1 (edited by Hunter 2011-02-15 03:58:43)

Topic: PvP balance. (again and again)

...sorry for bad english...

Hello dear developers!

Recently we observe various changes for balancing. However this process reminds improvisation more.

By the current moment we have:
1) the Main force are groups intakts.
2) Mechs are cans which can make nothing with light/ew bots.
3) Tactics of conducting fight is reduced to destruction of the single purposes by a considerable quantity intakts.

It is all means that isn't required to be engaged in skilled mechs. Especially it is not necessary to buy them. And easier to sit down on the cheap easy robot, to collect the big group and to kill all.

Main point which I want to set: What for in game fighting Mechs? What for in game heavy Mechs?

In my opinion Mech should be real threat. Heavy Mech it should be killed by assault robots, mechs and heavy mechs, but only not light or ew robots. ew robots shouldn't be a striking power. Their problem - electronic struggle. Their advantage - speed, the small size and masking.

My offers:
1) to Reduce twice weapon bonus, to increase twice robotics bonuses. (Except fire-arms)
2) to Make some skills inaccessible for light/ew robots. (For example complex mechanix)
3) to Make all weapon heavier and exacting (except t2).
4) For mechs and heavy mechs to enter concept perfect hit what for example on distance of 75 meters the robot didn't miss in general. For assault robots - 50 meters. For light/ew bots - 25 meters. It is possible to make it as a robotics bonus.
5) to Change the formula of resistance. To enter concept of absolute and relative resistance.
Now:
damage = damage * (1-rel_resist)

To make:
damage = damage * (1-rel_resist)-abs_resist

rel_resist = resist_points / (resist_points+100)

abs_resist = (resist_points*resist_rate) / (resist_points+100) *robot_lvl

resist_rate = nuimqol/thelodica/pelistal robot control or basic/advanced robotics

robot_lvl:
light/ew = 1;
assault/mech = 2;
heavy mech = 3;

My offers most likely now will lift a wave of indignation among fans intakts. However it is necessary to listen to them?. Naturally I don't apply that my offers will solve all problems and won't create the new. But the part can at least will bring balance. And certainly I am assured that my offers are subject to criticism and check.


All my offers on balancing should concern only PvP. I consider a PvE content quite comprehensible.

Everyone should understand that any balancing generates only new a disbalance.

Сайт корпорации: www.chaos-online.ru
Раздел приема в корпорацию: http://www.chaos-online.ru/foru....-perpetuum/

Re: PvP balance. (again and again)

its all good except those things:
- intakts are NOT main force now
- mechs can do a lots of bad things with light/ew bots except they runaway

im talkimg about equal numbers only. no examples of 10 intakts vs 2 mechs plz

Have a productive day, Runner

Re: PvP balance. (again and again)

AHAHAHA, how about 1:1 ratio of Ewar/assault with sensor support? roll

The same composition that kicked your norhoopi arse yesterday? lol
And yes, our Assaults did the most damage, our ewar squad acted as tacklers for said assaults.
And yes, your gang failed miserably at pretty much everything.

4 (edited by Hunter 2011-02-15 04:19:03)

Re: PvP balance. (again and again)

2Siddy: It is expected... But your successes in fight, Siddi aren't interesting to me. Besides I know that you and your corporation try to create for yourself comfort by all means. It is your main objective. Therefore to have conversations on balance with you there is no sense. Your benefit is interesting to you only. My main interest - balance.

2Line:
1) it is necessary at first to try to count under my offered formula.
2) ew robots conceptually shouldn't have considerable fire power.
3) ew robots should have advantage in electronic struggle, but in any way in fire power and the reservation. Especially considering the needed experience points to skill up.

Everyone should understand that any balancing generates only new a disbalance.

Сайт корпорации: www.chaos-online.ru
Раздел приема в корпорацию: http://www.chaos-online.ru/foru....-perpetuum/

Re: PvP balance. (again and again)

Hunter wrote:

2Siddy: It is expected... But your successes in fight, Siddi aren't interesting to me. Besides I know that you and your corporation try to create for yourself comfort by all means. It is your main objective. Therefore to have conversations on balance with you there is no sense. Your benefit is interesting to you only. My main interest - balance.

2Line:
1) it is necessary at first to try to count under my offered formula.
2) ew robots conceptually shouldn't have considerable fire power.
3) ew robots should have advantage in electronic struggle, but in any way in fire power and the reservation. Especially considering necessary points of experience for prorolling.

How do ewar robots currently have considerable fire power?
Troiar, no damage bonus, 2 launchers.
Waspish, damage bonus, 5 launchers, effectively 6/7/8 depending on your extensions.

Re: PvP balance. (again and again)

It's the weapon size effect.
Mech vs small bot.
Mech only does 50% or less damage to small bot while small bot does full damage to Mech.
Therefore the impact of number of weapons on a small bot are effectively doubled.

7 (edited by Hunter 2011-02-14 10:36:56)

Re: PvP balance. (again and again)

It is pleasant to me, when the corporation m2s pretends to be the silly...
Once again I will repeat:
ew robots should be a paper.
Heavy robots should be vulnerable only against average and assault and heavy robots.

If not so, name at least one reason what to use heavy robots?

Everyone should understand that any balancing generates only new a disbalance.

Сайт корпорации: www.chaos-online.ru
Раздел приема в корпорацию: http://www.chaos-online.ru/foru....-perpetuum/

Re: PvP balance. (again and again)

thats simple to match - 1 intakt vs 1 tyrannos. same tier fit. you'll see where u did wrong

Have a productive day, Runner

Re: PvP balance. (again and again)

Line wrote:

thats simple to match - 1 intakt vs 1 tyrannos. same tier fit. you'll see where u did wrong

The heavy robot should be capable to combat with 3+ light/ew robots or with 2+ assault. And thus it should be stronger at the expense of the armor and fire power.

Everyone should understand that any balancing generates only new a disbalance.

Сайт корпорации: www.chaos-online.ru
Раздел приема в корпорацию: http://www.chaos-online.ru/foru....-perpetuum/

Re: PvP balance. (again and again)

To whom else to repeat, what heavy robots it is the slow armor tank with 6 lethal guns, instead of a rag which can be destroyed a trifle?

Everyone should understand that any balancing generates only new a disbalance.

Сайт корпорации: www.chaos-online.ru
Раздел приема в корпорацию: http://www.chaos-online.ru/foru....-perpetuum/

Re: PvP balance. (again and again)

Hunter wrote:
Line wrote:

thats simple to match - 1 intakt vs 1 tyrannos. same tier fit. you'll see where u did wrong

The heavy robot should be capable to combat with 3+ light/ew robots or with 2+ assault. And thus it should be stronger at the expense of the armor and fire power.

i can try and kill 2 intakts with my tyrannos - same tier fit.

but you really shouldn't be able to devastate all these lil' mofo bots just because you're on mech - that leads to disbalance

Have a productive day, Runner

Re: PvP balance. (again and again)

Simply put, if your gropho's or seths can't tank 5 ewars then you need to rework your fittings.
Norhoop used a heavy mech quite succesfully, we gave it a volley or two and found it was tanked far too much for us to take down effectively so we would have to first kill everything else.

Re: PvP balance. (again and again)

Line wrote:
Hunter wrote:
Line wrote:

thats simple to match - 1 intakt vs 1 tyrannos. same tier fit. you'll see where u did wrong

The heavy robot should be capable to combat with 3+ light/ew robots or with 2+ assault. And thus it should be stronger at the expense of the armor and fire power.

i can try and kill 2 intakts with my tyrannos - same tier fit.

but you really shouldn't be able to devastate all these lil' mofo bots just because you're on mech - that leads to disbalance

First you can not, if they dress electronics. In the second you can not because they can always leave from you if they want.

На самом деле я говорю про фому а ты про ерему.

Everyone should understand that any balancing generates only new a disbalance.

Сайт корпорации: www.chaos-online.ru
Раздел приема в корпорацию: http://www.chaos-online.ru/foru....-perpetuum/

Re: PvP balance. (again and again)

oh well with proper hands gropho should be able to kill 5 ewars - hard as hell but still possible. no offence, but doesn't it l2p question? also norhoops prefer intakt raids - in this case i don't even understand what for are they want to balance anything.

Have a productive day, Runner

Re: PvP balance. (again and again)

Similar when the corporation m2s gathers in group, they faint also the further actions occur at level of reflexes, and then they don't remember as where was.

Realities are that that there is no sense to participate in fights on heavy robots. All battles pass on light robots (90%).

Everyone should understand that any balancing generates only new a disbalance.

Сайт корпорации: www.chaos-online.ru
Раздел приема в корпорацию: http://www.chaos-online.ru/foru....-perpetuum/

Re: PvP balance. (again and again)

strange. almost any battles on dom are with mechs from our side. dunno how it's looking on norhoop.

whats for mech balancing - perhaps they can have more hp. imho thats only one thing they really need.

Have a productive day, Runner

Re: PvP balance. (again and again)

Most likely I have concerned whose that benefits and now actively want to transform a theme into a small talk.

Players have expressed the opinion and even have put arguments.

I ask to pay attention of developers. I consider that is necessary to deduce PvP on new level with use of all kinds of robots.

Everyone should understand that any balancing generates only new a disbalance.

Сайт корпорации: www.chaos-online.ru
Раздел приема в корпорацию: http://www.chaos-online.ru/foru....-perpetuum/

Re: PvP balance. (again and again)

there is only one limit - mech balancing shouldn't make light/assault bots obsolete

Have a productive day, Runner

Re: PvP balance. (again and again)

Balancing should make light/ew robots auxiliary, but not the basic participants of PvP.

Otherwise it turns out that the beginner comes to game, sits down on castel/prom/yagel and in big enough group can kill all.

Mechs should be strong. Light should be weak.

Everyone should understand that any balancing generates only new a disbalance.

Сайт корпорации: www.chaos-online.ru
Раздел приема в корпорацию: http://www.chaos-online.ru/foru....-perpetuum/

Re: PvP balance. (again and again)

such idea leads to "beginners comes to game, wait till he is able to sit on mech and then go". what will be lights/ew purpose then? shouldn't we just remove them out of the game?

Have a productive day, Runner

Re: PvP balance. (again and again)

Line wrote:

such idea leads to "beginners comes to game, wait till he is able to sit on mech and then go". what will be lights/ew purpose then? shouldn't we just remove them out of the game?

No. Hunter means that EW must be more Support than DPS battle unit. I'm agree with him.

Re: PvP balance. (again and again)

oh well 1 vs 1 against mec its not a combat unit. and another thing - any robot with a mass blob will be OP, there is nothing to balance but blob mechanic

Have a productive day, Runner

23 (edited by Dromsex 2011-02-14 12:42:14)

Re: PvP balance. (again and again)

Right hunter - atm lights are king of open pvp - the most natural form of pvp. Thats ridiculous. Lights and EW are support units and have their dedicated skills. Thers no reasoning for them to be active offensive units.

And right Line, theres no way to balance masses - but lights and EWs are best dps units atm in roamings allthough they have the least firepower. Why that? becasue they can choose their fights at will, retreat if necessary and evade most attacks and kite.

This makes them superior to anything in roamings allthough they are the cheapest, easiest to abtain and ugliest bots.

Re: PvP balance. (again and again)

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … r-modules/

First point of that topic would have a great impact on that issue, really. without nerfing ewars in their role as tackler and ewar.

they would end up with 2 headslots for whatever they want to fit there, but they wont be able to fit more then two weapon tunings and two weapons (but without a sensor amp).

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: PvP balance. (again and again)

indeed. but when it goes to balance you should not forget about equal numbers. with right skills, fits and hands equal number mechs should win vs equal number light ewars. or at least it will be draw.

even non-ewar lights are more annoying in pvp now than e-wars.

Have a productive day, Runner