, epeen/ego issues, and certain corps that will camp stations and other tactics that are meant to grief anyone not affiliated with them. It's a player mentality issue, rather then lack of incentives.

If you've ever shot 5th teir spawns, espically of heavy mechs, you'd know they drop a *** of plasma. Enough that 2-3 hours of farming with 3-4 heavy mechs can provide a weeks work of production funds for a large corp. The kernel thing maybe.

What happend to FOOM is a good example of why corps wont move to beta. They didnt "ask" to take a station, they just took it. That pissed some people off, who didnt own the station, nor live on that island, nor were they allied with anyone who did. They simply did not show proper respect for the powers that be, and so they were camped into station, with flimsy excuses of "They're allied with 62nd".

Oh yeah... and more people.

Re: Easy added incentives to beta!

More stupid idears for Beta?

People do not want to go to beta and it doesn't matter what you make "Beta only".

Life with it damit!
It's sandbox ... if they decide "NO BETA FOR ME" then it's fine!

Re: Easy added incentives to beta!

Jack Jombardo wrote:

More stupid idears for Beta?

People do not want to go to beta and it doesn't matter what you make "Beta only".

Life with it damit!
It's sandbox ... if they decide "NO BETA FOR ME" then it's fine!

Whats up your butt? If you dont want to hear ideas for beta then dont click to read the post.

[16:03:43] <Mara Gossep> syndic.....and get your *** spy out of our corp

6 (edited by Jack Jombardo 2011-08-25 14:43:42)

Re: Easy added incentives to beta!

You try to hardcore nerf Alpha and I as pur Alpha player should be silence?

Gogo, bring more stupid idears.


PS: Some tip how to get more people to Beta
- do NOT gang every solo NPC-Corp guy but ask him if he like to join you
- do NOT flame every one who don't like PvP but ask him, if he provides you with mats/equip/bots if you TRY to protect him
- if you notice a new corp with few members try to ally them and provide them with prototypes if they join Beta

best advice: BE MORE FRIENDLY

Re: Easy added incentives to beta!

Jack Jombardo wrote:

You try to hardcore nerf Alpha and I as pur Alpha player should be silence?

Gogo, bring more stupid idears.


PS: Some tip how to get more people to Beta
- do NOT gang every solo NPC-Corp guy but ask him if he like to join you
- do NOT flame every one who don't like PvP but ask him, if he provides you with mats/equip/bots if you TRY to protect him
- if you notice a new corp with few members try to ally them and provide them with prototypes if they join Beta

best advice: BE MORE FRIENDLY

So you mean just group up with everyone and together we will rofl stomp them observers and finally win the game?

Re: Easy added incentives to beta!

Smokeyii wrote:

Epriton is all the reason there needs to be.

The biggest deterent to people MOVING to beta isnt that there isnt ample reward, it's that there's too much risk. Small community, epeen/ego issues, and certain corps that will camp stations and other tactics that are meant to grief anyone not affiliated with them. It's a player mentality issue, rather then lack of incentives.

If you've ever shot 5th teir spawns, espically of heavy mechs, you'd know they drop a *** of plasma. Enough that 2-3 hours of farming with 3-4 heavy mechs can provide a weeks work of production funds for a large corp. The kernel thing maybe.

What happend to FOOM is a good example of why corps wont move to beta. They didnt "ask" to take a station, they just took it. That pissed some people off, who didnt own the station, nor live on that island, nor were they allied with anyone who did. They simply did not show proper respect for the powers that be, and so they were camped into station, with flimsy excuses of "They're allied with 62nd".

Oh yeah... and more people.

Yes, as I said there needs to be more reward to equalize the risk, and yes I have done T5 heavies and they do drop alot of plasma, and you could double that and make it even more worthwhile thus further adding to the reward for being on beta. There are numerous things that can be done to increase beta activity, and many have been in dev blogs, but I primarily proposed these changes because they're simple to implement, only increasing numbers and not adding content. If these become over the top once new content is released they're also easily reversible.

Re: Easy added incentives to beta!

Eve has demonstrated clearly that these kinds of incentives won't bring people to nullsec (~ beta). They'll just make the current beta dwellers more powerful, adding to a (perceived?) imbalance between alpha and beta.

Re: Easy added incentives to beta!

Neverfeldt wrote:

So you mean just group up with everyone and together we will rofl stomp them observers and finally win the game?

No.

One ally peer Beta (ideal point). And with 6 Betas you get 6 partys to fight each other.

