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Perpetuum Forums → Posts by AeonThePiglet
You've got to have NPC pvp space if you want players to move into conquerable space. Players need to get an idea of the logistical commitment they're making, and they need someplace where they can prove that they're able to handle pvp coming to them at any time.
It's something this game is definitely lacking, while it also has a ton of capturable outposts that are all owned by a small group of corps (many of whom have multiple).
I have an alternative suggestion.
Ditch the public market entirely and allow corps to sell access to their internal markets. Every order on that market is tagged by that corp, and if you buy access to multiple markets you can see them all simultaneously (with their corp tags). Corps can set the fee for access at anywhere from 0 to infinity. They can also set different prices at different relationship levels (so you could make it such that people set -5 pay 10mil for access, and people set -10 can't buy access at all, while people at +10 have automatic access). Or you can just deny access to everyone. Whatever!
You'd also be able to set a renewal period for the access (anywhere from a day to a year), or just set the period to infinite.
A corp could also buy access for its members by paying the fee times the number of members they've on average had in the last thirty days.
Players could click a button that shows all inaccessible orders, and the price/volume tracking function could be set to show the results of all transactions in an outpost, only transactions in markets you can use, or only your market.
I think this feature would help alliances and indy corps the most. Indy corps would be able to engage in outright competition, negotiating deals for their minerals and setting people red who annoy their miners (locking them out from buying the minerals entirely). A good market would provide a hefty sum to the corp wallet in the form of access purchasing, but newbies wouldn't be excluded entirely from the market (with said feature, NEX would probably sell neutrals access for a very minimal sum).
Use NPC b/s orders in newbie corp markets (taxed at anywhere from 1% to 5%) to cover the gap, and allow vets to buy access (for a nominal fee, say 50k nic) to said newbie corps to list things there.
All in all I think this would be a _very_ cool feature.
It'd give indy corps something to do and fight over (you won't sell us access? We'll set you red to lock you out and also bribe other corps to do the same, so ha!) without having to shoot one another, and would allow better and easier collaboration between corps in an alliance, who'd no longer have to deal with a fragmented market (they could set each other green and set green to automatic market access, creating an instant shared market). Finally, it'd provide corps with an incentive to increase market activity and a means of earning income from their members without those members having to mission or donate.
I mean, good god. This is something that would be so easy to do in this game (95% of it is already there, just gotta add a few more features and voila) and would enormously increase the fun of market pvp! It'd be more like Patrician than EVE!
Whatcha think? Should I open a suggestion thread?
The three islands named in the title should:
I. Have two or three of their outposts removed (Hokk and Kent should be flipped, quality and outpost wise)
II. Have the last outpost held by an npc corp, with players unable to capture it
III. Have the spawns near the TP and the outpost reduced in strength to tier 2 lights and assaults
IV. Have the spawns, plants and exploitable field quality reduced so that they sit between the beta islands that can be captured and above the alpah 2 islands
V. Have their internal TPs removed (with highways broken into sections with large gaps between them connecting the outposts and the external TPs)
I: There are an excessive number of outposts on all three islands (pretend that Kent and Hokk have been switched wrt outposts). Reducing the number would increase player density at the one or two remaining outposts, providing more opportunities for pvp.
II: No one lives on any of these islands in significant numbers. We roam all three regularly and they are zombie at pretty much all hours. Some people probably live there, but they're not active enough to make them interesting targets. Turning these areas into "freeports" would make them more interesting to new corps and players looking for a place to live on beta where they'd always be able to dock.
III: These islands should be more for new players to get their feet wet in a pvp zone. As such they need stuff that they can farm easily. It also ensures that older players will have to move further from the safe zone that is the termial or tps, making them more vulnerable. NPC 0.0 serves a similar function in EVE, and has been the launching point for many a future infamous corp (the most notable, of course, being Goonswarm)
IV: These should be lower quality than capturable betas because players are not at risk of being locked out from their stuff. They should also have lower quality so that players are motivated to attack and take the better islands from their enemies
V: Internal TPs should go to reduce the ability of players to travel at high speed about the island. They're not good for pvp (gate camping is lame) and they're not good for pve (because they serve as focal points for ratting and thus hunting ratters). Broken up highways would prove a concentration point for travel that would serve the same focus of generating pvp by having an obvious transit location. Breaking them into sections (preferably with cover so that fights in those spots can be more entertaining) reduces the average speed of travel and makes cross country routes viable (allowing the crafty player to dodge pursuit or ambush with a circuitous route).
