~ 2 Million NIC for a T4 LWF...

First, I appreciate they are available on the market, that's good at least.

Second, running level 2 transport missions on Alpha is roughly 500K/hour, so it only takes me 4 hours to earn enough to buy that frame.

Of course, it only takes 1 mistake to loose it and another 10M worth of modules on my PVP alt.

First-hand account from a basically solo player on alpha, it takes me 6 hours of mission grinding to outfit a Std Baph for PVP and 20 hours for a tiered Fit. So, for those people that say its just 'pixels', well yeah pixels and a whole week of boring grinding.

So I agree with Alex, you really have to be in a corp at least to PVP and to make it somewhat enjoyable, a beta corp.

Manostra wrote:

Typical Thoughts of a new Player
...

Perpetuum is a grindy game. Due to the sandbox nature it always will be. By that I mean that all the bots are player created, so someone has grind the resources to create them, and if your not in a large corporation, you have to grind the NIC to buy them.

The time-grind between making and earning needs to be reasonably balanced; or I should say will natually balance because of the player driven market.

New players will always be at a disadvantage when they are competing to buy items that corporations and vetern players still desire, as they will just naturally have greater buying power, and the price will reflect that.

Starter NIC sources where reduced because NIC/hour was easier to earn with starter missions than advanced ones.

TL;DR - This game has a high barrier to entry and it will remain so until the game matures enough to have a greater seperation between starting areas and end-game areas.

Radar can't be LOS because Missles do not require LOS to fire. The changes to radar distances is suffcient to allow room for advanced tactics.

with the changes to alpha resources, less ore and lower prices on kernels, its already difficult for new players to earn NIC, I would assume NIC farmers would have the same problems. That is, they have to earn X NIC/hour to make it economically feasible to farm, and they need to have a large enough player base to try to sell the NIC to.

For instance, if they make 1 Million NIC/hour they would have to sell it for like $5 us dollars per Million to make any money at it. Don't know about anyone else, not that I would buy NIC, but if I did I certainly wouldn't pay $5/M.

If they can somehow break 10M NIC/hour, like they were probably doing prepatch with 10 miners on alpha, than they may get more takers at $1 per 2 Million... but again, combat kernel farming is too user intenive to run multiples, and there just aren't the same volume of ore's to AFK mine with 10 arganos .... not to mention they know this trick and banned those accounts before.

Not that someone couldn't find a way, so just DON'T BUY NIC and they will go away. smile

3,605

(13 replies, posted in General discussion)

An interesting side effect, when sitting in my Artemis, I have a WHOLE bunch of RP... go figure, enough for long range lasers and accumulator injector.

You saw through my evil plan!

I wonder if corps and/or players would allow 'combat reporters' to fraps battles; like a News Corp that was set to blue by all sides. Could be a good strategy, if you are losing, to blow up the Arhke MKII fraps bot!

3,608

(14 replies, posted in Q & A)

The circle for CS seems to be somewhat accurate, there are 71 members but most have not logged in for over 30 days. It would be nice to have an actual number in the circle though instead of trying to guess by size.

3,609

(8 replies, posted in Balancing)

Tolkenmoon wrote:

And the short range laser  starts off with a hit dispersion of 8 doesn't do as much damage but with lvl6 or 7 in precision firing gets it down to roughly 6.5 whereas the machine gun is at 9.5 thats a huge amount when hitting smaller bots. And no i don't want to fit lasers as use a tyrannos, just want machine guns to be a little better against smaller bots, like the lasers or even close to the magnetic weapons

I do use an assualt to farm assaults and smaller, but its nice to take the mech out every now and then.

Why do all weapons have to do similar amounts of damage to all targets?

In some games your allowed to change your set up depending on the situation you find yourself in, Perpetuum makes you choose everything but your ammo before you undock. They purposely make you think about what your going to be doing and fit accordingly. There are more generic things you can do that will be OK for any encounter, but you can also fit against a certain scenrio and get a big advantage.

I'm doing an experiment fitting Medium lasers on an assualt bot. One complaint I had was there are no mechs on alpha, but I was wrong, I ran into a rookie mech last night, and that Med weapon kicked butt on it. Now, in assault vs assaust/light PVE the Med laser just eats up accumulator and does about the same DPS (damage averaged over time) as one of the small lasers.

If you want to use your mech, that's cool, maybe you could experiment too with fitting small guns, or a mix of small and med. It takes a lot of bonus damage to make up for a 50% to 67% miss rate due to precision, so even unbonused small weapons on a mech that acutally hit are usefull.

Someone else suggested to me about fitting med guns on the assualt, which from an EP stand point would be much quicker, but I saw those dispersion rates and dismissed it. One of the reasons is that most of my other EP is in laser skills, but if I was gun specialized, it would have been a better fit for the assualt vs. mech scenerio.

TL;DR

Don't get too obsessed with certain fits, there are lots of choices, some are just better than others; and the success of the fits depends on the scenrio you apply them too.

Happy hunting. And I'd like to see someone do the experiment in reverse, Mech with small to counter my Assault with Med.

Look at that statement in general terms again;

"A bot can't dictate when to fight and also fight."

If the bot can't fight, then its always going to choose NOT to fight, since by definition it can't.

Apply that to EW if you want, but it won't be a balance change, it will just make EW unused.

I suppose if you keep eliminating bots by removing weapons, eventually you'll get to only the mech being useful.

"The game is balanced when I decided when and where to fight, not the other guy."

or the same thing said another way

"The game is balanced when Mechs decide when and where to fight, not EW"

or the impossible statement;

"The game is balanced when no bot controls when or where to fight"

ForestWanderer wrote:

tl:dr

The issue isn't with insurance, the problem was that it was the BEST way to make NIC in the game; best means fastest and least effort.

Even used as intended, insurance will always convert resource into NIC, because that is the type of NIC source it is.

The cost of ore on the market is not really relevant to the issue, as those ores are available 'free' from the world. The only true cost is the NIC paid to the factory and in the CT.

In games, the only real thing that counts is player time when looked at from an exploitation of game mechanics.

If I can make X NIC/hour doing THIS , and X+1 NIC/hour doing THAT; I (Player, corp, alliance) will do THAT.

Now, if THAT carries a risk of banning, it will need to be X+Y, where Y is my NIC vs reward tolarance to getting banned before I will switch from THIS to THAT.

I doubt an entire corporation/alliance will doing anything again like the previous scale, because it is now know to be bannable; at least not until the economy and player base is much much larger and they have a chance of going unnoticed. But even than, the profitability of the has been reduced with the removal of the cost reduction skill, as well as (assumed) better market tracking.

TL;DR

Insurance is a NIC source, it is balanced when the time required to generate NIC is equal to or greater than the time required for other NIC sources.

3,613

(8 replies, posted in Balancing)

They are also different to generate some variance in how robots are fit.

Also -

Autocannon - 215% Dmg per 8 seconds

Machinegun - 160% Dmg per 4 seconds

If the Dispersion was the same, no one would ever fit auto cannon because the MG would always do more damage. If you drop the Disp down on all of them, they become too powerful against smaller targets, and the dmg would need to be reduced to rebalance.

There is a long running thread about Mech vs. Light bot balance in PVP. If your farming in PVE, its simpler, use an assault to farm assaults/lights and a mech to farm mechs/assualts, and heavy mech to farm Heavy Mech/Mechs. Keep in mind, some of the PVE groups are created intentionally so that you have to have more than 1 player to farm them effciently. For instance, there is a group outside of HHO on beta with Mechs and EW; the EW pwn any solo Mech player trying to farm, ECC and demob while the NPC mechs blow the crap out of them. Add in even 1 assault to take out the EW and its doable. Everything is easier with more players, but somethings are not meant to be doable solo.

If you like the HP and acc of the Heavy mech for farming assaults, mount a mix of small and med weapons.

3,614

(189 replies, posted in Balancing)

Last time I checked, the range of med weapons was much much longer than small weapons.

Being in a mech is like holding your hand on the little guys head as they swing widely but can't hit you.

This whole thing is not about damage, its always been about some players being frustrated that they can't Kill EW bots; and its because they can't catch them.

The game would be out of balance if (3) players could not kill (1) player, regardless of the bot mix.

3,615

(13 replies, posted in General discussion)

Update: Current fit

Std Sensor Amp and std Laser tuner
(2) Std small hcl laser and (2) T2 small lasers with (1) Std Med laser on Baph
LWF, Small Repper, Std Coreactor

Some numbers (weapons as fitted):

AP: 627
RP: 329 (325 used)
Speed: 66.42 KPH
Crit: 10%
Lock Range: 273 m ( Amp off : 203m)

Small Lasers (T1/2 same):
Cycle: 2.94 Sec
Dmg: 154%
Hit D: 2.37
Rng: 173m / 100m Falloff

Med Laser(T1):
Cycle: 3.68 Sec
Dmg: 162%
Hit D: 6.32
Rng: 201m / 110m Falloff

RP numbers (Fitted/Base)

Std Med: 164/200
Std Light: 33/40
T2 Light:  30/36


Went out rating some Assault/Light bots with chemo ammo. Functionally the Med laser chews up Acuumulator way to fast for sustained fighting. Found it more useful to only use the med laser on the Assualts and let acc recharge while fighting the light bots in the pack; because of dispersion of the Med laser and slightly longer cycle time it only hit 1-2 times before the bot was dead anyway.

I will change out the repper for an T2 aux acc as it will be required if I ever fit a second Med on this thing. (T2 Aux acc uses 6 less RP than the repper also).