Big powerblocks like EvE-east, former NC, Goons+Please Ignore are terrible bad. Small allys are nice as you will allways have someone to fight.

It's not the NPC stuff (mining, producing, NIC, golden eggs) which bring people to Betas.
People bring people to beta!

Once you learned this, you will have more enemys and more friends.
If you don't learn this, you will be alone for much longe time.

Re: Easy added incentives to beta!

Something I've been thinking would be for AC to commit to not growing Alpha beyond what already exists. But keep adding Beta islands, of course. Then you get a sort of "stagnant homeland, but opportunity in the colonies" dynamic. Crowding will stifle Alpha, but higher populations will make it a major economic centre. Beta will be where you can build a better life despite the dangers: find untapped ore veins, uncontested spawns. The player movement will feel less artificial than that from boosting drop rates or something (IMO). And it's not an Alpha nerf, just a refusal to boost it ever again.

12 (edited by Jack Jombardo 2011-08-25 15:28:47)

Re: Easy added incentives to beta!

Neverfeldt wrote:

Yes, as I said there needs to be more reward to equalize the risk

Sorry but this is plain wrong.

More reward means more risk as more people try to earn the better reward.

And then? Add even MORE reward so even MORE people want it and you get MORE risk?

End with ONLY reward on Beta with EVERYONE want this reward and you have JUST risk?

In german it's called "Teufelskreis". Once you add this more reward the risk will rice too. Adding again more reward to compansate the new gained risk will just rise the risk even more.

This didn't work in EvE and it will not work here!

Re: Easy added incentives to beta!

Jack Jombardo wrote:

You try to hardcore nerf Alpha and I as pur Alpha player should be silence?

Gogo, bring more stupid idears.


PS: Some tip how to get more people to Beta
- do NOT gang every solo NPC-Corp guy but ask him if he like to join you
- do NOT flame every one who don't like PvP but ask him, if he provides you with mats/equip/bots if you TRY to protect him
- if you notice a new corp with few members try to ally them and provide them with prototypes if they join Beta

best advice: BE MORE FRIENDLY

Did I say anything about nerfing Alpha? No, with the exception of epi there is no reason to go to beta. By adding more risk/reward to beta you add more content to beta's, and hence the game.

You need to refer to Nex and that we do grab random people for ops. mining, pvp, pve.
We are blued with TOG, great guys, they don really pvp, its not allways about the pvp.
New corps can just ask for help also, its a 2 way street.

Best advice: dont be an asp to others that have different ideas then you do.

[16:03:43] <Mara Gossep> syndic.....and get your *** spy out of our corp

14 (edited by Jack Jombardo 2011-08-25 15:52:39)

Re: Easy added incentives to beta!

RedKGB wrote:

Allow only the MK version of bots be built on beta's.

You mean MK2 can't be build on Alpha anymore?
-> nerf Alpha

RedKGB wrote:

Allow only the new line of bots coming out in the future tobe built on beta's.

Pre-implement nerf of Alpha

RedKGB wrote:

Allow beta's to be the only place to build T4's

Nerf Alpha

RedKGB wrote:

Allow destories only to use beta to beta island transports.

Didn't we learn Cap and Super Caps are BAD by designe? Please don't do this mistake again @DEVs.

RedKGB wrote:

Corps that hold thier respective OP above 80% earn nic for the corpate wallet from 5mil to 20mil a day, for the transfering energy back thru the hole to earth.

What? Free NIC without work? Moon-Go again??? No thanks!


Yes, you asked to nerf alphas!

Re: Easy added incentives to beta!

It is my view that CIR is the new M2S of old. That CIR will use thru dipolmatic relations to attempt to be the lead corp. That CIR will thru the use of force to crush any restaince that forms, the same force as the head corp in the most powerful allaince tobe formed under the banner of war with M2S be used to wage unprovacted attacks on other corps that do not uphold the idelogy of respect to CIR.


Funny reading smile))) got any more?

Re: Easy added incentives to beta!

Mark Zima wrote:

Eve has demonstrated clearly that these kinds of incentives won't bring people to nullsec (~ beta). They'll just make the current beta dwellers more powerful, adding to a (perceived?) imbalance between alpha and beta.

With over 50k active subs, it looks like it works very well.

There should be an imbalance from alpha to beta, if beta had nothing more to offer then alpha would be over populated.

[16:03:43] <Mara Gossep> syndic.....and get your *** spy out of our corp

Re: Easy added incentives to beta!

Jack Jombardo wrote:
Neverfeldt wrote:

So you mean just group up with everyone and together we will rofl stomp them observers and finally win the game?

No.

One ally peer Beta (ideal point). And with 6 Betas you get 6 partys to fight each other.

Big powerblocks like EvE-east, former NC, Goons+Please Ignore are terrible bad. Small allys are nice as you will allways have someone to fight.

It's not the NPC stuff (mining, producing, NIC, golden eggs) which bring people to Betas.
People bring people to beta!

Once you learned this, you will have more enemys and more friends.
If you don't learn this, you will be alone for much longe time.

It is both the ingame content and the poeple that bring other people to beta.

[16:03:43] <Mara Gossep> syndic.....and get your *** spy out of our corp

Re: Easy added incentives to beta!

Jack Jombardo wrote:
Neverfeldt wrote:

Yes, as I said there needs to be more reward to equalize the risk

Sorry but this is plain wrong.

More reward means more risk as more people try to earn the better reward.

And then? Add even MORE reward so even MORE people want it and you get MORE risk?

End with ONLY reward on Beta with EVERYONE want this reward and you have JUST risk?

In german it's called "Teufelskreis". Once you add this more reward the risk will rice too. Adding again more reward to compansate the new gained risk will just rise the risk even more.

This didn't work in EvE and it will not work here!

Right now the reward for beta is what epi? The risk is death.
Add more reward, risk is still death.
Add even greater reward, risk is still death.

The only way to add more risk to have poeple come by your home and TP the house. Then you got to go clean it up. You really cant add more risk above death.

[16:03:43] <Mara Gossep> syndic.....and get your *** spy out of our corp

Re: Easy added incentives to beta!

Triglav wrote:

It is my view that CIR is the new M2S of old. That CIR will use thru dipolmatic relations to attempt to be the lead corp. That CIR will thru the use of force to crush any restaince that forms, the same force as the head corp in the most powerful allaince tobe formed under the banner of war with M2S be used to wage unprovacted attacks on other corps that do not uphold the idelogy of respect to CIR.


Funny reading smile))) got any more?


LoL, spent one day drunk, and on some pain medcinces, hell got a whole page of bs around here some where.

[16:03:43] <Mara Gossep> syndic.....and get your *** spy out of our corp

20 (edited by Jack Jombardo 2011-08-25 16:02:53)

Re: Easy added incentives to beta!

RedKGB wrote:

There should be an imbalance from alpha to beta, if beta had nothing more to offer then alpha would be over populated.

And this is your biggest mistake.

Beta allready has advantages over Alpha! And they are big enough to make people want them.

What holds new players (or guys like me) off off Beta is:
I either want to PvE OR PvP ... I don't want to be shot in the back while fighting with Tier 4+++ NPC.

So (and this is only for me) what would be needed to bring me (personal only!) to Beta is more safty ... NOT more reward!

And this safty could be provided by Players. No change by any DEV had to be made!

I said it many times and I say it again: Player bringt Player to Beta (PvP) - NOT BUFFS OR NERFS!

Right now the reward for beta is what epi? The risk is death.
Add more reward, risk is still death.
Add even greater reward, risk is still death.

Risk right now is diing every hour by random gang.
Higher rewards bring more people.
Risk then is diing every 30 minutes by random gang.
Higher rewards bring more people.
Risk then is diing every 15 minutes by random gang.

After some time you will die every time you try to shot an NPC.
And then? Add rewards for any hit you can land on an NPC? With 10 hits you earned enough money to buy a new Mesmer MK2 with equip?

Sure, you allways die ... the higher risk is to die more frequently.

Elementar and simple understanding of the mechanic.

Re: Easy added incentives to beta!

Jack Jombardo wrote:
RedKGB wrote:

Allow only the MK version of bots be built on beta's.

You mean MK2 can't be build on Alpha anymore?
-> nerf Alpha

RedKGB wrote:

Allow only the new line of bots coming out in the future tobe built on beta's.

Pre-implement nerf of Alpha

RedKGB wrote:

Allow beta's to be the only place to build T4's

Nerf Alpha

RedKGB wrote:

Allow destories only to use beta to beta island transports.

Didn't we learn Cap and Super Caps are BAD by designe? Please don't do this mistake again @DEVs.

RedKGB wrote:

Corps that hold thier respective OP above 80% earn nic for the corpate wallet from 5mil to 20mil a day, for the transfering energy back thru the hole to earth.

What? Free NIC without work? Moon-Go again??? No thanks!


Yes, you asked to nerf alphas!

Ok, I will accept that my views will nerf alpha and add more value to Betas.