Summary: Re-purposing infrequently used betas into incubators for new corps who want to pvp but cannot capture an outpost from a current holder (or for older corps that want to pvp without the hassle of politics and taking an outpost) would increase player density on beta and provide more regular and frequent pvp. It would also create more competition over the existing outposts that can be captured, as they'd be reduced from 15 to 6, increasing the tempo and importance of sov fights. Finally these areas would provide a staging point for alpha industrial corps that wish to mine epi but don't have a viable staging point.
For these and many other reasons the islands named above should be changed in the fashion described here.
Norhoop, Dom and Kent could all be turned into npc beta islands with one outpost and no one would make the slightest complaint. All three are zombie, why _not_ just make them open to the general public rather than potentially owned by players? In EVE, the npc 0.0 regions are chock full of smaller or newer corps learning the ropes out on beta.
I'd also like it if there was more variety in the spawns on the beta islands. It's all well and good that there are a goodly number of hefty spawns with lots of goodies, but if you want newbies to move to beta there needs to be a few low level small number spawns available for farming. We'd have moved out to beta week one if it weren't the case that all the spawns are full of big bad mobs that *** newbies to death with their cold metal schlongs.
I'm in favor of trial accounts having no limitations other than a max size of assault bot and an inability to whisper or create channels. They should be able to do everything else just fine so that new players get a better idea what exactly goes on in the game.
I'd also like it if mechs required some level of competence in the skills related to their use, like 5 in adv faction specific guns and support skills!
We exploit the mechanisms available to us. Why spend EP to gain exactly what we get out of the corporate market? Silliness in the extreme!
At the least let us set up a tax system on said market so that we can tax transactions on it and gain the revenue for the corp. It'd make the whole thing very much so more interesting!
Plenty of our guys run missions solo on beta. I've run a few, but missioning in general is not really my bag.
Most of beta is very quiet and you'll only occasionally be at risk even in pvp hot spots. If you're careful and you know the tz and the roaming gangs that come through you can usually work things so that you're never at risk.
Heck, I've solo mined epi on both Hokk and Nova without ever losing a bot because I know the zones, the activity levels at various tzs and I'm careful. You're actually at less risk doing missions because many people don't know the mission spots, while every pvper worth his salt knows the location of the epi fields on his preferred islands.
So while I wouldn't recommend mining epi on islands we roam (we will probably get you, it's kinda inevitable at this point; one dude has given up mining with his alts we've killed him so many times) you could easily run missions without most people spotting you.
You can always just bribe us to leave you alone, we're very corruptible 
Yes, a crushing advantage. After all, we'll have less ep, less tech, less experience, no beta island (currently) and no significant pvp allies but we WILL have our black market!
Clearly we need a nerfing.
Sure I wouldn't mind an orca style mech, but it should have limited cargo capacity unless deployed, shouldn't be able to exchange gear while not deployed, should take a minute to deploy/undeploy, and can't undeploy if it has more cargo than it could ordinarily move.
That way you could use it as a mobile can but would still need haulers to empty it regularly and couldn't just keep it in motion all the time.
Bunch of copy cats if you ask me.
NEX: we're on your internets, toppin your search results!
We're still stocking the market very heavily. We just keep stuff that we already entirely consume (t3 lwf? t4 lwf!) in house. So you'll see our t4 universals on the market, but you won't see our t1 l demobs because we use them up so fast.
That said, the high tax rates make it so that we've got a TON of industrial buying and selling going on in house. You can't afford to lose ten percent of a transaction to the ether on minerals as a miner -- even if you're mining epi!
In fact, just last weekend me and three other dudes sold ~50m nic worth of epi through a direct transaction and saved a fortune on tax while still getting market rates. Delish!
Lower tax, higher volume. And corp markets probably do belong in the dust bin of history until things improve, tbqfh.
Being able to generate some random amount of NIC a day, month or year doesn't mean there isn't a fundamental problem with the market, only that there are ways to work it regardless.
The problem as I see it comes down to a big game market model being shoved into a small population game. That's it. Entire production cycle, from research to prototyping to manufacturing to sale would work fine in a large game with a sizable chunk of population falling outside of special handshake market clubs and self sufficient corps. This game just isn't there yet. Internal markets, high taxes, limited buy/sell orders, etc. simply compound the problem by further depleting the pool of available buyers and sellers. Add the kernel research cluster**** and you have what we have now - slow, understocked market with only a few select areas that allow for fast turnover. It's workable for more advanced producers, outright punishing to newbies and frustrating to those in between.
Yeah you are pretty right about this.
The system, oddly enough, needed less granularity. It would have worked better that way, especially if t2 and niani were top of the line and the other stuff released when numbers were hitting 1k nightly. Might have burned out some vets but would have meant a more fluid landscape (market and pvp). As is scale is rewarded above all, but scale doesn't exist yet.
I personally think allowing alts into the Corp to simply allow them access to the Corp market is a bad idea. Also it then shows that being in the Corp I'm not getting any cheaper prices on my gear, and the mining / kernel donations are feeding alts in other Corps... WTF
Soz i hope i read all this right
Don't forget that they're also in there to sell to us. They have tech, we have tech. Mutual exchange program.
As far as cheap, you can tell which stuff is subsidized straight off the bat. Anything several hundred k lower than prevailing prices eats corp nic. We need more mission runners to keep up with it, and more people donating mods to be converted.
But straight up with a lower tax rate we'd be getting good deals on the open market far more frequently and could save a bundle on subsidizing indy that could be spent on fun stuff for the corp. Like lower taxes and pvp reimbursement and the like.
And so our fellow newbies can see what we dealt with.
"we use better fits, yours are bad"
"so show us your fits"
"sekrit but yours are bad"
The same basic conversation happens when it comes to higher tech gear on the market.
The fits we used are light on ep and fitting skills. They were also able to get the job done. We'll keep evaluating them, but we're not afraid to share our fits with the world just like we're not afraid to share our tech. Feel free to provide better ones, but if all you have to say is omg baed it's not very useful to anyone.
Why do we fit demobs on our lights? We need tackle, and more tackle is better. many newbies can't fit a demob and four guns, so even that isn't always an option. Why did we fit ewar on our assaults? Because we needed a platform to provide it that could lock fast. Lights can bring damps too, but the locking range of lights with newbie skills is too low for that to be viable without an amp, which they can't bring together.
I think a lot of people look at our fits and forget what prices were like when we first started. Fittings had to be cheap enough to be affordable while still being effective. And also that newbies have a hell of a time fitting anything at all.
Actually this thread gave me an idea. I'm probably going to list a bunch of Syntec miners for 100k on our market, have proceeds go to corp wallet and call that our nic donation button.
ME SO CWAFTY!!!
We have some very strenuous joining requirements.
You must have at least 1 ep. If you have 2 ep, we will be super impressed.
You must be willing to eat the occasional crayon. We like crayons, they're tasty. Purple > Pink > all, flavor wise.
You must loooooove exploding. Also explosions. Pretty much everything. We're newbies and we're fighting gangs of people who have had nothing to do but sit around and fap on a giant pile of time, so we're kinda outclassed. But so what! The losses are cheap, the wins are awesome and we roam roam roam.
Ok, so you can also carebear or mine or build or something, whatever. We're capitalist pigdogs, do what you want. We won't yell at you if all you do is sit there for 24hrs a day and ship spin. And there are pve ops and stuff where people go farm farm farm and they make oodles. Or you can x up for an epi op and make ~fatloads~ my favorite way to pve!
You must not be a *** or super uptight. We're all goofballs, and if you hate fun and laughter you will probably hate us all and then cry tears of star while you shred your wrists with a six bladed razor. We don't want to cause the death of anyone, even by accident, so please be sure to talk to your therapist before applying if you have a case of Internet Robots Is Serious Business Syndrome (IRISBS).
Like, we don't intentionally screw stuff up, but if someone suggests we have a race we're probably gonna drop what we're doing and have a race. The other day we were like THUNDERDOME so we had a bunch of blue on blue action. It's about fun!
Do we get stuff done? Oh yeah. Our internal market is _stocked_. Our pvp is like non stop. We kill mechs with lights! We're boss like that. But if you're like "MINING CTA FOR THE NEXT 8 HRS ALL HANDS ON DECK TITAN AHOY" you're gonna get a lot of middle fingers while we pass around pony pictures.
Oh and you have to not be all angry when people swear. People swear on our teamspeak. It happens, get over it.
What do you get out of it? Uh, good question. I guess a place to hang out and buy stuff cheap and not be part of the Red v Blue mentality that is the rest of the beta part of the server. We're not Red or Blue, we're Purple or more likely brown because we got excited mixing all the colors!
Don't just drop an app though, come hang out in our ts: captobvio.us
It usually has people (and late EST it has me!) and you'll get a good idea if we're for you if you're in there and you like what you hear. And you probably will because if you don't we'll shank you, see what I mean? We've had several server old farts show up once and end up joining because, well, we're fun and we fight a lot and we don't much care if we lose.
If you're ex-EVE even better, because we're the New Eden Exiles and we're from there. So you can be like "Oh hey remember stEVE?" And we'll be like "CURSE YOU HILMAAAAAAR". Which, really, explains how we can get anything done without us being all serious business.
Also we're friends with TOG (for the olds) and War Dec (for the ~elitepvp~) so if you want a different environment but still like roaming with us you can probably join them.
It's not a good idea because it's really just a request for a version of sensor maskers that hide you better and do less damage to your speed. EVE cloaks drop you to 10% of your speed, gobble fitting and won't let you warp or activate modules while you have them active (unless it's a covops cloak on a covops ship, in which case you get to ninja around on ships with all the tank of butter except for uuuuungh the Pilgrim).
If you want maskers to work better, ask for maskers to get a slight buff. I wouldn't mind! But a module where the enemy has to be 100m away to detect is really just a request for invisible gate scouts so that they don't need to be replaced.
Yes, it's clear allready. You try to ninja "help for new producers" for your "more people to beta". I smelled it the while reading your first post about this change.
Hell, do you even care about the new producer at all?
Or is all you want to have more Arganos to shot who can't defend themselve?
Hi, welcome to Perpetuum. Clearly you do not know who NEX is or what we are about. Please take a look at our recent kills. Then click lights and count the Argano kills. Don't worry, it'll be pretty easy because out of almost two hundred kills (in barely over one month, mind) the Argano kill count. Then shut your face.
http://www.perp-kill.net/?m=corp&co … view=kills
I am also proud of this particular kill, and will always be proud of this particular kill because we did it at like two weeks old: http://www.perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=1480
I don't want to kill Arganos. They're boring because they don't fight back. I want to kill the people protecting the Arganos. If an Argano has the temerity to sit about on a beta in my presence, unprotected, I'll of course kill it. But actively look for one would be like actively looking for something to jab in my eye.
Your corp, on the other hand, has a far higher ratio of industrials to combats. About half of your eight kills over the past, uh, ever? http://www.perp-kill.net/?m=corp&co … 20Tomorrow
So yeah. There's that. Hey I support your trying, and if your guys wanna come on our roams lemme know. We take damn near everyone because lol why not. We'll shoot whatever ain't in gang, and we'll only shoot those _in_ gang if we get really REALLY bored.
I DO on the other hand ninja epi on my alt on beta. Surprise.
I think people should go to beta because this game's combat zones are fairly safe for people who aren't doing silly things like entering through a major route or sitting about on a tp fapping. So go out there and do stuff because the money is good, the losses are minimal and the challenge of sneaking about in a bot that's the game equivalent of a siren screaming kill me is pretty entertaining.
No.
There's no reason to have this module in the game. The range is too short, the speed loss is too low.
EWAR bots are EWAR bots. They're supposed to be great at EWAR and difficult for a non-scout to detect. You can use them as stealth recon (we've done it a couple times, they can generally evade stuff that can see them without too much trouble) or in their normal role.
Lights as scouts with detectors fit makes perfect sense. A short range bot with little armor, low dps and few slots with speed equivalent to a mech is not a viable option for in your face pvp except in large numbers (how we use them) or as a poor man's tacklebot -- ewar should be slower, btw, and mechs should be worse at hitting light class bots (lower surface area). Scout is the only role they're best at and, frankly, a mech does it better thanks to being able to combat fit while wearing a detector.
Bots in general need love relative to mechs. A bit more oomph and they'll be just right. Twenty more points of masking on the assault and 15kph more base speed on the light and we're close to bingo.
Just a thought about game balance. Lots of people cite it as reasoning for or against one idea or another. If fact, in an MMO where anyone can train any skill, balance really isn't an issue because, if something is more powerful one can simply implement the same items on their behalf to deal with the opponent. We're not like WoW (which I'm absolutely NOT here to bash, btw) where there are clearly defined class limits that prevent a player's certain character from using e-peen super weapon x or pwnurfacej00n00bz nuke spell y.
So I say +1 to this.
This argument is awful.
No, that's not how a pvp game works. When you make it so that one fit is awesome and the best option for doing something, it becomes the _only_ option for doing something because everyone else will do that thing in that fit and you will either lose to them or change to the fit that is overpowered.
If missiles ignored los and had the longest range and best DPS no one would use lasers or blasters unless they liked dying or only played pve -- and even then they'd eventually switch to the obviously superior weapon.
Everyone else will eventually do it is balance through eliminating all choice.
I would have thought that the biggest problem would be if they did this, what do they then do with the bitcoin afterward? As far as I know server space cant be rented with bitcoin and im pretty sure most employees would get a little upset if they were paid with bitcoin.. I'm not saying bitcoin is bad but if you have to convert it to another currency to use it then why would they offer this service (which will cost them real money)?
Correct. Real money can be exchanged for goods and services. Bitcoins can be exchanged for goods that never arrive and services like, uh, oh yeah, being changed into real currency for a loss.
There's no reason the devs should be subjected to this joke currency. Nor should they have to bear the exchange rate risk. You want to pay with bitcoins, you do it by exchanging them for an actual currency and paying in that.
Problem solved!
I don't think field containers existed back then. Mind you I wasn't around to know, but I'm under the impression that the feature is rather newer. I was just curious if this was a valid way to share items without dragging a corp storage area into the matter.
I guess I should just go try it rather than ask someone about it since the first thing people do is complain about a thread being too old. Nevermind the information; let's not read that. Instead, let's focus exclusively on the date because that's the only thing that matters! It's a good thing we're not date stamping the design of the bots in the game. If we knew they were more than 4 months old, we'd invalidate them completely and demand the devs make us new ones. I don't mean to be grumpy, but why is this something to get so flustered about?
A) this is your billionth troll necro
B) All of the legit responses mentioned field cans
C) You were just pretending to continue the discussion rather than actually asking a question relevant to the thread.
You need to stop this. It isn't funny, it isn't good trolling. It's just you being an annoying attention ***.
T2 assaults are pretty awesome in pvp. Fastest option. T3/t4 will range and damage better, but you can outrun the buggers if you have a t4 lwf on there
From what I'm hearing Shinj is now a Perp boomtown, crowded with people to the point that we can't really form up outside anymore for PVP.
A few weeks ago we were hauling stuff out there and the highway was empty for miles. Now it's packed! People off of it on every side killing stuff and mining and what not.
Anyone around who's peeking at the market, I'd love it if you could give me an update on how it looks out there.
Well shinj feels packed and beta has enough people to entertain without being overwhelming so I'm happy.
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