• CEMS
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Topic: Calculating Required Amounts, Relation Ratio and Material Ratios..

So myself and one of my guildies have been pondering these numbers and what they mean for a while and just can't seem to get the math to work..

Things that we know that are DEV confirmed;

1.  The information panel for a given item gives the minimum required amounts of each component and no matter what your skills or relations you will never be able to go lower than that.  Example;  A castel takes 2500 Titanium, and can never go below it.

That means that at 100% CT ME, 100% Relation Ratio, and 100% Material Ratio that castel will require 2500 titanium.

2.  At 50% CTME, 0% Relation Ratio, 0% Material Ratio it takes double the minimum required amount.  Example; A castel says 2500 titanium, but at 50%, 0, 0 it requires 5000.

Beyond that it's all guess work.

Firstly, does the Relation ratio and the material ratio mean anything?

I have seen several different formula put up by users suggesting they don't..  Some have the users Extensions some don't.. some have the Relation ratio in it.. some don't.. Most don't have the Material ratios at all... etc..

Someone must have figured this out already..  So far nothing I do will get these numbers to play right..  I can get close, but usually my numbers fail once you go high or low.. etc..

Thoughts?

  • CEMS
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Re: Calculating Required Amounts, Relation Ratio and Material Ratios..

It looks like Material Ratio in the factory window is your skills plus something else..

  • *
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Re: Calculating Required Amounts, Relation Ratio and Material Ratios..

You can get below the base amount shown in the information.

  • *
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Re: Calculating Required Amounts, Relation Ratio and Material Ratios..

The material ratio you see is your current EP skills vs the max EP. So if you see 50% it means you have 50% of the EP skills for material ratio.

Same deal with the relations ratio.  10% means you have 1/10 the total relations possible.

So you can't use these % to calculate the actual material/cost savings.  You need to look at how each EP skill reduces costs and add them all up.

  • CEMS
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Re: Calculating Required Amounts, Relation Ratio and Material Ratios..

Styx wrote:

You can get below the base amount shown in the information.

Not according to a dev.

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Re: Calculating Required Amounts, Relation Ratio and Material Ratios..

Palamedes wrote:
Styx wrote:

You can get below the base amount shown in the information.

Not according to a dev.

Go figure.

  • CEMS
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Re: Calculating Required Amounts, Relation Ratio and Material Ratios..

Styx wrote:
Palamedes wrote:
Styx wrote:

You can get below the base amount shown in the information.

Not according to a dev.

Go figure.

God dammit that means all the math that I have been trying to do to figure out their formula is wrong..  SO now not only is the dev's policy to not reveal anything, but its also to flat out lie and give false information..

Thanks Styx.. sad

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Re: Calculating Required Amounts, Relation Ratio and Material Ratios..

Palamedes wrote:

God dammit that means all the math that I have been trying to do to figure out their formula is wrong..  SO now not only is the dev's policy to not reveal anything, but its also to flat out lie and give false information..

Thanks Styx.. sad

To be fair, he probably didn't know how it worked.

9 Reply by Palamedes (edited by Palamedes 2010-12-22 02:42:16)

  • CEMS
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Re: Calculating Required Amounts, Relation Ratio and Material Ratios..

Styx wrote:

To be fair, he probably didn't know how it worked.

Which means he shouldn't have answered the question..  I'm a software developer for IBM and when someone asks me a question that I don't know the answer to, I don't answer it I go find the answer or get someone else to provide it.. I certainly don't just make something up..

But he was very positive in his responses so I believed he was talking from a stance of knowledge..  You sure you didn't doctor that picture? tongue (kidding I know its real.. )

Okay so.. I don't suppose anyone has the formula I'm after?

  • BKK
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Re: Calculating Required Amounts, Relation Ratio and Material Ratios..

AFAIK onle two DEVs can give you a certain answer to that question: CRM (coder) and Alf (balancing).

if you got your answer from one of those, then its not a wrong answer - then its non-intentional feature.

  • CEMS
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Re: Calculating Required Amounts, Relation Ratio and Material Ratios..

Well since someone else said they aren't supposed to release information at all and since I don't want to get anyone in trouble, I'll keep the devs name private.  But it was a dev..

So now I'm back to trying to figure out this formula..  anyone have a thought?

  • BKK
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Re: Calculating Required Amounts, Relation Ratio and Material Ratios..

hmm, a little hint: the other forum sections.

im pretty sure there is a topic at Q&A or Guides about exaclty that topic, so don't wonder if this one here gets closed.

  • CEMS
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Re: Calculating Required Amounts, Relation Ratio and Material Ratios..

hrmm, your little hint: isn't helpful at all.

If you know of a post that has these numbers already explained then link it.. I don't see it and can't find one on the forums, and yes I have looked.

Otherwise, I don't see why the general forum is the wrong place to ask questions or have a discussion..

  • CEMS
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Re: Calculating Required Amounts, Relation Ratio and Material Ratios..

Looks like this thread has some info.. going to test to see if they are correct;

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … er-things/

  • CEMS
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Re: Calculating Required Amounts, Relation Ratio and Material Ratios..

They aren't correct.  But I'll move my complaints to that thread.

  • JOKE
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Re: Calculating Required Amounts, Relation Ratio and Material Ratios..

It's worked out by the following formula:

(Mineral amount X material ratio)/(0.6 X production efficiency)

So for something that uses 1000 titan with a 60% ct and 100% production skills it would be exactly the same minerals.

(1000 X 0.60)/(0.6 X 1.00) = 1000

So with perfect build skills and better than 60% material ratio you always produce for less than base.

  • PHM
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Re: Calculating Required Amounts, Relation Ratio and Material Ratios..

Jita wrote:

It's worked out by the following formula:

(Mineral amount X material ratio)/(0.6 X production efficiency)

So for something that uses 1000 titan with a 60% ct and 100% production skills it would be exactly the same minerals.

(1000 X 0.60)/(0.6 X 1.00) = 1000

So with perfect build skills and better than 60% material ratio you always produce for less than base.

What do you mean by production efficiency? If your productions skills were at zero for example, you'd get a division by zero.

  • BKK
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Re: Calculating Required Amounts, Relation Ratio and Material Ratios..

Step one: [input cost / CT M(aterial)E(fficiency)] = base cost
Step two: [base cost / (1+ SUM(extension %))] = factory cost (roundUP)
Step three: [factory cost / (1+ AVERAGE(Relation of the nine corps)] = final cost (roundDOWN)

gave me a correct result vor any virgin CT during BETA
Delta in the result was due to the rounded display of Relation and even more delta because of the rounded CT quality after it was used.