Topic: Medium lasers on Baphomet

I mentioned in another thread I was starting to do this, but wanted a little more help from the 'numbers' guys.

I'm only looking at the 'short' range med lasers; since the small lasers have a range of 150 and the med 175, they should more or less be effective in an alpha strike, and it would require a second amp to get a 300m + locking range that I would rather use for a tuner.

I guess I wouldn't be opposed to looking at a (2) HCL Med laser setup though, for sniping.

The obvious issue here it why, since I can sit a mech, would I want to spend all that EP on reactor stuff to get those on a Baph... well, I guess it is something that is keeping me intersted in playing, and hey, maybe those reactor points will come in handy when Arty comes out...

Any thoughts on if this will actually be useful, or am I just doing it for fun?

So far I've noticed that, when I actually hit with the Med. it does 50 ish dmg but has a slower rate of fire than the small, which does about 22 dmg and hits most of the time, and 44 ish with crit.

Re: Medium lasers on Baphomet

As useful as lolaird.

Re: Medium lasers on Baphomet

I'm on the right track then!!

Re: Medium lasers on Baphomet

Medium lasers, no.
Medium autocannons, yes!

The Game

Re: Medium lasers on Baphomet

Never really thought of doing that but dont see much point in it, except maybe for like how u said sniping.. But even then it would only be for sniping mechs so yea...

Re: Medium lasers on Baphomet

Well, I agree this is a solution looking for a problem.

... Oh Auto cannons

I was worried about the app. draw on the med lasers. Would still get the turret based EP bonuses  and those med guns EP would still be applicable hoping into mech.

7 (edited by Annihilator 2011-02-15 12:47:50)

Re: Medium lasers on Baphomet

a baphometh with 2x med. AC/MG and 3 small laser is actually possible, and pretty powerfull -> but even with prototype gear: SLOOOOOW.

with enough extensions, you could field a 2x med firearm, or 1x firearm 1x med launcher Prometheus.

even 2x med gauss cannon (T2) is possible on prometheus.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Medium lasers on Baphomet

I was able to fit 1xMed Laser and 1xStd Small and 2xT2 small last night.

The constraining factor is the Reator power.

Yes, the guns are much heavier than the laser. Fit as above speed is 67 kph @ Nav 10 with STD LWF. Also the size factor of Me dlaser is 8 vs 10 for the gun; with skills have the laser down to 6.4 and expect it to be 5.4 with Precision 10 in 12 days.

Still working out the numbers but its looking like with Tiered Coreactor and Tiered lasers, I should be able to fit 2xmed and 3x small.

The upside, from the blog it sounds like artilliary is going to be "These new modules will be of course rather high-end, with high extension requirements and energy usage"

so all this RP EP isn't going to waste in the long run.

I'm still a little worried about accumulator though. Most likely fit 2xmed will require Acc module too, which just leaves 1 leg slot for LWF or Repper.

Re: Medium lasers on Baphomet

Doing just a general look at Medium dispersion;

Robot size/Weapon Dispersion = % hit
With Precision 10; you get 30% reduction in Dispersion ()

Med Laser - 8 (5.6)
Med Mag - 10 (7)
Med mach gun - 12 (8.4)
Med Auto Can - 10 (7)

Robot Size

Light - 2.75 to 4.0 3.0 for most non-industrial
Assualt - 4.0
Mech - 7.0 to 9.0; 8.0 for most non-industrial

Looking at Med. vs assult (applicable to any Med weapon regardless of bot mounted on)

4/8(5.6)  = 50% to 71% hit chance
4/10(7)     = 40% to 57% hit chance
4/12(8.4)  = 33% to 48 % hit chance

In general, med. lasers would be better suited for Baph vs. assualt, but at best your going to see a 29% reduction in dps.

Using my above tested numbers than,

(22 dmg / 3 cycles ps) = 7.3 dps per small turret
(50 dmg / 4.5 cycles ps) = 11.1 dps per med turret

[note my cycle times are much lower due to extensions, but using base values for both will give normalized results]

7.3 * 3 turrets = 21.9 dps
11.1 *2 turrets = 22.2 dps

total = 44.1 vs Mech or larger

vs. assualts however 22.2dps *.71 = 15.87 + 21.9 = 37.77 dps.
With 5 small turrets * 7.3 = 36.5 Dps

a 3% dmg increase vs assult bots but a 17% increase vs Mechs or larger.

* Note these numbers are based on actual damges from combat logs using chemo in both types, so while the values may vary the %'s will likely remain constant vs different resistances. I also have skill 5 in both Med and small, but the baph adds 5% to small lasers. Increasing Med laser skills will make the 3% gap grow without 'wasting' EP in basic robotics or basic optics. Advanced laser is 5 (15%) now, going to 10 would add an additional 15% to 18% total, not to include skills that decrease cycle time.

Re: Medium lasers on Baphomet

Just wanted to add, I'm not trying to make an arguement that fitting Med laser on a Baph is recommended. Its something I'm doing, and hopefully everyone else can benefit from my experiences without needing to spend the EP to do so.

Re: Medium lasers on Baphomet

hey.
your trying to do more damage with two mediums on an assault vs. assaults.

funny thing - because i know so many topics complaining about how weak medium weapons are against assaults, even with the robot bonus from mechs, and at least 4 of them.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

12 (edited by Arga 2011-02-15 22:21:02)

Re: Medium lasers on Baphomet

Med laser weapons are only marginally better than small weapons, until you spend alot of EP. That holds true regardless of the Bot they are mounted on.

I don't know about med guns or mag because I don't have any real damage numbers on a consistent platform (my baph) to compare them to. They would however need to be 15% higher base damge to make up for the dispersion difference in those weapon types vs. lasers.

Edit: 4 med lasers on a Artemis gets a 5% bonus plus the advanced robot control bonus already, which would be result in more overall dps against an assualt than a (5) smalls fitted on baph. If you fighting an EW with surface size of 3 though, 3/5.6 your going to cut that dmg by 53% vs. 71% for assult.

Re: Medium lasers on Baphomet

Update: Current fit

Std Sensor Amp and std Laser tuner
(2) Std small hcl laser and (2) T2 small lasers with (1) Std Med laser on Baph
LWF, Small Repper, Std Coreactor

Some numbers (weapons as fitted):

AP: 627
RP: 329 (325 used)
Speed: 66.42 KPH
Crit: 10%
Lock Range: 273 m ( Amp off : 203m)

Small Lasers (T1/2 same):
Cycle: 2.94 Sec
Dmg: 154%
Hit D: 2.37
Rng: 173m / 100m Falloff

Med Laser(T1):
Cycle: 3.68 Sec
Dmg: 162%
Hit D: 6.32
Rng: 201m / 110m Falloff

RP numbers (Fitted/Base)

Std Med: 164/200
Std Light: 33/40
T2 Light:  30/36


Went out rating some Assault/Light bots with chemo ammo. Functionally the Med laser chews up Acuumulator way to fast for sustained fighting. Found it more useful to only use the med laser on the Assualts and let acc recharge while fighting the light bots in the pack; because of dispersion of the Med laser and slightly longer cycle time it only hit 1-2 times before the bot was dead anyway.

I will change out the repper for an T2 aux acc as it will be required if I ever fit a second Med on this thing. (T2 Aux acc uses 6 less RP than the repper also).

I also noticed that there were a couple shots where the small laser hit but the med was 'Blocked by obstacle". I'll need to watch more closely next time, I do move around alot, so it may not be something where med is more sensitve to slope.

My over all impression so far  - the small dps increase over time is negated by the larger acc useage on assaults.

Where to next - Range.

I have a good chunk of EP in sniping skills but the smalls are still at 173 M optimal, while the Med is 201 M. Locking at 273 M all the lasers are still within the falloff and if I can lock I can fire; the advantage I can see with the med laser here is to put a little more DPS on the target before the smalls become effective. The HCL model has a base range of 300M, but uses 30 more RP per fit. However, 2 of those with dual sensor amps would give this bot some punch out fairly far; this would be if i was expecting to go against mechs. (It could scare Ewar to see laser fire that far out from an assualt, but the dispersion on light bots is so bad that it would be more pink floyd then pew pew).

more to come... smile

Re: Medium lasers on Baphomet

An interesting side effect, when sitting in my Artemis, I have a WHOLE bunch of RP... go figure, enough for long range lasers and accumulator injector.