Topic: Niche oppurtunity for Perpetuum

Perpetuum has an oppurtunity to capture a niche market and one that has been sorely missed since the earlier (golden) days of Star Wars Galaxies. 'The best crafting system in MMOs.'

I've taken a big interest in crafting-hevay MMOs recently and all the research I have done has lead me to tales of how epic SW:G was as far as crafting went. It was suprising to me  that everywhere I look, it's ranked #1, hands-down and is followed by the wails of those that want those days back and gnashing of teeth at how no developer has sought to emulate it, or even come close.

The things that set them apart were material quality and material diversity for produced items. Throw in equipment item degradation for a perpetual demand and a near entirely player-created item base and you had a game that catered to crafters. However, there were many more benefits to this.

Materials came from far away places and varied in quality. Finding higher quality would give harvesters 'jackpot!' moments. Higher quality final products fetch higher prices and the rarity of higher quality base resources would make  these higher quality final products even more rare and valuable. Having a higher-quality item actually function at a higher rate continues to drive demand for those PVP'ers who wnat to absolute best.

That products took so much to build meant that you could specialize in only one part of an critical item's creation. People became known for producing high quality or very low priced items. People getting a name for themselves in something drives personal stake in a game.

I think that a change like this would be difficult for Perpetuum to make, however it is definately a selling point and a way to advertise it as being 'better-than'. Something like being known as the best crafting game out there would bring a wealth of players. My two cents, and the hope that it's at least thought about by Devs who want to reach for the stars.

A beginning in Perpetuum.

Re: Niche oppurtunity for Perpetuum

This crafting system is not exclusive too SWG. Wurm Online has exactly same system you described. I like this crafting system it nice, but also create it own problems at how tedious and complicated it is, market valuation is also a hassle.

RIP PERPETUUM

3 (edited by Ludlow Bursar 2012-07-24 12:32:08)

Re: Niche oppurtunity for Perpetuum

I'd like to see a new stage to robot construction.

I'd like to see them made from components and commodities. For example, weapon mountings, drive motors, circuit boards, resistance plating (factional commodities can come in here), hydraulic joints etc.

The thinking here is that newer players would have more market opportunities and, since components would effectively compress materials, building bots on Beta and Gamma would not require quite so many scarabs full of ore to be shipped to the higher point facilities.

Re: Niche oppurtunity for Perpetuum

Excellant thread!  May be too much code to inject in game but quality in crafting is definately lacking. 



+1

Lonwolf
NSE
"What we do in life, echoes into eternity!" --Gladiator

Re: Niche oppurtunity for Perpetuum

Anyone remember ffxi crafting system?  That used to make me cringe.  Side note good post.

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

Re: Niche oppurtunity for Perpetuum

to make that clear - items had different stats depending on the crafters experience in that game you described?

wont happen here due to database limitations.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

7 (edited by Crunchtime 2012-07-25 12:53:49)

Re: Niche oppurtunity for Perpetuum

Aye, that was a worry of mine. Doesn't hurt to put the request in though. Perpetuum looks to have one of the better crafting systems already; it was posted on another board and was what brought me here. Driving product demand is likely more important at this stage anyways; if you have no one to sell to, the crafting/economic system is moot.

One of the thoughts was that having some natural trading routes using some NPC generated resources. Foodstuffs, fuels, energy, etc. Something to drive a transportation system which would then become an attraction for 'pirates'. Drive PVP, add some more combat interest in the game. More fun, more danger, more destruction. Hopefully then, more players, more demand for parts and resources.

At that point then a quality system makes more sense to implement, both time and money-wise. I see people specializing in just finding the mining nodes and selling the info to corps, corps specializing in making particular parts (we'd need to have the skills adjusted as well so one person could not cover a whole production cycle), protetcion rackets or security corps to protect traders on runs, etc, etc.

When you have a larger playerbase, database restrictions might be less of an issue when you have the admirable problem of cash on hand and Devs with time on their hands.

A beginning in Perpetuum.

8 (edited by Crunchtime 2012-07-25 13:09:02)

Re: Niche oppurtunity for Perpetuum

Celebro wrote:

This crafting system is not exclusive too SWG. Wurm Online has exactly same system you described. I like this crafting system it nice, but also create it own problems at how tedious and complicated it is, market valuation is also a hassle.

Aye, it does. The only reason I would have ever heard about it and tried is due to that crafting system being what it is. The same goes for Perpetuum. I'm just a bit disheartened at having a good system ala EVE's at play here and no market to really go with it. The playerbase needs to grow and that will require advertising and word of mouth. I saw what was in place here and they're way ahead of many other MMOs. I figured having that moniker of best crafting system in MMOs would be a great selling point.

As far as complexity goes, yes, it's complex. Crafters as a general whole, enjoy comlex systems. It adds to the sense of accomplishment and the end value of their products. Adding more complexity would be a good thing in my mind.

I think of this like the New World, and we're all colonists in the Americas in the 1500s. If we make the system lucrative enough, people getting rich through a marvelous trading/crafting system, more traders/crafters will come. These 'herbivores' will get fat and their wealth coveted. This brings in the scavengers first and then the predators looking to make a quick and easy buck taking from others. Nations compete for resources. Pirating begins in force and combat becomes prominent both in a attacking and defending what you own. Whole industries spring up around feeding the needs of the economy. Word spreads that it's both challenging, complicated and fun. Playerbase increases further, adding more demand and supply.

It might be a logshot to get these things all together, but it's what I see as a viable path forward for a very promising MMO with many of the parts already available.

A beginning in Perpetuum.

Re: Niche oppurtunity for Perpetuum

By the way, I thank you all so far for not laughing or trolling me out of the forums.

A beginning in Perpetuum.

Re: Niche oppurtunity for Perpetuum

Ludlow Bursar wrote:

I'd like to see a new stage to robot construction.

I'd like to see them made from components and commodities. For example, weapon mountings, drive motors, circuit boards, resistance plating (factional commodities can come in here), hydraulic joints etc.

The thinking here is that newer players would have more market opportunities and, since components would effectively compress materials, building bots on Beta and Gamma would not require quite so many scarabs full of ore to be shipped to the higher point facilities.

Agreed. More skills on the skill tree to go with it as well. A new player loves the thought of coming into a new game and having a demand for them. When they ask, 'What is needed?', and there is a niche for them to fill, it can really drive the new player experience forward.

A beginning in Perpetuum.

Re: Niche oppurtunity for Perpetuum

Lonwolf wrote:

Excellant thread!  May be too much code to inject in game but quality in crafting is definately lacking. 



+1

Thank you. It would be quite a bit of code to inject. However, how much code do you think player-built structures took to inject? While I'm all for that ... players sense of ownership and stake in the game is a great way to help againt people leaving the game ...  I think a revamp of the construction and trading system brings in new players.

A beginning in Perpetuum.

Re: Niche oppurtunity for Perpetuum

I think most of the ideas here are bad ones but that notwithstanding you're nearly 2 years too late.  This isn't really an MMO it's a sub based experiment .. one that is appears to be ending soon.

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: Niche oppurtunity for Perpetuum

Unfortunately these types of MMOs rely on a good group of players, really determined to launch it into the mainstream (Devs cannot do it on their own).  Both forums and in-game are just been full of epeen, trolls and grinding content as fast as possible, whilst removing their competitors. Specially from certain group of players who unfortunately don't really care much about the success of this game.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Niche oppurtunity for Perpetuum

I agree, some people don't care about this game, otherwise we would have more gf's and gl's.
Today we have good trolls and good forum pvp only.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: Niche oppurtunity for Perpetuum

Celebro wrote:

Unfortunately these types of MMOs rely on a good group of players, really determined to launch it into the mainstream (Devs cannot do it on their own).  Both forums and in-game are just been full of epeen, trolls and grinding content as fast as possible, whilst removing their competitors. Specially from certain group of players who unfortunately don't really care much about the success of this game.

Ingame PvP is what kept this game alive for as long as it did. It kept the market moving, it kept the players interested in fighting for their cause, it gave meaning to otherwise meaningless actions. Don't blame any specific group of players because pretty much everyone did things like this and they were not wrong or "killing the game". They were creating content and playing the game as intended.

The problem with Perpetuum is as groups of players left no one came to replace them. The numbers just went down besides the EVE exodus and Statecorp. Playing the game as intended causes a certain amount of rage quitting naturally. There has to be a loser for their to be a winner. Anyways, most of the people who quit the game in the end didn't quit because they failed in their objectives or lost a war; they quit because the population only went one way: down.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: Niche oppurtunity for Perpetuum

Crepitus wrote:

I think most of the ideas here are bad ones but that notwithstanding you're nearly 2 years too late.  This isn't really an MMO it's a sub based experiment .. one that is appears to be ending soon.

A bad idea would suggest that it would be more detrimental than beneficial. Could you shed some light on what I overlooked so we can attempt to improve it?

A beginning in Perpetuum.

Re: Niche oppurtunity for Perpetuum

The game is PvP based hardcore. The reason for NPCs running around... sorry, standing around, a backstory and dividing the gameworld into 3x2 factions has to be found (how many factions does EVE have?:fuuu:)

Its build around several hundred of players, where each individual charactor logged in can only fulfill the one and only role he got his EP spent on. And even if he has subscribed long enough to maximize all extensions of different roles - he shall never be able to use them at the same time on the same bot. god forbid omnimechs...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Niche oppurtunity for Perpetuum

Celebro wrote:

Unfortunately these types of MMOs rely on a good group of players, really determined to launch it into the mainstream (Devs cannot do it on their own).  Both forums and in-game are just been full of epeen, trolls and grinding content as fast as possible, whilst removing their competitors. Specially from certain group of players who unfortunately don't really care much about the success of this game.

Most games have various 'types' of players with different motivation. You accept what you have and try to get more to continue the financial stability of the MMO while working on providing better content and more options for which to draw new types of player. That, in part, is one of the goals of my suggestion. Good players play good games. They don't let people get to them; they've seen enough trolling to know better and dismiss it. They don't let a setback deter them; they love the game and they overcome.

Give them a reason to love the game and they will come and stay. Make the game the best at something that strongly appeals to them.

A beginning in Perpetuum.

19 (edited by Gremrod 2012-07-25 19:26:32)

Re: Niche oppurtunity for Perpetuum

Right now I think the DEVs need to focus on items that are low in complexity and have a high value. I am not saying that the OPs idea has a low value. It is a high complex feature with a possible high value.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Niche oppurtunity for Perpetuum

That does sound reasonable.

A beginning in Perpetuum.

Re: Niche oppurtunity for Perpetuum

Ludlow Bursar wrote:

I'd like to see a new stage to robot construction.

I'd like to see them made from components and commodities. For example, weapon mountings, drive motors, circuit boards, resistance plating (factional commodities can come in here), hydraulic joints etc.

The thinking here is that newer players would have more market opportunities and, since components would effectively compress materials, building bots on Beta and Gamma would not require quite so many scarabs full of ore to be shipped to the higher point facilities.

Now that's a cool idea.

Although if it was to be introduced I think it would need to be done in such a way as to make producing things easier (ie reduce the time and material requirements for production).  Otherwise it would just be another barrier to getting products on the market and we all know how well that's doing atm.

+1
-Confucius

22 (edited by Annihilator 2012-07-26 17:09:13)

Re: Niche oppurtunity for Perpetuum

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … iscussion/
http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … ototyping/

some old topics, where you can re-read older comments about the systems... like "leave it be as it is"

im pretty sure somewhere i have a topic open about crafting equip and robots from parts, not refined materials only:

armor plate
+ cpu
+ reactor
+ duct tape... i mean plasteosine
+ factional armor hardener
+ factional tuning

= robot

most of those modules are either t1 loot that you get in masses, or knowledge base entries that noone ever crafts because never used

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear