Topic: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

Imo one of the biggest faults of this game is how the game is made up of small islands, it really gives the game a kind of shallow feel to it.

I think this may be because when you have a fragmented game world, it's glaringly obviously how small the game is. When you have a large landmass it's not the same. There's also the problem that once on an island, if it's a pvp island, you can be easily trapped there. This ruins the game for everyone, even the alliances who think it's giving them some benefit - its not giving them benefit, because if there's hardly any players it will be a very boring game.

I envision a more fun world as maybe 1 or 2 giant landmasses, where there's no chokepoints, and enough freedom to move around that the solo player or small group can fit in without the need to be part of an alliance. There's supposed to be at least one advantage to being small, and that is that it's easier to hide - This is not the case in Perpetuum as it currently is.

I'll make a suggestion, but perhaps the gameworld should suffer from a massive tectonic shift and all the islands come together to form one giant landmass? That's how the lore could go behind it at least.

I can't think of one single mmorpg that is successful and has the land split up into little bottlenecked areas. I know you could try and say "well eve online is like that" but it's not - EVE has thousands of different zones, smaller than a perpetuum island no doubt, but EVE doesn't feel shallow because of it, there's just too much of a playable area in EVE for it to feel shallow (unless you played it hardcore for years).

You have a pvp game here where you've made it no fun for the average player to even try and compete. That could be a different story if the world was 1 giant landmass and without all the bottlenecks and ways to easily trap people.

Re: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

long text short answer:

why do you not aks for adding a continents?
the DEV answer would proabably be: "because our engine does not support it (yet)."

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

Though I agree that one large landmass would be better, I do not think it's the main driver of the low population. In my opinion the most important things are to introduce POS'es and improve the current PvE experience.

Re: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

Lucius Marcellus wrote:

Though I agree that one large landmass would be better, I do not think it's the main driver of the low population. In my opinion the most important things are to introduce POS'es and improve the current PvE experience.

thats probably the key factor. who cares about alliances, blobbing or that semi-political meta gaming, when they just want to enjoy an open world with NPCs in it.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

5 (edited by Mara Kaid 2011-05-27 17:42:12)

Re: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

You have a pvp game here where you've made it no fun for the average player to even try and compete. That could be a different story if the world was 1 giant landmass and without all the bottlenecks and ways to easily trap people.

When you try to compete against people with t3/t4 gear, of whom only undock in mechs and heavy mechs I can understand. It's doable to kill them, as we have, but it takes a bit of tactic and organization most people aren't willing to do.

Now the gap is even further, most of us have t3/t4 gear, and newer players are treated by veterans undocking in heavy mechs, or hunting them down with t4 fitted mechs. The hunters aren't really thinking of the prey comming back and then ask for "more targets" or complain of a lack thereof.

Most of the bigger corporations don't really see this as an issue, since you could just join with "them" instead of doing it your own way. Selfish as it is.

You've brought up some interesting points inside your post, there's multiple solutions to either.

We should note the variety of mmorpgs out there. It's splitting the market as it is as well.

Re: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

At it's most basic, Perptuum population is low because of 2 things;

First, the game is difficult, this turns many new players off.

Second, the game is difficult, this makes player retention small.

Improving the starter game to put a sort of 'shelf' before hitting the learning curve will let players get more invested in the game before hitting the wall.

Second point, do nothing at this time. As the game progresses and expands, there will naturally be more game resources available (people, ore, modules, bots, land, etc.) which will make the game 'easier' to survive, while still allowing experienced and skill players to excel.

Re: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

Still nothing to fight for.

8 (edited by Purgatory 2011-05-27 20:53:19)

Re: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

Kristan Delorian wrote:

Still nothing to fight for.

Actually if they made one giant landlass, and made it so you could build "bases" on this landmass, it could be interesting. As it currently stands with the island setup i don't see how bases is even going to be fun, what's the point in bases when whole islands are so easily locked down anyway?

Imagine a command and conquer red alert game where the map is just 12 small islands. The only way on or off each island is through one of two teleports. Teleports are either scouted or camped or blockaded with a large force once a player enters the island. Where's the fun? No fun here.

Re: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

I am really good at command and conquer.

Re: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

i love the island maps in Supreme Commander...

theres no chockepoint you can't pass through with the right combination of units.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

11 (edited by Malakian 2011-05-28 10:03:05)

Re: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

Kristan Delorian wrote:

Still nothing to fight for.

Excellence, is this not enough? Just play to improve and fun.

And now we have more activity than pre-terra incognita two months, just after the first week of the expansion is undestandable a population descent; old players come to see the new features, some like them and others not.

Bigger landmass would be a great implementation for terraformable territory.

I hate stationhuggers and arkhebears.
M2S - Considerably more braincells than Trantor.

Spam

Re: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

Malakian wrote:
Kristan Delorian wrote:

Still nothing to fight for.

Excellence, is this not enough? Just play to improve and fun.

No reason to be excellent. I outgrown the time when virtual values had higher priorities than real.

13 (edited by Malakian 2011-05-28 19:58:36)

Re: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

Kristan Delorian wrote:

No reason to be excellent.

Enough said, nice life motto. Maybe is a common problem, imo, in most of the mmos; ppl only want/need moar/purpler pixels to be happy. Theme park mmos are really more suitable for these kind of prospects, but in a sandbox you do what you want, so if you don't have nothing to do, maybe is not a game's problem.

About landmasses, what about a big island, two or three times the actual ones, open only for a restricted time, with new resources/assignment available? Nice pve implementation and the pvp around the island would be great to get the shiny stuff.

I hate stationhuggers and arkhebears.
M2S - Considerably more braincells than Trantor.

Spam

Re: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

Kristan Delorian wrote:

Still nothing to fight for.

QFT!

The motivation to log into Perpetuum is just nil right now...

There are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those who understand binary and those who don't

Re: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

Legedric Warstrike wrote:
Kristan Delorian wrote:

Still nothing to fight for.

QFT!

The motivation to log into Perpetuum is just nil right now...


I guess, all players that keep active are great at self motivation smile

Last expansion in a nutshell; just gave us more landmass, I suppose thats not enough. Great work by the devs, but still needs extra content.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

Read wall o text and all posts.... Yeah 2 big islands (1 pve and 1 pvp) would be nice. Make the pvp one the terraformable with pos and playerbuilt structures. Make the pve one a mission hub with the ablity to select Corp specific missions and have multiple outposts for corps....
Back to topic of post - There is no nice shiny "i can play for fun" in this game... Honestly its a hardcore gamer game... Even in stEVE there were ways a person could PVE for 5 hours a week and be content with their toon and the game. If I PVE for 5 hours a week in this game I would have given up already also (lack of funding = oh great ima spend my 1 hour of gaming today running xports)... I spend ruffly 3-5 hours a day PVEing this game more on my days off from work. Personal opinion is its not the land mass its the PVE content.

FFS please keep your IMBA posts in the proper forum

Re: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

Big island where you can easily lost, where you will spend 5 hours to find resource spot, where you can build your own base in an undiscovered far corner... thats would be really great

Re: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

I personally think a very simple reason might also be an issue:

"Its main features are a persistent, unsharded game world, fully customizable mechs and robots with hundreds of equipment items, open-world PvP and missions, player-controlled economy, extensive crafting and industry, dynamically changing environment and much more." - From the main site.

Formable planet surface

The whole terrain can be formed by military, agricultural or even aesthetic aspects. - I must have missed this actually being in-game. It's from the list of features.

This draws a certain type of people that enjoy sandboxes with player/guild housing, usually these people come as already established guilds. How many hundreds of subs were lost because Perpetuum was advertised as a terraforming/player building game, when none of that is actually in-game?

Who knows... But first stop falsely advertising please. More PVE content is also good.

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Re: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

Syndic wrote:

I personally think a very simple reason might also be an issue:

"Its main features are a persistent, unsharded game world, fully customizable mechs and robots with hundreds of equipment items, open-world PvP and missions, player-controlled economy, extensive crafting and industry, dynamically changing environment and much more." - From the main site.

Formable planet surface

The whole terrain can be formed by military, agricultural or even aesthetic aspects. - I must have missed this actually being in-game. It's from the list of features.

This draws a certain type of people that enjoy sandboxes with player/guild housing, usually these people come as already established guilds. How many hundreds of subs were lost because Perpetuum was advertised as a terraforming/player building game, when none of that is actually in-game?

Who knows... But first stop falsely advertising please. More PVE content is also good.

I came for terraforming, and didnt find it. That was rly dissapointing. Its a nice game but...its getting more boring by the minute.

Re: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

ot0_m0t0 wrote:
Syndic wrote:

I personally think a very simple reason might also be an issue:

"Its main features are a persistent, unsharded game world, fully customizable mechs and robots with hundreds of equipment items, open-world PvP and missions, player-controlled economy, extensive crafting and industry, dynamically changing environment and much more." - From the main site.

Formable planet surface

The whole terrain can be formed by military, agricultural or even aesthetic aspects. - I must have missed this actually being in-game. It's from the list of features.

This draws a certain type of people that enjoy sandboxes with player/guild housing, usually these people come as already established guilds. How many hundreds of subs were lost because Perpetuum was advertised as a terraforming/player building game, when none of that is actually in-game?

Who knows... But first stop falsely advertising please. More PVE content is also good.

I came for terraforming, and didnt find it. That was rly dissapointing. Its a nice game but...its getting more boring by the minute.


Yes, terraforming was one of the reasons I got to subscribe. Then I heard it will come in a future patch. 6 months gone, I have not heard anything about it. sad

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

Fighters might lack a personal motivation for fight (??!! ?), but if you ask your corpmates they surelly have preferences on what kind of outpost they would like to be refining, recycling or porducing their goods. They surelly have preferences based on reputation, ore or kernel proximity and things alike,such preferences are put in order to get higher beneffits and lower costs from producing, so you can eventually outproduce your competitors and kill them all. Like any other game, its pointless unless u want to play it, or two dont fight if one of them does not want to.
Population and retention seems a problem most niche games have to face soon or sooner, to me it is not in a point where its gamebreacking; i see some healthy corps and new ones with new roles appear every week. Market could be better, but here the problem i think its the corp buy/sel orders whic has damaged badlly the market, along with the kernel nerf, wich destroyed all kernel market, these where bad changes and should be reverted imho since only beneficed the wealthy and made the gap for new players even larger. Moar accesible and moar publicity pls.

Re: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

Celebro wrote:

Yes, terraforming was one of the reasons I got to subscribe. Then I heard it will come in a future patch. 6 months gone, I have not heard anything about it. sad

It's one of those things that has been in the engine since Day 1 (in fact the first ever weapon we built in game 2-3 years ago was technically a shovel), but we still couldn't figure a proper way to implement in in a gamedesign sense. hmm

[14:15:15] <Freya Sabbat> ...Dear god, the Devs are as bad as us

Re: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

how about adding a "sandbox"-island and a basic mining-like mechanic for terraforming - with three outposts on it and full pvp - no npc, no minerals.

Any willing corporation could go out there and "test" terraforming, build arenas for pvp events battles and such.
Testing terraforming ideas with more player will show pros and cons and exploits and such.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

Or you mean like having a test server?

The problem with terraforming isn't the mechanic, it's the limits you have to impose to stop it being game breaking. Even if you do something like only +\- 5 height, you now have to test every map to look for areas which could be terraformed to a breaking point. Suddenly testing is longer than development sad

"like Kalsius, a shameless carebear and jitalover" - Syndic
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Re: Population went up then sunk since patch - Reasons for low pop?

yeah, but not a test server, just a bare sand-island in the middle of the three alphas, for example.

there have been two tests in beta, regarding pvp around heavily terraformed area - The siege event, and the big arena battle.

As a basis for Terraforming mechanics, i would take the RTS-game "Earth 2150". It had a bit terraforming, with terrain restriction and stuff.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear