Topic: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

The newest devblog lists our proposed solutions for the issues raised in the recent DEV-Player conference.

http://blog.perpetuum-online.com/posts/ … -proposal/

UPDATE:
There is a big post with answers here.

2 (edited by Burial 2012-07-10 14:21:03)

Re: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

Can't wait to be honest. Steps to the right direction!


If I understand right, Spark teleport will not have any time restriction and only some "fee"? If so then it's good. Please don't time-restrict it.

3 (edited by Line 2012-07-10 14:33:25)

Re: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

  • will all the current TF and buildings on gammas stay as they are in that 2km no-build area until destroyed or there will be any reimbursement?

  • any solutions of gamma-npc do always stuck? same for non-gamma npc

  • new tiers and robot variants - that's T5 and Mk3?

  • which auras will be accessible in MPC Aura buildings?

  • will there be elite versions of industrial bots on gammas?

  • will turrets shoot those who are attacking other buildings, not only the turrets itself?

  • what happens if someone looses/stole/destroy private transport container?

  • will only the Main Terminals be immune on those 72 hours?

Have a productive day, runner!
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Re: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

Based on what's been said in the meeting, these are very good steps. Nothing too extreme, bar the multi-phase emergency mode. Be careful with that one.

Re: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

These suggestions, when / if implemented, will essentially give the players who invested huge amounts of time and effort to achieve a Gamma outpost and defend it only a 80% nic kick back.  Big whoop!

Many of these suggestions also seem to indicate possible room for exploitation.  Sad, but true.  Oh well - nothing is perfect.

Good effort making a good effort!   *derp*

Some people play checkers, some play chess...  Once in a while you can find a guy playing GO.  The former is prey, the secondary is a teacher, and the latter is a general.

Re: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

Hi,

Are current produced blocks being increased to reimburse for the new value of 5x multiplier on creation as opposed to the old values.

Issue: Not enough to do / not enough rewards on gamma islands.
Double the number of normal military and industrial roaming NPC spawns on gamma.
Add an elite NPC into roaming spawns on gamma.
Remove level 1 artifacts from gamma, keep spawning only level 2 and 3. Make artifacts spawn only on passable terrain.

I am not a bug exterminator force, but on a side note double of 0 is 0.

Implement multi-phase emergency mode for main terminals only: this is somewhat similar to how beta outpost intrusions work. Depending on the technology level of the terminal, it has a counter of 3 to 5 times (for standard, advanced and hi-tech terminals respectively) when it can subsequently enter emergency mode. Every time the terminal goes into emergency mode, this counter decreases, and every time a phase passes without emergency (2 days), the counter increases. Once the counter reaches zero (ie. it enters the last possible emergency phase), the terminal becomes destroyable after the last emergency phase, like it is currently. Thus the worst case scenario (ie. not even one successful defense in between) for a standard main terminal would be 3 times 2 days (plus the set emergency offset time), so around 7-9 days.

Again this is not my second job and 90% of the battles over 30+ players to each side are well over a hour long so 2 hours may be cutting it close.

But steps in the right direction.

Undefeated 2013
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Re: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

Burial wrote:

If I understand right, Spark teleport will not have any time restriction and only some "fee"? If so then it's good. Please don't time-restrict it.

The only cooldown is the same deployment timer that we have now. However the number of targets will be limited by a new extension (10 max). You are able to remotely delete targets.

Re: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

While we're discussing changes: do we really need molecular instability on alpha now? Travel times are long as it is, and reducing or abolishing the instability on alpha would be a good step towards making trips/deliveries less painful.

Re: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

Really like the changes! 

With Spark teleport - don't make it too easy and too quick -   do we want to see people able to move back and forth from offence to defence too quickly using pre-positioned fleets of mechs?  The one good thing about CIR camping an island is that their island is undefended!

If we're advocating that - then I say go for it!  Just be intentional about it.

Re: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

2 Ville2012-07-10 15:19:05
Will corps that have buildings in that 2k radius get a full refund for what was already built?3 Ville2012-07-10 15:21:26
So spark teleport can send you to anywhere? Even player built structures and those outposts your locked out of?

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Re: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

Ville ... Zoom  said "you are remotely able to delete targets", but I think you need to be in a terminal to place targets.  Thus upon implementation, you cannot place or spark transport to any place you are currently locked out of ... interesting to see what happens if you have a spark target installed and then leave that corp/lose that outpost ...might give a whole new way to spai.

Changes are interesting.  Although I see the need to have a teleport safezone from the longest range turret, I had thought the consensus from the conference was that 1000m, not 2000m was the preferred range.  Might be easier to restrict how close the long range turrets can be placed to a tele, rather than all structures.

I can see the spark transport being used to move miners and defensive fleets around a gamma island and save on the long jog, but you will need to build multiple terminals (not a bad thing).  However, how about player built island only teleports?  Have a neutrality setting (so no enemy interzoning) and limit to 3 per island .... you could probably move a force or miners quite effectively around an island, and the bots also.

Just some inital thoughts, will think about it some more .... steps in the right direction.

Re: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

HungryDudes wrote:

Issue: Building on gamma is too expensive, needs to be more accessible.

- Increase the manufacturing unit of construction blocks to 5. This means a manufacturing cycle will produce 5 blocks instead of one, so effectively this will also reduce its individual component cost, and thus, its price.
- Halve the manufacturing time of construction blocks.
- Since they are the most frequently used buildings, reduce the components in energy transmitters and energy backbones to 20% of the current amounts.
- Remove infinite NPC-seeds for building foundations, so players can set their own price.

Suggestion:
Remove infinite NPC-seeds for construction blocks, not just building foundations. Let the players set their own price and build their own market.


Issue: Terraforming is too expensive/slow.

- Reduce the price of terraforming charges to 20% of their current value.
- Restore the old terraforming cycle time bonuses to harvesting-specialized robots (5% per controlling extension level - 50% max reduction), by switching back their current defense-related bonuses. Increase the cycle time of terraforming modules by 15% to not make them too fast.

Suggestion:
Remove infinite NPC-seeds for terraforming charges, make terraforming charges player-made like ammo/mining charges (requiring colixium?). Let the players set their own prices and build their own market.

Issue: The risk of losing your whole gamma colony overnight is too high, and other issues connected to MPC defense.

- Make every building able to enter emergency mode, except for command relays and turrets. This narrows down the risk of losing a base to the time frame when the owners are actually able to defend it.
- Implement multi-phase emergency mode for main terminals only: this is somewhat similar to how beta outpost intrusions work. Depending on the technology level of the terminal, it has a counter of 3 to 5 times (for standard, advanced and hi-tech terminals respectively) when it can subsequently enter emergency mode. Every time the terminal goes into emergency mode, this counter decreases, and every time a phase passes without emergency (2 days), the counter increases. Once the counter reaches zero (ie. it enters the last possible emergency phase), the terminal becomes destroyable after the last emergency phase, like it is currently. Thus the worst case scenario (ie. not even one successful defense in between) for a standard main terminal would be 3 times 2 days (plus the set emergency offset time), so around 7-9 days.
- Make newly built main terminals invulnerable for 72 hours, to make starting off on gamma less of a gamble (of course they can’t enter emergency phase either during this time).

Suggestion:
Reduce emergency mode from 72 hours to 8-16 hour variables like Beta outposts. With 72 hour window between emergency times, it would take 9-12 days to take down a standard terminal which is way too much for such a cheap building.

Alternative: lower counters down to 1 to 3 times, so standard terminal gives you 3-6 days grace-period to haul your stuff out. Players should invest assets and effort to have a bigger grace period.

Issue: The teleport construction range issue.

- It seems that the consensus is that the increased range is a good idea, so we’ll stick to the 2000m no-build zone around gamma teleports, as that is the safe range where a fully boosted hi-tech turret can’t reach anymore. And we promise to discuss such features with you in the future before announcing them as an immediately incoming change.
- Keep minerals from spawning in the no-build zone.

Suggestion:
Adjust hi-tech turrets instead, otherwise fully boosted turrets will be shooting at people regardless.

Issue: Gamma reimbursements required due to changes.

- Reimburse the price difference of all purchased terraform ammo in proportion to the new market price.
- Reimburse the price difference of all purchased construction blocks in proportion to the new market price.

Suggestion:
Reimburse players with few days of sub time since you pissed on their hard work and effort.

Issue: Not enough to do / not enough rewards on gamma islands.

- Double the number of normal military and industrial roaming NPC spawns on gamma.
- Add an elite NPC into roaming spawns on gamma.
- Remove level 1 artifacts from gamma, keep spawning only level 2 and 3. Make artifacts spawn only on passable terrain.

Suggestion:
Vary the spawn point of roaming NPC spawns. Spawning them on teleports will not work.
Restructure artifacting so L1-L3 are found on Alpha, L2-L4 on Beta, L3-L5 on Gamma.

Issue: Too few NPC spawns in general, with emphasis on starter islands.

- NPCs on Alpha 1 islands will only attack when attacked. This makes it possible to place more fixed spawns without interfering with mining, artifact hunting, transport and travelling. (Of course NPCs popping out of beacons and artifacts are not affected by this rule.)
- Increase all normal (non-starred) distress beacons to 10 waves.

Suggestion:
Remove distress beacon from the loot-table of SAP spawns, limit them to artifact/elite mob loot tables.
Increase plasma from distress beacon NPC mobs by 25%.

Issue: General changes to minerals.

- Make epriton liquid again.
- Although the cost of noralgis incubators has been already considerably reduced, and the mined amount per cycle has been doubled in the expansion, we plan to increase both the maximum harvesting cycles, and the additional cycles per growth phases in noralgis (exact figures to follow).

Suggestion:
Divide non-harvestable (orovya, etc) incubator price by 10, so they are dirt-cheap. It lets people play minecraft on Gamma without grinding crazy cash.
Create triandlus/helioptris mass-incubator that creates a whole plantation.
Remove infinite NPC-seeds, allow players to craft incubators and set the market-price for them.

Short-term changes (~2 weeks)

Issue: General improvements to gamma.

- Terraform suppression building: slows terraforming in a certain radius for everyone. Owners can easily turn it on and off if they want to make changes to the terrain, but it can slow down offensive terraforming when active.
- MPC Aura buildings: basically a copy of outpost auras. Place down a building and select an aura it should provide for the owner corporation’s members on the island.
- Turret priority setting: set up a priority list for turrets that controls which classes of robots they should attack first.
- Make turrets return fire when attacked, regardless of relation settings.

Suggestion:
Put in different auras, don't just copy-paste content.
Allow players to take manual control of turrets with appropriate permissions.

Issue: Just stuff we've been working on.

- Spark teleport: this has been announced way back, but now I’m happy to tell you that this feature is close to complete. What’s it good for? You can place down teleport targets in any terminal or outpost you are, and you can teleport your spark back to it from any other terminal in the world, for a certain fee. This means that you can’t bring any robots or items with you, it’s only your bare spark. The feature should make market, production, and remote (corporation) storage management much easier and faster.
- Private transport assignments: place items into a secured container that only you can open, set a pickup and a destination terminal, add a reward and a collateral amount, and let other players do the transport for you. This was obviously possible so far too and is nothing new, but creating a framework and adding safety rules to it should make it actually a viable mechanic.

Suggestion:
Relate the spark teleports to a new extension.
Don't half-ass copypaste EVE's contract system, copypaste it properly. Let players offer contracts for whatever they want. Make them linkable in chat channels.

Mid-term changes (~1 month)

Issue: Not enough rewards on gamma / Give more meaning to colixum.

- Completely new tier of modules using colixum.
- New robot variants using current chassis, with colixum-based components. (Manufacturing still possible anywhere for both.)

Suggestion:
Scrap this idea.
Make a NEW class of robots (no cheapskate oh-lets-repaint-bot-and-type-in-new-bonuses) with colixium based components that are buildable on Gamma and can't go through Beta <-> Alpha teleports.

Other suggestions:
- Drag every patch through 24-48 hours of Public Test Server.
- Uninstall Skype, let community elect player-representatives to compile feedback (think EVE CSM).
- Hire more GM's, more forum moderators. NO PLAYER VOLUNTEERS.
- Hire a Community Manager who will launch community events and projects, Zoom closing a few bug-threads every so often to remind players the Devs are still reading the forums doesn't work.
- Remove all developer characters, hidden or not-so-hidden, from player-corporations.

