1 Topic by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2011-06-03 16:20:35)

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Topic: More higher tier modules on the market please.

If there is one thing we can all change as a community is taking aside politics and warfare for the good of the game.


I will like to urge all corporations to use the market and sell more items this will make game so much more enjoyable for new subbed members and experienced alike.


1. More supply would mean cheaper modules specially higher tier ones.

2. More pvp with high tier bots/mods and cheaper to replace ( ok thas bad for some I know).

3. More market activity means another profession for the station dwellers.

4. People are asking for more individual support for solo players, a healthy market could be the answer (Dev can't help us in this respect)

I know its a problem by giving your enemy an advantage, but I hear players complaining about lack of pvp, so what's the point. This will encourage more to pvp and loses wont hurt that much I guess.

From my side I have been using the market to buy and sell since I started, there is still nic up for grabs. I am not asking to give your stuff away of course. NIC is a commodity like any other.

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Re: More higher tier modules on the market please.

Very few people are buying high tier modules and if they are buying them it's usually just giving the enemy "Unlimited Supplies" as they call it.

I don't see many people selling to the market as it tend to help others and as they all need beta island materials it's an odd idea to make your enemies more powerful in the risk of limiting your own supplies.

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Re: More higher tier modules on the market please.

Corp markets have killed the public market

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Re: More higher tier modules on the market please.

Mouse Tiger wrote:

Corp markets have killed the public market

game doesnt have enough people to fill the standard markets with t4 items. Either give it time or it will be this way for awhile. No corp is gonna fill the market with all sorts of t4, it takes the advantage away. Atm that would not be good.

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Re: More higher tier modules on the market please.

Alexander wrote:

Very few people are buying high tier modules and if they are buying them it's usually just giving the enemy "Unlimited Supplies" as they call it.

I don't see many people selling to the market as it tend to help others and as they all need beta island materials it's an odd idea to make your enemies more powerful in the risk of limiting your own supplies.


Unlimited supplies? You still need the money to buy them anyways. oh I see you guys have so much nic.

Supplies? Nic is a commodity/ a supply, if players start using the market, this idea of supplies will change.

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Re: More higher tier modules on the market please.

Celebro wrote:
Alexander wrote:

Very few people are buying high tier modules and if they are buying them it's usually just giving the enemy "Unlimited Supplies" as they call it.

I don't see many people selling to the market as it tend to help others and as they all need beta island materials it's an odd idea to make your enemies more powerful in the risk of limiting your own supplies.


Unlimited supplies? You still need the money to buy them anyways. oh I see you guys have so much nic.

Supplies? Nic is a commodity/ a supply, if players start using the market, this idea of supplies will change.

...really, had throw out an excuse didnt you. Regardless of you has everything, endless nic etc. It still is the point it is a risk of limited one supplies to support the enemy, its part of warfare, basic market warfare. Its not rocket science. With more people yes it can become more feesable, your enemies are killing other enemies not of your own, that can help a corps pockets.

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Re: More higher tier modules on the market please.

If a corp has unlimited nic, then neutral corps with production power would be more than willing to supply modules for them at exorbitant prices...

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Re: More higher tier modules on the market please.

TeamBETAalpha wrote:
Celebro wrote:
Alexander wrote:

Very few people are buying high tier modules and if they are buying them it's usually just giving the enemy "Unlimited Supplies" as they call it.

I don't see many people selling to the market as it tend to help others and as they all need beta island materials it's an odd idea to make your enemies more powerful in the risk of limiting your own supplies.


Unlimited supplies? You still need the money to buy them anyways. oh I see you guys have so much nic.

Supplies? Nic is a commodity/ a supply, if players start using the market, this idea of supplies will change.

...really, had throw out an excuse didnt you. Regardless of you has everything, endless nic etc. It still is the point it is a risk of limited one supplies to support the enemy, its part of warfare, basic market warfare. Its not rocket science. With more people yes it can become more feesable, your enemies are killing other enemies not of your own, that can help a corps pockets.

If you do research on Perpetuum properly, you can quite easily get in a position where you can flood the market with T4 and not limit your supplies in the slightest, on the contrary it can be a bottomless hat you pull stuff out of at will. wink

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Re: More higher tier modules on the market please.

I don't see higher tier goods being on the market in abundance for a while. Most corps can't afford to be selling what they manufacture as they're using what they manufacture in terms of higher tier goods. Also, not every corp has all their research done, so that adds to the lacking amounts.

In time, more will become available as more people can spare to sell it. The game is too young anyway to have all that stuff on the market in healthy proportions. Some corps I'm sure can afford to sell random modules, and do, but that some is a very small % of the server.

If anything we can fill the market with T1 items, and that's something I'm looking in to myself personally. It's not hard to build up good quantities of T1 goods and for now, that tier should be good enough for newer players. For the time being if you want tier gear, well, you pay the price or join a corp and take part in their internal markets and production. Most corps *ahem* are still caught up in the arms race. During an arms race, it's not really prudent to be selling off your advantages.

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Re: More higher tier modules on the market please.

Syndic wrote:
TeamBETAalpha wrote:
Celebro wrote:

Unlimited supplies? You still need the money to buy them anyways. oh I see you guys have so much nic.

Supplies? Nic is a commodity/ a supply, if players start using the market, this idea of supplies will change.

...really, had throw out an excuse didnt you. Regardless of you has everything, endless nic etc. It still is the point it is a risk of limited one supplies to support the enemy, its part of warfare, basic market warfare. Its not rocket science. With more people yes it can become more feesable, your enemies are killing other enemies not of your own, that can help a corps pockets.

If you do research on Perpetuum properly, you can quite easily get in a position where you can flood the market with T4 and not limit your supplies in the slightest, on the contrary it can be a bottomless hat you pull stuff out of at will. wink

well it seems im not that lucky, everything I try to make makes me less rich lol. At least I have my souless mining alt that tries get some things for me...

11 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2011-06-03 17:58:07)

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Re: More higher tier modules on the market please.

TeamBETAalpha wrote:
Celebro wrote:
Alexander wrote:

Very few people are buying high tier modules and if they are buying them it's usually just giving the enemy "Unlimited Supplies" as they call it.

I don't see many people selling to the market as it tend to help others and as they all need beta island materials it's an odd idea to make your enemies more powerful in the risk of limiting your own supplies.


Unlimited supplies? You still need the money to buy them anyways. oh I see you guys have so much nic.

Supplies? Nic is a commodity/ a supply, if players start using the market, this idea of supplies will change.

...really, had throw out an excuse didnt you. Regardless of you has everything, endless nic etc. It still is the point it is a risk of limited one supplies to support the enemy, its part of warfare, basic market warfare. Its not rocket science. With more people yes it can become more feesable, your enemies are killing other enemies not of your own, that can help a corps pockets.

Ok you are saying that your corp supplies e.g modules/bot will drain, if you sell to the enemy, you are still getting nic for it, but I guess you don't need it as nic has little value for you.

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Re: More higher tier modules on the market please.

Celebro wrote:
TeamBETAalpha wrote:
Celebro wrote:

Unlimited supplies? You still need the money to buy them anyways. oh I see you guys have so much nic.

Supplies? Nic is a commodity/ a supply, if players start using the market, this idea of supplies will change.

...really, had throw out an excuse didnt you. Regardless of you has everything, endless nic etc. It still is the point it is a risk of limited one supplies to support the enemy, its part of warfare, basic market warfare. Its not rocket science. With more people yes it can become more feesable, your enemies are killing other enemies not of your own, that can help a corps pockets.

Ok you are saying that your corp supplies e.g modules/bot will drain, if you sell to the enemy, you are still getting nic for it, but I guess you don't need it as

sure....lol
so lets say I decide to put t4 items on the market and bring the sell value up twice the price they are worth, you saying im doing it wrong then and I should be fair and sell the t4 items at a reasonable cost as that is the nice thing to do?

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Re: More higher tier modules on the market please.

Simply removing the requirement to prototype t2+ items as the only valid way to get a CT would go a LONG way in filling the market and leveling the playing field.

Let people RE everything and the markets will fill.  There are already corps in game whose goal is to make the market viable who are being held back by this pointless glacier in the road.

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Re: More higher tier modules on the market please.

It takes a serious EP investment to be able to manufacture quickly and efficiently.  From the rough math I have done, that point is at about the 3-4 month of a toon just putting EP into production.

Assuming you have another toon that is focusing on refining / mining...

and another that is doing prototyping eating all the kernels that they can find...

You are still looking at the same time period, if not even longer due to kernal supplies and the amount of time spent farming those above tier 3.

Now, consider the average age of players in a game that is what, bout 7-8 months old now?


For now, it makes military and economic sense to limit the goodies people place on the market.  Not eliminate, just limit.  Some items won't make it to the market, some will make it but be super duper expensive, others will be up almost all the time. 

As the game progresses, people gain EP, and as more people play, the market will continue to increase.  Over the past 3 weeks I have been playing, I have noticed a steady increase in market activity.  Very slow, but it is happening.  And as that happens, more and more corps will see the benefits of having their own goods up on the market as well.  In November, when the game gets to the 1 year mark, I expect that the market you see now will be quite a bit different.

15 Reply by TeamBETAalpha (edited by TeamBETAalpha 2011-06-03 17:44:56)

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Re: More higher tier modules on the market please.

+1 to above post. But Im pretty sure alot of the big corporations and as well long time players stock piled kernals etc from a long time ago, I hear alot about back when PO started there was alot of huge corp operations etc and alot of them still kept all their kernals etc. Before kernals dropped after every npc kill so I have no idea. You can get research up fairly quick though with the use of observer kernals, if your corp dedicates alot of time to artifact hunting and observer killing you can gain research fairly quickly.

i do recall I think SK or FNavy, one of the corps in norhoop alliance was going artifact crazy trying to get kernals from observers, i think it worked out well for them but I cannot be too sure.

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Re: More higher tier modules on the market please.

Mouse Tiger wrote:

Corp markets have killed the public market

nope, corp internal market is just a tool that enables restriction of corp theft but still providing equipment all around the clock to corpmembers in a semi-capitalistic corporation.
there is no change at all - before that implementation corp members just had to wait for their officer to come online if they wanted to get something.

if the market is affected by anything, then its the exorbitant price of epriton due to the lack of beta mining agents that do not mine it for market but own corp use.

also the implementation of the new beta islands with 255 cycle/tile ore deposits without propper roaming NPCs has removed the reason to mine other ores then epriton on beta.

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Re: More higher tier modules on the market please.

TeamBETAalpha wrote:

sure....lol
so lets say I decide to put t4 items on the market and bring the sell value up twice the price they are worth, you saying im doing it wrong then and I should be fair and sell the t4 items at a reasonable cost as that is the nice thing to do?


The price that you think it sells will be fine for now, but at least there should be more types and larger volume of t3-t4 items on the market. The logical thing would be to hold back, I understand why.

I am saying, ignore the logic for now or one of these days we will find an empty server with no one to fight with anymore. sad

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Re: More higher tier modules on the market please.

Annihilator wrote:

if the market is affected by anything, then its the exorbitant price of epriton

As a small independant producer, I can say that for me at least, this is the issue.

I could be producing more, but at the price I would have to charge, only corps could afford to buy them; and they can and do produce them less expensively.

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Re: More higher tier modules on the market please.

Arga wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

if the market is affected by anything, then its the exorbitant price of epriton

As a small independant producer, I can say that for me at least, this is the issue.

I could be producing more, but at the price I would have to charge, only corps could afford to buy them; and they can and do produce them less expensively.

Hence why I said 'I would like to urge all corporations to use the market'.

On epitron; I ninja mined solo, 1 million in beta a week ago or so with a termis with these high prices, even if I lost the termis and sequer I am still making a nice profit smile

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Re: More higher tier modules on the market please.

More ninja miners would be awesome, course as the price went down, it would be less enticing ... roller coaster!

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Re: More higher tier modules on the market please.

Arga wrote:

More ninja miners would be awesome, course as the price went down, it would be less enticing ... roller coaster!

agree; more targets.

the price has been fluctuating quite a bit recently but it's still "high" according to people who buy it and don't mine it.

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Re: More higher tier modules on the market please.

So, semi-organized trips to beta to mine are mostly likely done by small corps that will use the epi for their own production. It would be mostly luck for a solo miner to get in and out of beta with more than a cargo load each trip. And epi is fluffly... like tasty cotton candy... oh, sorry I digress;

What would be great, is more small corps ninja mining for profit, because there are producers willing to buy, just not at 19; because you have so much NIC tied up in the factory you can't operate, and higher prices for goods slows the turn-around time, making you capital starved.

Its really more complicated than manf. not wanting to pay 19, if epi dropped back down to 10-12, you would see a flood of equipment and bots onto the market 3-4 days after the price dropped.

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Re: More higher tier modules on the market please.

the biggest problem with market is that the game is so small that everyone has easy access to the main hubs to buy and sell this means your enenmy does if the game was say 20 times bigger were not everyone is buying and selling at the same 3 term selling on the market would be a good thing

but with as small as the current game size is not to mention pop size its just not feesable or a good idea.

the only solution i could see would be for the game itself to sell all mods on the market at 1.5 the price of the current cost to build them with avg skills or even 2x the price of current build cost then the mods would be avaliable just at inflated prices

i would also say put the t3 and t4 npc sold mods only avaliable from beta outposts this would make them avaliable to everyone all the time < at higher prices then player made ones> but also put a risk to obtaining them

this would't be any diffrent then npc sold light bots and ammo still room for profit and would give new players and smaller corps at least some chance at haveing t4 fit bots

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Re: More higher tier modules on the market please.

Putting all the modules on the market would totally eliminate the need for research. Its sooo expensive and time consuming, that even at 2x the price it's would be just cheaper to buy your T4 modules. Also, no one would need to buy mined material , they would just run transport missions and kill NPC's for goo and straight NIC... basically, it would totally kill the manufactoring and marketing part of the game.

it would be totally different the selling 'starter' bots and ammo that would kill the game play for new players if it wasn't available. The game is completely playable without tiered items.

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Re: More higher tier modules on the market please.

If you make the beta outpost fed with t3 and t4 it will artificially increase the price of the ones produced by people. It's a version of game theory with the other player being the "government". It could get even uglier. There is no good way to say how much should an item cost. Only thing that is currently pricing the market, are ore prices. They were artificially increased by the insurance fraud and we don't have the elasticity of a real market - the prices didn't go down after the fraud ended. All of this is making everything more expensive. Only thing that could change it, would be that everyone agreed to cut the prices of minerals in half.

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