226 Reply by Purgatory

(25 replies, posted in Balancing)

Annihilator wrote:

with average extensions it can run 1,5 vautrell, no point in repair cycle extension

Accelerated armor repair level 10 effectively turns 1 armor repairer into two, you get twice the repairs per cycle and only need to use 1 slot.

Even the "new" ap recharge bonus gropho wouldn't able to perma run 1 T4 medium armor repairer at level 7 accelerated armor repair. I could not do this on the new gropho without using extra AP recharge modules or investing over 150k ep into training the last of the AP skills to level 10, and then at that point it would roughly break even on the recharge rate of my current lower skilled tyrannos.

I have little doubt that they were careful with their nerfing of the grophos max accumulator, it's probably going to suck now, and there will be a lot of complaints. Anyone else think that removing one of the grophos bonuses, to replace it with ap recharge, but then nerf the max ap and thus the recharge of the gropho is really just a big nerf?

Go to forum: Balancing

227 Reply by Purgatory

(25 replies, posted in Balancing)

Shaedys wrote:
Purgatory wrote:

Switch gropho shield bonus for the accumulator recharge rate bonus yes, but do not nerf the max accumulator - You're just removing one bonus, to replace it with another, then partially negating that bonus by lowering the recharge rate anyway.

The idea was not to give it a bonus of 3.357234-ish % per level, but instead make a nice rounded number.
Because they thought that giving it a 5% bonus would be overpowered.

I would also contest that with an extra accumulator recharger you could make up for that difference in recharge that currently exists completely, making the Gropho have a better recharge then the Tyrannos with rechargers.

If the accumulator is left the size it is now, then yes, a T4 recharger would give it a slightly better ap/sec recharge rate than an equally skilled tyrannos with no T4 recharger. But depending on how much the lower the max accumulator by, it's likely to still have a worse recharge rate than the tyrannos even if the gropho does have a T4 recharger. That's pretty screwed up.

Why do cheapy normal mechs have a faster recharge rate than heavy mechs? Heavy mechs are slower, more likely to be in the thick of battle than a mech, and in the case of turret mechs, they require more AP to fire the extra 2 guns.

Go to forum: Balancing

228 Reply by Purgatory

(25 replies, posted in Balancing)

Annihilator wrote:

a gropho with recharge bonus on maxed extension could permarun three medium repair modules...

like a Tyrannos atm too - with the difference that the Gropho has:
30% more hitpoints to buffer,
1 more headslot for additional repair tuning
1 more legslot for ERP / injector /accumulator / Resist
50% more offensive potential
60% more Buffer Accumulator

and unlike other heavy mechs - it doesnt really need more AP for its two more weapons.
if you compare it to other heavy mechs, the difference in average consumed AP increase vs. average recharged AP is way better when you look at Tyrannos<>Gropho then Artemis<>Seth

also, smaller accumulator can have advantages too, especially with a recharge bonus on it.

So a dev tested the new recharge bonus gropho on the test server with all level 10 extensions and it could NOT run even 2 medium repairers, and now you're here saying it can run 3? Don't post incorrect information.

Small accumulator is somehow better with a recharge bonus? Your logic is failing hard once again.

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229 Reply by Purgatory

(28 replies, posted in Balancing)

Speed is almost the single most important factor in perpetuum. Just remove LWF as a speed increasing module altogether - Make it have some other effect.

Go to forum: Balancing

230 Reply by Purgatory

(25 replies, posted in Balancing)

Mammoth wrote:
Purgatory wrote:

Switch gropho shield bonus for the accumulator recharge rate bonus yes, but do not nerf the max accumulator - You're just removing one bonus, to replace it with another, then partially negating that bonus by lowering the recharge rate anyway.

Dev Calvin wrote:

Well, we give a nice round bonus of 5%, so you get 40-50% bonus for an average awesome pilot. This would pretty much render the Gropho indestructible, so to balance it properly, we would have to add 2.334265324523452134% per level. To make it look better, we add the nice round 5% and change the accumulator to whatever, it will always be a nice looking number. We are by no means nullifying it.

That's pretty elementary, Watson.

I think this has already been addressed. Good point about the tyrannos already having better accum than the gropho though.

So what we're going to end up with is a tyrannos who can perma run a medium T4 repairer, but a gropho that can't. (unless he has level 10 in all extensions)

Even if they leave the grophos accumulator alone, the tyrannos will still have a better recharge rate than the gropho, if they nerf the gropho accumulator, the problem just gets even worse.

As for the almost perma running 2 repairers on the test server, i'm sure they've made some kind of mistake, or they're running it with level 10 advanced robotics, level 10 energy management, level 10 accumulator expansion, and maybe even an ap recharge module.

The bottom line is we're going to end up with a tyrannos with a much better recharge rate than the gropho, creating a huge imbalance.

Go to forum: Balancing

231 Topic by Purgatory

(25 replies, posted in Balancing)

Tyrannos base accumulator: 2000
Base recharge time: 420

= 4.76 ap/sec base recharge

Gropho base accumulator: 3250
Base recharge time: 720

= 4.5 ap/sec base recharge

Note that this does not factor in accumulator bonuses of any kind. This tyrannos has a better base recharge rate than the gropho, it's the same for all heavy mechs vs mechs.

A dev mentioned giving the gropho an AP recharge rate bonus, instead of shield bonus, so it goes in line with the other pelistal bots. He also said to compensate for this he would nerf the max accumulator of the gropho. That would be really bad, the gropho already has a poorer base ap/sec than the tyrannos, and it will be even worse again if they nerf gropho max accumulator.

Grophos max accumulator is at about where it needs to be, it's directly in line with the other heavy mechs vs their mech counterparts, lowering the max accumulator will only create an imbalance.

Switch gropho shield bonus for the accumulator recharge rate bonus yes, but do not nerf the max accumulator - You're just removing one bonus, to replace it with another, then partially negating that bonus by lowering the recharge rate anyway.

Go to forum: Balancing

232 Reply by Purgatory

(28 replies, posted in Balancing)

Just change LWF completely. It no longer gives a speedboost, instead, it gives you huge resist vs demobs, no longer gives hp penalty.

Or, it gives you immunity vs demobs, but still gives hp penalty.

Go to forum: Balancing

233 Reply by Purgatory

(28 replies, posted in Balancing)

Even if they increase base speed of bots, and nerf LWF, people will still use LWF. As long as there is a module to increase speed, people will use it.

Only option is to change LWF into a totally different type of module, you can't just remove it from the game, but you could change it to do some other effect than speed increase.

Go to forum: Balancing

234 Reply by Purgatory

(139 replies, posted in Balancing)

AgY wrote:

To fire six med missile launchers you need 12 AP to fire six Med Lasers you need between 156 and 210 AP.

Can a gropho generate 12AP after being sucked dry? Yes.

But wth! the ictus is not exactly a frontline assault bot....

Missiles should use the same amount of AP every other weapon uses.

ALF: use grophos LOS advantage when testing. The gropho has it and if gropho-guys dont use it then they should die.

And while youre testing: have a seth catch a running mesmer..

Missiles use same AP as turrets? Then don't forget to give missile bots 50% higher max accumuator size, and also bring missile dps up around 40-50%.

Go to forum: Balancing

235 Topic by Purgatory

(11 replies, posted in Balancing)

The armor resist bonus on the zenith doesn't make much sense, this is a bot that already has low armor hitpoints and a low number of tanking module slots. It also seems that a good way to use this bot is with a shield.

So I say that this is a wasted bonus, and a more appropiate bonus would be something like shield resist or max accumulator capacity. I know there's talk of changing the Seth shield bonus to an armor resist bonus, so why not go ahead and swap the Zenith armor resist bonus for the seths shield resist bonus, now that sounds like a good idea.

Go to forum: Balancing

236 Topic by Purgatory

(0 replies, posted in Buying Items)

nm

Go to forum: Buying Items

237 Reply by Purgatory

(2 replies, posted in Selling Items)

I'd like to buy the gropho mk2 CT, what do they normally sell for? Give me a price.

Go to forum: Selling Items

238 Reply by Purgatory

(139 replies, posted in Balancing)

Lemon wrote:
Neoxx wrote:

Btw Lemon, how do you get a gropho down to 4.1 seconds while still having him super range fit?  I'd say 6 seconds would be a pretty generous number, seeing you'd need 3 extenders to get close to that range.  I dont have amazing launch skills, but still even with those at 8 each wouldnt achieve close to 4.1 seconds at that range.

You are Correct Good sir, I fix it. Thanks for pointing that out. i mixed up my fits.

It's still way off. Complex missile launch level 9, missile launch level 7, and my T4 medium launcher cycle time is still 7.3 seconds.

Also, 3 range extender to get 800 range? I have propellent mixing level 10 and 3x T4 range extenders and barely get 650 range.

Go to forum: Balancing

239 Reply by Purgatory

(58 replies, posted in General discussion)

Alexander wrote:

Very few people are buying high tier modules and if they are buying them it's usually just giving the enemy "Unlimited Supplies" as they call it.

I don't see many people selling to the market as it tend to help others and as they all need beta island materials it's an odd idea to make your enemies more powerful in the risk of limiting your own supplies.

Can't sell on the market because you're giving the enemy supplies? That's only a problem with perpetuum because the game is so small, it's like a graphical MUD. Everyone knows everyone.

Go to forum: General discussion

240 Reply by Purgatory

(35 replies, posted in General discussion)

Kristan Delorian wrote:

Still nothing to fight for.

Actually if they made one giant landlass, and made it so you could build "bases" on this landmass, it could be interesting. As it currently stands with the island setup i don't see how bases is even going to be fun, what's the point in bases when whole islands are so easily locked down anyway?

Imagine a command and conquer red alert game where the map is just 12 small islands. The only way on or off each island is through one of two teleports. Teleports are either scouted or camped or blockaded with a large force once a player enters the island. Where's the fun? No fun here.

Go to forum: General discussion

241 Topic by Purgatory

(35 replies, posted in General discussion)

Imo one of the biggest faults of this game is how the game is made up of small islands, it really gives the game a kind of shallow feel to it.

I think this may be because when you have a fragmented game world, it's glaringly obviously how small the game is. When you have a large landmass it's not the same. There's also the problem that once on an island, if it's a pvp island, you can be easily trapped there. This ruins the game for everyone, even the alliances who think it's giving them some benefit - its not giving them benefit, because if there's hardly any players it will be a very boring game.

I envision a more fun world as maybe 1 or 2 giant landmasses, where there's no chokepoints, and enough freedom to move around that the solo player or small group can fit in without the need to be part of an alliance. There's supposed to be at least one advantage to being small, and that is that it's easier to hide - This is not the case in Perpetuum as it currently is.

I'll make a suggestion, but perhaps the gameworld should suffer from a massive tectonic shift and all the islands come together to form one giant landmass? That's how the lore could go behind it at least.

I can't think of one single mmorpg that is successful and has the land split up into little bottlenecked areas. I know you could try and say "well eve online is like that" but it's not - EVE has thousands of different zones, smaller than a perpetuum island no doubt, but EVE doesn't feel shallow because of it, there's just too much of a playable area in EVE for it to feel shallow (unless you played it hardcore for years).

You have a pvp game here where you've made it no fun for the average player to even try and compete. That could be a different story if the world was 1 giant landmass and without all the bottlenecks and ways to easily trap people.

Go to forum: General discussion

242 Reply by Purgatory

(15 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

To the players suggesting current modules may act like implants: the fact is they arn't implants, and a new system called "implants" could be introduced, this adds extra customisation and personalisation to the current game and imo is badly needed. Most bots already have so few equipment slots as it is.

Go to forum: Feature discussion and requests

243 Topic by Purgatory

(15 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

I'd like to sugget the addition of player implants to Perpetuum. They would work much the same way they do in that spaceship game. Crappy ones wouldn't be too pricey, but the best should be expensive.

I want to see the best bonuses being ones such as 3-5% missile launcher cycle time decrease, 5 or 3-5% more cpu on any bot you're in, 3-5% enhanced targeting range, 3-5% enhanced optimal weapon range, that sort of thing.

The implants would need to be built in a factory, the main module required to build an implant would be found using the artifacts system, and possibly be gained from doing high level missions, maybe even dropped sometimes from observers.

The second component used to build them would be purchased from the market for nic (nic sink).

Also i'm not sure on this one, but maybe the implants could be tied to a specific bot, so you can use other bots without risking your implants if you're going into a big pvp fight.

Go to forum: Feature discussion and requests

244 Reply by Purgatory

(48 replies, posted in Balancing)

Sure sure, it's always about the future, it might be useful in the future. If perpetuum can't get their content right, even simple stuff, it'll be lucky to have a future. I really hope Perpetuum succeeds, I knew the population would dwindle but hope that future patches will slowly bring the game to its potential.

Go to forum: Balancing

245 Reply by Purgatory

(48 replies, posted in Balancing)

Mongolia Jones wrote:

Well Purgatory looks like you just lack the vision to make a Tyrannos Mk2 worthwhile over the Mk1.

I would just suggest for you to just stick with the regular Tyrannos and Gropho.  I'm sure once these Mk2 mechs are fielded more often you will learn good Mk2 fits and their uses from our PO community.

Actually i barely even play perpetuum anymore, so no bots for me of any kind. I log in to build some T4 stuff, heavy mechs, which don't even sell, i have around 30 heavy mechs on the market and in my hangar. Really the MK2 is just something I bought and have been toying around with fittings for incase I ever feel like playing the game again properly, but I guess that depends on the future devlopment and also the population. My fiance and I's combat alts are fully trained from pre-release day with all EP invested into being the ultimate missile mech pilot, focused on the Tyrannos and Gropho. Just a shame that the Tyrannos mk2 is made inert due to poor game design choices.

There's really no reason for me to leave the terminal at this time, even pvp is pointless for me because there's nothing worth fighting over (to me).

Go to forum: Balancing

246 Reply by Purgatory

(48 replies, posted in Balancing)

Mongolia Jones wrote:
Purgatory wrote:

Actually on the range and locking the gropho can do both if paired with another gropho, tyrannos mk2 cannot. It will get almost 100 less range and that's just too much of a big difference to ignore.

Actually the Gropho will not be able to dictate range as well as a Tyrannos due to it's slower speed.  100m doesn't mean anything when your enemies can close in on you in seconds.

100m means a lot if those seconds actually take about 15 seconds to close and the opponent you're closing has 50% more dps and a higher hp buffer than you, GG. Which they will because gropho is only about 6 slower than tyrannos.

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247 Reply by Purgatory

(48 replies, posted in Balancing)

Mongolia Jones wrote:
Purgatory wrote:

Reasons to use a gropho over a tyrannos mk2

1. Gropho costs about half as much to make.
2. 50% more damage
3. higher optimal range (can't get a good range fit on tyrannos mk2 due to cpu issues)
4. higher locking range.


Now see there, you made a decent argument.  There are reasons to use both the Tyrannos mk2 and the gropho for different reasons.


Purgatory wrote:

I think gropho has tyrannos mk2 trumped.

Well I don't agree with you, lets go through your points:
1. COST: a fully kitted out gropho and Tyrannos mk2 will cost practically the same. (not a good reason)
2. 50% MORE DPS: Yes, a good reason to use a gropho
3. and 4. OPTIMAL/LOCKING RANGE:  This is actually one point not two as you can't do one without the other (a good reason).


So really you have listed 2 points for a gropho and I have listed 5 for a tyrannos mk2.  Doesn't look like the gropho really has the upper hand as you had claimed earlier.

Actually on the range and locking the gropho can do both if paired with another gropho, tyrannos mk2 cannot. It will get almost 100 less range and that's just too much of a big difference to ignore.

Go to forum: Balancing

248 Reply by Purgatory

(48 replies, posted in Balancing)

Mongolia Jones wrote:
Purgatory wrote:

You mean the that same sci-fi mmo where Mk2 versions of the ships are actually worth using? They not only have more module slots, but also more armor, shields, powergrid, cpu, bonuses and so on?

EvE's T2 ships =/= PO's mk2 robots... maybe you misread/misinterpreted that they are the same somewhere?


Purgatory wrote:

...the fact is there's no point in using a tyrannos Mk2 over a gropho in most situations.

Reasons to use a Tyrannos Mk2 over a gropho
1. Faster speed
2. Better sensing
3. A ton more accumulator/sec
4. Less likely/successfully to be ECMed
5. Smaller surface hit size

Reasons to use a gropho over a tyrannos mk2

1. Gropho costs about half as much to make.
2. 50% more damage
3. higher optimal range (can't get a good range fit on tyrannos mk2 due to cpu issues)
4. higher locking range.

I think gropho has tyrannos mk2 trumped.

Go to forum: Balancing

249 Reply by Purgatory

(48 replies, posted in Balancing)

Annihilator wrote:

styx already stated the key arguments:
- they got two more slots that you can use for CPU and Reactor modules which you could not fit onto a regular Tyrannos without removing something else.

this alone makes mk2 bots intresting for those who did follow a different extension-plan, with more robotic extensions then electronic/engineering.

a regular tyrannos's weak point compared to its main foe, the kain, is that it can't fit repair + lwf + 2x hardener to neutralise its resistance-holes.

or Vosyen Makarovich's example - he fitted something into that free headslot that you wouldn't normally do on a combat bot - a repair tuning.

from what i read your attempting to fit your tyrannos mk2 with tunings, range extender and remote sensor amps (probably as a team or dualb-boxing fit) to get the maximum range.
I wouldnt be surprised if you're trying to fit a masking module in there which is another cpu heavy piece.

This is just your opinion, you appear to be assuming that this is the devs vision of how it should be. The simple fact is Mk2 tyrannos is gimped when you can just as easily get into a Gropho. It doesn't matter if gropho requires a small bit extra EP to use, the fact is there's no point in using a tyrannos Mk2 over a gropho in most situations.

No, i couldn't dream of fitting a masking or detection module, you're having a laugh right?

Go to forum: Balancing

250 Reply by Purgatory

(48 replies, posted in Balancing)

Vosyen Makarovich wrote:
Purgatory wrote:

I'd just like to point out that medium autocannons have extremely low cpu fitting reqs, so it's no wonder you can get your setup to work. You also have no range extenders, and these use up a lot more cpu than any module you're using in the head slots.

Yes, I'm quite aware of that, and by your previous posts you're obviously TRYING to get your TyrMk2 to perform the same task as a Gropho, which by sheer logic of it just isn't possible. Heavy Mechs are HEAVY for a reason, Tyrannos isn't that.

They're designed for different tasks and so TRYING to fit one like it's big brother is doomed to fail, HARD.

Just accept the fact you need to think differently while fitting your Mk2.

The best realworld example of the differences I can give you is this:

- Tyrannos is M48 Patton, decent workhorse of a tank
- Tyrannos Mk2 is M60 Patton, basically upgraded M48, a bit better armor / armament (in this case 1+1 more slots), also suffers from the same problems as it's M48 brother (underpowered, high profile, heavy, slow)
- Gropho is M1 Abrams, it will nuke the bejesus out of the other two and laugh like a maniac while doing so, it's on absolutely different level of performance.

To quote certain other sci-fi mmo: Adapt or Die.

You mean the that same sci-fi mmo where Mk2 versions of the ships are actually worth using? They not only have more module slots, but also more armor, shields, powergrid, cpu, bonuses and so on? I could be talking about both faction ships or tech 2 ships too, since both types of "Mk2s" have all of these extras. But hey, I guess none of that worked out too well for EVE, and EVE failed right? No wait, it's quite the contrary.

I also don't know what it is you think i'm trying to fit, since you say i'm trying to fit in like a gropho, what does that mean exactly? If you think i'm trying to fit neuts or drains, you'd be wrong. I also don't know anyone who fits a gropho with the setup i'm after, so you're probably wrong on all counts. The only reason I won't state what it is is so that everyone doesn't start copying my idea.

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