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Re: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

Cassius wrote:

Ville ... Zoom  said "you are remotely able to delete targets", but I think you need to be in a terminal to place targets.  Thus upon implementation, you cannot place or spark transport to any place you are currently locked out of ... interesting to see what happens if you have a spark target installed and then leave that corp/lose that outpost ...might give a whole new way to spai.

It won't let you teleport if the relation setting of the destination doesn't allow you.

We have to discuss a lot of the questions so I ask for a little patience.

14 (edited by Annihilator 2012-07-10 17:23:38)

Re: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

Hmm, summary of blog:

many, probably good changes for gamma. nothing for PvE

is that another blog?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

From what I've heard, they are focusing on the PVE stuff after gamma is sorted, could be wrong.

Re: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

Annihilator wrote:

Hmm, summary of blog:

many, probably good changes for gamma. nothing for PvE

is that another blog?

You must have missed the NPC and distress beacon changes, the spark teleport, and the private transport assignments then. But this isn't all we planned, that's true.

Re: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

All good stuff. I'm kind of new so I don't know what colixum is, thus I withhold my opinion regarding this.

Didn't se anything about market stuff. The markets affect all areas and pvp, so I look forward to seeing some fixes here too.

One simple thing in my mind would be changing some of he fees for market ads from fixed rates to a better percentage rate. It's actually really hard to sell stuff for lower prices right now. Wierd, right?

Anyway, glad to see you guys took input and ran with it. I'm looking forward to the updates!!!!

Re: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

Those are minimalistic PvE changes. not pve content.

- last time i did beacons, i fell asleep during the last wave. the change for more waves will probably make CIR happy, or any Gamma corp with a beacon farming pit.

- spark teleport.... another EP + NIC sinc. at least it means i can participate in bigger PvP battles that happen on other end of the worldmap, 10minutes after i got home from work or a party.

- private transport assignments - its something, but not for me. in most cases i need something transported, its towards an outpost that is locked for others

- npc spawns on alpha1 not attacking...
i realy hope that is just a temporary thing until you could implement something better. "we are fighting over nia with the local life-form, but dont worry, they wont attack unless you shoot at them"

Im still for the practice target generating plasma when you shoot at it...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

All good proposals, only thing I would maybe change is there should be robots/modules that could only be built on gamma

Also, there can be NPC sell orders for stuff (at a very high price), but I agree with Syndic, every item in the game should be buildable too, mobile TPs, TF charges, EVEYTHING.

And not sure where I read it, but you could really drop the instability timers on alpha, would make moving around much faster.

Industrial Junkie

20

Re: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

Devs wrote:

Issue: Not enough to do / not enough rewards on gamma islands.

   + Double the number of normal military and industrial roaming NPC spawns on gamma.
    +Add an elite NPC into roaming spawns on gamma.
    +Remove level 1 artifacts from gamma, keep spawning only level 2 and 3. Make artifacts spawn only on passable terrain.

Make spawns bigger (add extra normal npcs) also add more then one elite NPC (they aren't that hard to kill).
Leave level 1 gamma sites, just boost the rewards. Make artifact scanning worth something, because even if I get few level 3s and bunch of level 2s it doesn't matter when reward is so hilariously random (at least for me it's mostly junk). I don't say make it iWin button, right now even constant mission running is and will give you more income.

Devs wrote:

+ New robot variants using current chassis, with colixum-based components. (Manufacturing still possible anywhere for both.)

I would prefer to see walker/destroyers instead pimped (because ofc they will be better than regular or mk2 ones). Increase amount of robots by adding other types - it's more interesting.

"you're not in an MMO to make friends, you're there to make enemies smile"

Re: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

Maybe increase the cost of main terminal, otherwise it's a cheap way to make forward bases that's invulnerable for 7+ days.

Re: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

The Blog wrote:

Remove infinite NPC-seeds for building foundations, so players can set their own price.

This is the best part of the whole proposed changes. Not that the others are bad in any way, just that this one is really good.

Re: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

in general very good.

i will post my detailed opinions and a few more suggestions most likely tomorrow.

Re: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

I'm liking it devs.  Deffinitely a step in the right direction.  Thanx for listening to the community, great job!

Lonwolf
NSE
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Re: New devblog: The Gamma proposal

mostly good, cautious changes, looking forward to the spark teleport.

Population graphs

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