Caps and SuperCaps can be hot dropped any where at any time. With only useing beta island TP's you protect alpha. By only useing TP's with no hot dropping, you can mange the risk involoved by camping the TP's. With only a few ways onto an island it will be easier to protect that island, with only a few ways off an island it is easier to bottle neck the aggressor and defend.

How is it free NIC? You have to work to keep OP above 80%. You have to have 24/7 presance to protect your OP and keep it above 80%.

The lore of the game is to get energy back to earth. earth is run by money hungry corpations. These same corpations will pay NIc for the energy.

[16:03:43] <Mara Gossep> syndic.....and get your *** spy out of our corp

Re: Easy added incentives to beta!

Jack Jombardo wrote:
RedKGB wrote:

There should be an imbalance from alpha to beta, if beta had nothing more to offer then alpha would be over populated.

And this is your biggest mistake.

Beta allready has advantages over Alpha! And they are big enough to make people want them.

What holds new players (or guys like me) off off Beta is:
I either want to PvE OR PvP ... I don't want to be shot in the back while fighting with Tier 4+++ NPC.

So (and this is only for me) what would be needed to bring me (personal only!) to Beta is more safty ... NOT more reward!

And this safty could be provided by Players. No change by any DEV had to be made!

I said it many times and I say it again: Player bringt Player to Beta (PvP) - NOT BUFFS OR NERFS!

Right now the reward for beta is what epi? The risk is death.
Add more reward, risk is still death.
Add even greater reward, risk is still death.

Risk right now is diing every hour by random gang.
Higher rewards bring more people.
Risk then is diing every 30 minutes by random gang.
Higher rewards bring more people.
Risk then is diing every 15 minutes by random gang.

After some time you will die every time you try to shot an NPC.
And then? Add rewards for any hit you can land on an NPC? With 10 hits you earned enough money to buy a new Mesmer MK2 with equip?

Sure, you allways die ... the higher risk is to die more frequently.

Elementar and simple understanding of the mechanic.

More people means more people to kill your npc mechs. More people means easier to secure the island. More people makes it more safe. Be in the same corp or allaince with them.

This is not a solo game, its a team game. Try understanding the mechanics.

[16:03:43] <Mara Gossep> syndic.....and get your *** spy out of our corp

Re: Easy added incentives to beta!

Lol send me ingame mail with it smile)))

RedKGB wrote:
Triglav wrote:

It is my view that CIR is the new M2S of old. That CIR will use thru dipolmatic relations to attempt to be the lead corp. That CIR will thru the use of force to crush any restaince that forms, the same force as the head corp in the most powerful allaince tobe formed under the banner of war with M2S be used to wage unprovacted attacks on other corps that do not uphold the idelogy of respect to CIR.


Funny reading smile))) got any more?


LoL, spent one day drunk, and on some pain medcinces, hell got a whole page of bs around here some where.

Re: Easy added incentives to beta!

RedKGB wrote:

More people means more people to kill your npc mechs. More people means easier to secure the island. More people makes it more safe. Be in the same corp or allaince with them.

This is not a solo game, its a team game. Try understanding the mechanics.

So you ask for EvE-Blob MK2 with 1000+ peer side?

And Moon-Go was the same as what you ask for. Little to no work (mostly done by BOT-third party programs) but tons of ALZ (which was sold most times by RMT).

25 (edited by RedKGB 2011-08-25 16:52:37)

Re: Easy added incentives to beta!

Jack Jombardo wrote:
RedKGB wrote:

More people means more people to kill your npc mechs. More people means easier to secure the island. More people makes it more safe. Be in the same corp or allaince with them.

This is not a solo game, its a team game. Try understanding the mechanics.

So you ask for EvE-Blob MK2 with 1000+ peer side?

And Moon-Go was the same as what you ask for. Little to no work (mostly done by BOT-third party programs) but tons of ALZ (which was sold most times by RMT).

You do know there is anti-blob mechanic in the game? How is being in a corp and an allaince a blob? You look like your reaching for straws. You dont have to go to beta, but if you do a team is better then solo.

Also moon-goo was explotied for years. Moon-goo in its current form does not. Mining is the same thing, find a belt mine, deposit, rinse and repeat.

Moon-goo, harvest a moon. You dont need to control the system, you dont need control the station.

Lore linked energy transfer back to earth, control the OP above 80%, 24 hour online time to protect OP. This game is ten times more anti-bot then eve will ever be,( even tho it is a game of bots....oh the irony...).

[16:03:43] <Mara Gossep> syndic.....and get your *** spy out of our corp