76

(14 replies, posted in Balancing)

Jita wrote:

650m neuts are useless?

Neuts and drains aren't electronic warfare.

Syndic wrote:

I think the community would be a lot better if we had a few more Gremrods trying to start projects like this; and a little less Containers obsessed with personal and political power. roll

This.

Anyone can quite easily make a new character unaffiliated with their main and set out on various ventures claiming to be "Neutral". Although their main may be in a large corp or alliance you'd never know otherwise and would be under the impression that this person is neutral until information was revealed which stated otherwise.

Gremrod has not done this. If you're to stupid to realize that neutrality and bias is a personal trait and not actually linked to these imaginary characters we use or what they do then that's your own problem but trying to add legitimacy to this illegitimate problem is only making you look silly Container and all those with half a brain can see it.

The Massviely interview can be found here.

A copy of this post can be found on Infestation forums here.

------------------------------------------

Like all good stories the tale of insurance fraud has a beginning middle and an end. Although the end is still happening I’ll write what has happened so far.

Lets Start at the Beginning - We Told You So

We start with a quote from the login screen of Perpetuum, added on February 13th. “Today’s database maintenance was necessary to solve recently discovered insurance fraud”. Insurance was implemented during Closed Beta on the 11th June 2010. Before the insurance system was implemented there were around two weeks of planning, design and development. During these two weeks Gremrod and I had lengthy conversations with the lead and other developers in private chats and on IRC explaining why the proposed insurance system would not work as intended, the biggest flaw being insurance fraud. When we asked whether insurance fraud would be an allowed aspect of the game we were told that it would be, by the lead developer.

We discussed the issue of insurance fraud at length with the developers explaining in great detail how it worked and how it could be countered. After a week of multiple hour long conversations with a number of Developers, Gremrod and I both came to the recommendation that the insurance system should simply not be implemented. And we stand by that today. We did as much as we humanly could to make the developers aware of the many issues with insurance and there is no possibility that they were not aware of insurance fraud and the many more issues surrounding it during the planning stages of this feature. However they still insisted on its implementation and that insurance fraud would be an allowed aspect of this feature.

Therefore the statement that insurance fraud is a recently discovered issue is a down right lie. This issue was not recently discovered, it was in fact known about before the insurance system was implemented over 8 months ago!

Let the Fraud Begin

Fast forward 6 months and we are roughly 3 weeks into Perpetuums release and Menace To Society is about to begin its insurance fraud operation. Before we intentionally blow up the first robot for its insurance payout we ask multiple GM’s numerous times as well as the lead developer once again as to whether this was a legitimate game mechanic that was allowed to be used in the manner in which we were using it. The responses we got varied from “It’s allowed” to it’s “Not an exploit”.

Assured by the responses we received that this was not against any rules and we would not be punished for partaking in this activity we began our insurance fraud operation.

After we blow up our first batch of robots we buy more minerals which we funnel into the existing production character and another that we’ve added whose sole purpose it to produce robots to insurance fraud. As each batch of robots is blown up we buy ever increasing amounts of minerals, some of which we use to add another two production characters to the operation as well as supplying the existing ones. We’ve now got 4 characters producing robots around the clock, just for insurance fraud. We’ve quadrupled our maximum capacity from when we first started.

At our peak M2S was responsible for cycling multiple billions of NIC through the market each week purchasing minerals, commodities and decoders. We were without a doubt a significant helping hand to the Perpetuum economy during its early days providing it with the NIC it desperately needed in order to grow at the pace which was required for all starting economies.

Pants on the Head *** Day

Over two months later from when we first started our operation we arrive at February 13th. I attempt to log in, the server is down. An hour or so later someone mentions on TeamSpeak that there is a new developer blog, which they link. I click the link and read it in shear disbelief.

I first logged into my main account, Styx. I checked the balance. I had 1 NIC. I checked the corporation wallet, it was empty. I then proceeded to check my alternate characters, all of whose balances were at zero. Just my characters alone were hit for over 1b NIC. This makes the following quote from the developer blog blatant misinformation due to the context in which it was written “During the server downtime today we have removed a sum of close to 1 billion NIC from numerous private and corporate wallets”. All of my characters were in M2S and they were cumulatively hit for over 1b NIC.

After an initial damage assessment of just how much NIC was stolen the figure easily totals more than 2b NIC from M2S alone. Although it has been subsequently edited it was originally written in the blog that “No corporation had a sum greater than 1b NIC removed”. The developers are lying about the real NIC amounts removed or I’m entitled to have what was actually taken sent back up to what they’re publicly admitting. If you were to factor in the opportunity cost of the robots we hadn’t yet blown up but were planning on the 2b NIC figure is paled in comparison.

Inconsistencies

The developer blog on insurance fraud has an image on which is written “Bad Market Average – Good Market Average = Not Yours”. This quite clearly insinuates that the whole reason for the NIC removal was because of “Bad” market averages. It is also stated that “The difference of these two values is the falsely gained money, their "profit". This is what we had to take away”.

This is another lie. Menace To Society was the largest perpetrator of insurance fraud and as a result we have intricate knowledge of all things surrounding it. I can say with absolute certainty that the market averages for assaults bots and under were not manipulated in any way shape or form by M2S and they were not successfully manipulated by any other player. This is because I kept I very close eye on insurance payouts and robot sale prices and the two did not alter by any significant amount during the whole period of insurance fraud. Robot prices and insurance prices were stable and closely linked.

Using this knowledge I can say that the reason for the NIC removal was a lie and a farce. It was made up for propaganda. The real reasons the developers only know. Was it because M2S was making too much money? Gaining too much of a competitive advantage? The actions Avatar Creations have taken against us specifically make us feel we have a target painted on our backs. They were more than willing to shoot us down regardless of the reason, whether legitimate or not.

Victims of Association

One of the main points regarding the insurance NIC removal was that it was controlled, procedural and only the corporations and players whom the developers deemed guilty had NIC removed. However this is yet another blatant lie. There were 6 corporations in Infestation alliance. 3 of which never had anything at all to do with insurance fraud. They never attempted to manipulate market prices, they never blew up an insurance fraud robot, and they never insured a robot to fraud themselves however because they were part of Infestation alliance they had their corporation accounts zeroed. They were victims of association. So how does a procedural and controlled system whose job it is to remove only the NIC that was gained by insurance make such a mistake. It’s simple, there was no procedural system. The developers went through every corporation wallet in our alliance and zeroed it, not even checking the logs. They assumed they were guilty with no evidence at all and enforced punishment. What. A. Farce.

The people who participated most in the activity didn't have their accounts zeroed first, the developers went straight for those with higher (unrelated to insurance payout) balances, who had had much less involvement. This presents a much different situation than what has been described by the developers.

Similarly players in M2S who had nothing to do with insurance had their personal wallets zeroed. People who had only recently joined the corporation. The Developers were like overzealous bureaucrats in the sense that they had a quota to fill and they did not care in the slightest who filled it. You were guilty until proven innocent, but only if the quota was filled otherwise you stayed guilty.

Unprofessionalism & Developer Misconduct – Naming, Shaming & Personal Attacks

The first significant unprofessional move to be made by the Avatar Creations development team was to name and shame those who partook in insurance fraud. Almost unheard of in the gaming industry Avatar Creations partook in the activity “defamation of character”. Legally seen as libel in some countries Avatar Creations proved to the world that they are not a professional outfit operating on basic morals and principals expected in such an environment.

We then have the 1 NIC that was left in my main account, Styx. Every single account that had their wallet zeroed was left with just that, zero. However the development team had the audacity to leave 1 NIC in my personal wallet as a “two fingers” up to me, a paying customer of their game who has not broken any rules. This is quite clearly a personal attack and a disgraceful move by such a company.

To Summarize

The developers were warned 8 months ago before the put the mechanic into the game, they knew it was happening once it was in the game and reassured us that there is nothing wrong with it. Now they suddenly turn around, wipe NIC off accounts almost at random (later admitting to having punished the wrong people) and point fingers at the very same people who have been telling them about this issue the entire time and who they confirmed to that it’s ok. If that wasn’t enough they then personally attack a paying customer and partake in defamation of character.

Ending Notes

This is less about the insurance system itself but the absolute farce in which it was handled. Personal attacks, unprofessionalism, guilty until proven innocent, naming and shaming, inconsistencies, lies and misinformation form only the tip of ice berg in regards to the number of problems which have arisen throughout this situation. Lessons need to be learnt by the developments team and fast. I want this game to succeed on its merits, but not at all if these type of actions are to be repeated in the future.

Styx
CEO of M2S, Leader of Infestation Alliance

Signed.

Kernels have a random fail chance and diminishing returns. Welcome to Kernel researching.

TL:DR Container loses a Gropho completely Neut & Shield fitted to a group of 10 light EWAR bots when he only had a Kain to support him. Apparently this is imbalanced. I call this Darwinism at work.

Bump. Another engagement where most of the screen was name plates.

Shoot inanimate objects, fun...

Set up a test environment and M2S will prove everything we've said in this thread first hand even though we do this every day.

There is a skill named "Extensive Mass Production" with three levels, basic, advanced and expert. This increase the maximum number of mass manufacture jobs you can run.

There is also a skill named "Extensive Prototyping Production" however there is only one level of this which is basic.

The suggestion is simple, add an advanced and expert version of extensive prototype production just like "Extensive Mass Production" so we can meet the demand for prototypes. The way the Prototype system is built means that the number of people capable of creating high tier Prototypes is very limited, bottlenecking the entire system and named production as a result. Adding these skills would improve game play significantly and allow for more EP sinks.

Signed.

Annihilator wrote:

Styx's farming example is a bit the extreme.

For an organised corporation it really isn't. We did this regularly in OB and we'll be doing it again in release for the kernels.

Kernel buy orders are not the problem. The NIC disparity between the different levels are what is. Some quick math to back up my statement.

* Buy orders are at Beta prices.
* Kernels per hour are the theoretical maximum. Assuming you can instantly kill each NPC as it spawns.
* Each person represents a Heavy Mech with good skills and equipment.

5x 1st Star Assault Spawn on Alpha

12,600 * 300 = 3,780,000

Takes 1 person to farm. Can be done in complete safety.

3x 5th Star Mech & 3x 5th Star Heavymech on Beta

33,000 * 180 = 5,940,000
26,400 * 180 = 4,752,000

Total = 10,692,000

Takes at least 8 people. Can only be done on Beta in PvP.

Alexander wrote:

Bring back the cubes!

+1

91

(190 replies, posted in Recruitment forum)

New website is up. If you made an application but haven't been contacted by a recruiter you'll need to re-post it on the new site.

Derp.

Had a couple of interested parties. Still looking for more suppliers capable of delivering large amounts of raw materials and/or commodities.

Alexander wrote:

With massive diminishing returns unless they have been removed.

This.

Palamedes wrote:

God dammit that means all the math that I have been trying to do to figure out their formula is wrong..  SO now not only is the dev's policy to not reveal anything, but its also to flat out lie and give false information..

Thanks Styx.. sad

To be fair, he probably didn't know how it worked.

Palamedes wrote:
Styx wrote:

You can get below the base amount shown in the information.

Not according to a dev.

Go figure.

You can get below the base amount shown in the information.

Logs should be limited by a specific number of entries to prevent horrendous lag when viewing them. 100 entries should be more than enough information than required but still be few enough to prevent game crippling lag when opening up certain logs.

I'm looking to purchase large amounts of commodities on a regular basis. In order to streamline the process and ensure mutual benefit I'm offering the opportunity of mining contracts. The details will be discussed in private however the general idea is that we agree on a quantity to be delivered within a given time frame at a set price.

Below are two lists of what I'm interested in.

Raw Materials

- Titan Ore
- Immentium
- Stermonit

Commodities

- Titanium
- Isopropentol
- Metachropin
- Plasteosine
- Chollonin


Contact Styx in-game or send me a PM on the forums to discuss this opportunity.

Warmzone wrote:

I am offering a cheaper, fast and reliable Hauling service

Rates as following:

*Services within an Alpha island 180k every 80AU
*Services between Alpha Islands 320k every 80AU
*Services to/from beta islands will negotiate (must provide your own security, as cargo will not be insured)

Contact Warmzone in-game

1 NIC per 467,493m between Alpha islands. Bargain!

Where do I sign?