Oh yes, how could I forget...

It was bad long before walls though.

The thing is that killing miners isn't really PvP.  It's PvHP (Player vs Helpless Player or Player vs Hit Points on the industrial bot).  What is needed for a fun game is for there to be fights between foes of comparable ability and some kind of benefit for the winner (other than looting the enemy's red-damaged T1 armor plate)

Sundial, that's exactly what I'm talking about.  I remember roaming for hours and not finding anything even when the population was high.  It's a problem that's been there from the start.

Imo the fundamental reason for it is that people have nothing to gain (in terms of resources/NIC) by running around beta in pvp fit bots. 

When people do need to do missions or mine they group up and use detectors, scouts and probes to be almost 100% safe.  This may be more "realistic" but it doesn't make for a fun game.

I'm not saying we should make mining or regular mission running risky at this point because most people (even vets) can't afford to lose their mining or mission running bots (since they are such a logistical pain to replace).  What I'm suggesting is that there should be rewards for people who are willing to risk relatively cheaply fit pvp bots. 

At the moment that kind of casual pvp is punished in two ways:
1) you don't win anything.
2) odds are you won't even find a fight and will simply have wasted hours of your time.

Perpetuum has immense potential but new players are rightly skeptical given the ridiculous amount of time you need to spend grinding compared to the time you may spend doing something exciting.

Seeding may be a necessary evil at this point.

Perhaps i should add that imo turrets should also have a reinforcement timer (but ofc shut down when they are reinforced).

The whole point is that defenders shouldn't lose stuff while they sleep but at the same time the defences shouldn't be invincible.

A very helpful summary, thanks.

So what you are saying is that the view distance should be constant and based only on the bot doing the detecting, not on the bot being detected?

Because at the moment it works like this:
http://www.perpetuum-online.com/Help:Si … nd_masking

Imo detector modules are far too powerful as they are.  It's possible to scout a whole island in a short period of time with a single light detector.  It's also another (practically) compulsory module for any gang to have as without it you are at a huge disadvantage.

You know you can change the size of the white circle right?

What do you mean by "base view"?  Currently the distance at which you see bots depends on the ratio of your signal detection to their signal masking.

So are you suggesting that detector modules should be removed?

Best post I've seen in a long time.  Devs please pay attention

Now that's a cool idea.

Although if it was to be introduced I think it would need to be done in such a way as to make producing things easier (ie reduce the time and material requirements for production).  Otherwise it would just be another barrier to getting products on the market and we all know how well that's doing atm.

The hybrid system sounds like fun.  Maybe its so late that it's no longer too late.  It seems to me that things are so dire that radical changes are justified.  It's not like the DEVs shy away from big changes when introducing new stuff.  In that other game anyone could make a character, spend some SP and become an effective producer (yes i know this for a fact because i didn't have to pay real money for that game).  Here the barrier to entry is so painfully huge it's hardly surprising that the whole server relies on a handful of people for their gear. 

Perhaps getting access to the research could be relatively easy but kernels would subsequently improve efficiency as suggested previously

Imo the detection mechanic needs an overhaul.  The ping should come from the bot activating the detector and be seen by everyone else...

Yeah the NPC & turret thing is odd too.  Ideally turrets should shoot NPCs and NPCs should avoid turrets (rather than just drop free loot all the time).  However I imagine there would be a few technical difficulties in implementing that?

I have to say I love idea of being able to terraform anywhere on an island but given the way things are in the game atm I think the most realistic solution would be to only allow terraforming in the vicinity of a terminal.  That would lead to people building right next to the ocean though, which is why I would still suggest that there should be a non-terraformable boundary near the sea.