I also noticed that there were a couple shots where the small laser hit but the med was 'Blocked by obstacle". I'll need to watch more closely next time, I do move around alot, so it may not be something where med is more sensitve to slope.

My over all impression so far  - the small dps increase over time is negated by the larger acc useage on assaults.

Where to next - Range.

I have a good chunk of EP in sniping skills but the smalls are still at 173 M optimal, while the Med is 201 M. Locking at 273 M all the lasers are still within the falloff and if I can lock I can fire; the advantage I can see with the med laser here is to put a little more DPS on the target before the smalls become effective. The HCL model has a base range of 300M, but uses 30 more RP per fit. However, 2 of those with dual sensor amps would give this bot some punch out fairly far; this would be if i was expecting to go against mechs. (It could scare Ewar to see laser fire that far out from an assualt, but the dispersion on light bots is so bad that it would be more pink floyd then pew pew).

more to come... smile

I keep trying to get last post ... *crosses fingers*

In game, its a learn to play issue as well as a mindset change that Light to heavy bot is the designated progression path, when it is not, its a role based progression game.

Here on the forums, the heavy vs. any bot is too generalized to actually have a discussion. Its like saying cheese is better than puppies, the context is just to disparate.


Edit: No puppies were harmed in the creation of this post.

3,618

(37 replies, posted in Guides and Resources)

Tau, Since you are in a corporation, remember to have them remove any privledges you may have or you will have to wait an additional 24 hours for the corp removal timer. Also, just have your corp hold your stuff for you.

Well, it takes about 46,000 EP to just to undock a heavy mech. If a new account doesn't do anything else, they can basically undock a heavy mech in about 12 days.

This person is totally worthless because they have no other skills.

Its not the bot you are sitting in that should control your effectiveness, its your skill level; both EP skill and your tactical skill.

When talking about who's going to kill who, you must take into account the Fittings, skills, and PVP skill of all pilots; just generically saying This bot or that bot should beat this bot trivializes the impact those traits have on the outcome of the battle. And Fit,EP, and Skill are not trivial.

If you are going to join a corporation, specializing is required and most appropriate because you have a staff of fellow members who do the things you can't.

If you intend to make your own corp as Ralph suggests with additional accounts, then you should specializeeach account.

If your not going to join a corp, then you can generalize.

The downside to putting in EP as needed is a very slow progression. But it can also be very fulfilling to mine, manufactor, and blow up your own equipment.

If your going to try to compete on the market, or with production, then you will need to specialize, and run lots of hauling assignments to build up your initial capital before you can make NIC on selling items.

Field commander, squad leader, ect.

FC's that don't win battles don't get to be FC's for very long, players just stop following them.

Considering that the same FC's that played Eve are now FC'ing in Perp, the chances of drastically changing tactics are Zero unless the game mechanics force it by making them lose when those tactics are employed.

Interference is one such game mechanic play, but from what I have been reading, FC's are more finding ways to work around that limitation and continue with just slightly modified tactics, because they still work.

Once AOE is implemented, that may chance again, or more likely these FC's will again make small adjustments until the basic tactics work again.

At some point an FC will do something radically different and create a new winning tactic that takes advantage of, instead of working around, the new mechanics. At that point the 'eve mold' will be broken.

Ann/Alex

Yes, I'm able to fit out my asault box from most drops quite easily, if the sensor amps dropped it would help alot with fitting.

Medium items still don't drop on alpha, because of the lack of mechs to shoot.

Lack of mech gear isn't really a hindernce to pvp, but it does make it difficult for alpha corps to build up any kind of 'army' to make a real attempt at any beta target.

If we look at taking a Beta Island like a 'King of the Hill' type scenerio, there is typically some negative associated with holding it while the aggressors have some bonus, so eventually the king will fall. As it is now, once you have the 'hill', you get stronger while your non-hill owning oppenents get weaker; basically there is no chance once you established on the hill that you can get overthrown.

Not that the game itself is out of balance, because the other beta island alliances can still unseat the hills, there just isn't much opportunity for corps or alliances that are not already on beta to break in.

Again, that will change when more land appears, so its more observational then a call for any change.

Back to the modules, it would go a long way to make PVP more affordable if it was possible to farm all the standard modules on alpha; with some review and rarity checks for electronics based modules also for EW fits, even if it was just standard items.

3,624

(16 replies, posted in General discussion)

Jelan wrote:
DEV Gargaj wrote:

Then the Gargaj-Plug is for you.

That's what SHE said!

Not to me she didnt!

I was there, I'm almost positive she mentioned it.

Like I said, I'm sure you can come up with any number of scenerios, but we havn't seen the new insurance values yet. There may not be a worthwile profit in blowing up bots anymore.

Jita wrote:

Actually you can trade insured bots by corp insuring them and using the corp hangers.

arga wrote:

  it has to be done using a corporate infrastructure.