76

(5 replies, posted in Buying Items)

Ok correction, someone has them up for 50mil each.

I don't think your issues really affect balance that much.  You're saying if you buy a bunch of Sequers (a big investment), you can run transport missions a little faster.  I won't get into the whole transport missions need to be nerfed/removed argument (but they do), but who cares?  If you are transporting materials, nothing is being broken by you doing it twice as fast.  If you are running transport missions, there are about a thousand ways to correct for this.  Make the teleport fee unreasonably high.  Make it impossible to teleport if engaged in an active assignment.  Make it impossible to teleport to or from a station you have an assignment at.  Add a minimum time to complete a transport mission based on optimal travel conditions, so you'd have to wait after you teleported anyway. 

How about cooldowns for the teleport?  One teleport per 12 hours.  That fixes ANY issue you could have with it, you could even let people teleport from alpha to beta.  Quick mobilization would increase pvp, which helps EVERYTHING.

The fact of the matter is, spark teleporting is just one solution to the problem that is logistically moving between stations.  In Eve I would just fly my capsule to Jita or wherever and pick up my new ship.  In Perpetuum I have to have something I'm willing to see abandoned (and you don't always have access to an Arkhe), or I have to take a Sequer and haul it back.  The ability to drive a Sequer really shouldn't be a prerequisite to playing the game, even if most players will want to.

Teleporting to the new station lets me do that.  So does having Arkhes for sale from NPCs at all stations (but please not fitted, its such a pain to destroy all that Syntec stuff).

If I were in charge, we'd have teleports at 10k a pop to anywhere you've been before, 12 hour cooldown.  Requires an extension, maybe 12 hour cooldown is at level 5 and 10 hours at level 10.  We'd also have a new bot-type like an Arkhe but with no slots for fitting, a couple U of cargo space, and medium-high movement speed, for sale EVERYWHERE for about 50k.  Can't be recycled, can be resold to NPC for 40k.

Arga wrote:

I have some CT's in the factory that I wanted to check on and to start up a new production run on another. I had to slog all the way out there just to click the button. Of course if I needed mats the new spark teleport wouldn't help, but if it works as it sounds, that in itself is going to make the whole game just that much more pleasant to play.

Also, there are times at the end of my play night, that I just want to get back to my home station. Being able to dock up at a remote station, teleport back to ICS-Alpha outpost, check the market and log out would fantastic.

I think a side-benefit to the market would be players buying additional bots to have placed around. So instead of just needing 1 sequar, maybe I'll have 5 or 6 spread around different outposts, and I can move them around logistcally at slower times but have one handy if I need to move something quickly.

Um.. ok, that could be a problem to balance now that I think about it.

So moving resources from the purchase station to the factory involves driving out there and coming back with an empty cargo, repeat as needed. With spark transfer, I could have 10 sequars at the station, fill one up and drive to the factory, then spark back and fill up the next, after 10 I could package them up and put them in 1 sequar for the drive back; cutting the transport time by 50%.

Does this seem like an issue? The same could be done with transport missions; 10 one way trips.

Or maybe if your willing to spend the extra on more bots it balances out?

Now that we have the teleport, bots don't need to conveniently fit inside Sequers.  Make bots take up 100U.  You can move them one by one to sell, sell them in the station they are built, or best yet, have a really good reason to get a Lithus.

DEV Zoom wrote:

I'm thinking more along the lines of the energy collecting part of the story instead of robot pennies smile

I like that, it kind of reminds me of water in Dune.  When someone dies you take their energy because its such a precious commodity.  And humans don't know how to generate it, so extracting it from the native "life" is an efficient way to get it.

Annihilator wrote:

I would mostly use the spark for moving between outposts

remember, the spark port would only work from beta outpost/terminal > alpha terminal.
to get anywhere you would have to have spare robots at those alpha terminals.

The teleport itself would have to cost at least as much as a crafted small bot, or it would be missused to mass-create cheap arkhes.

Dev Zoom wrote:

The rules for this are far from final yet, but we plan to give you an option to teleport your spark (yourself that is, without any robots or items) to alpha terminals. You will probably need to pay a fee for this, but we believe this will be a useful logistics tool.

I interpret this as you can go from beta to alpha, and from alpha to alpha, not that you can only go from beta to alpha.  I don't see what the problem is going from alpha to alpha, like you said you need to have a bot there to do anything.

What's wrong with mass-creating cheap arkhes?  Remove the ability to recycle them or in any way extract value from them.  There should be a way to move about the world without being in an actual bot with value, similar to capsules in Eve. 

The primary use I can think of for this is to buy a bot at a different station than you are based in without having to go there in a sequer and haul the bot back.  Teleport there, buy the bot, drive the bot back.  You could also have combat bots in your mission station, mining bot in an outpost you use for production, etc, and switch between them easily.

I'm most excited about spark transport, but I think that will be one of the last things since they seemed fuzzy on how exactly it would work.

Looks like patch is being delayed until tomorrow.

http://www.perpetuum-online.com/System:Server_status

83

(5 replies, posted in Buying Items)

I have never seen one.

I'm hoping for some of the little changes I mentioned once.

85

(16 replies, posted in General discussion)

Wait, back it up.

Perpetuum has an endgame?

Furthermore, military characters benefit from heavy industry and R&D, because almost all the tanking skills have these as their primary or secondary.

Likewise, all-industry characters benefit from tactics and mechatronics because the robot control skills among others require these.

I am of the opinion that there is no incorrect starting build.  This is compounded by the unknown nature of future extensions added to the game.  I'll agree politics and economics seem to have limited usefulness currently, but the other two are needed for any and all career paths that involve undocking in a robot.

87

(2 replies, posted in General discussion)

WTB bumper stickers or less obnoxious window stickers.

..lacks motivation to have them printed.

88

(54 replies, posted in Balancing)

I don't understand Caithleen's point.

Arga, we are in agreement that we need more players.  I hear something is broken, and assume it can be fixed.  I see what you are saying though.

Reminds me of a thread I created over in General regarding the solution to all our problems...

Myles Norvid wrote:
Ral wrote:

stuff

Well, thank you captain obvious. roll

Also, how exactly can they afford ads, while having such a small playerbase (read: small revenue) ?

Ral wrote:

AC is an independent company, without a publisher, and I'm sure money is tight.  I suspect most of the development and initial bills were footed by private investors, so spending lots of cash on advertising may look difficult right now.
My argument is that all of the game's problems, including any financial ones that may exist, stem from low player counts, and an investment in advertising (even if it is leveraged), would pay itself off in new player subscriptions.

Leverage means debt.  Meaning they didn't make this huge game and pay all the people involved with promises or hopes and dreams, they had someone come along and say heres 20 million Euros, I expect the game to be profitable so I can get 100 million Euros back.

That's where the advertising funding comes from, because I argue that it is just as important as paying the Devs and keeping the servers running.

Crepitus wrote:
MoBIoS wrote:
Myles Norvid wrote:

EP disadvantage is the biggest problem PO has. And it will grow expotentially bigger with every passing month. There are like ~150-200 people online, which doesn't make this game a MMO.

Yet you still want the gap to grow even bigger. Good luck with finding new players.

I don´t mean to be rude, but you Sir, seem to be playing the wrong game or just do not understand how the EP mechanics work. I suggest you go back to square 1 and start to read the post from the beginnig, for some further enlightenment.

I would really *LOVE* for some of you "EP makes no difference" people to explain how it's possible that someone who has 5x as much EP as you isn't stronger in spades.

Take a simple example, basic robotics.  All my characters are blue, my combat guy has basic robotics at lvl 5.  This gives him a 25% damage bonus with EM guns, 25% more armor repair, and 25% extended falloff.  Going over lvl 5 is prohibitively expensive especially for someone with only a months worth of EP. 

If I'm fighting against another guy with the same skills but he has more EP total and therefore higher basic robotics (and probably other combat skills as well) he could have as much as a 25% damage/repair/falloff bonus OVER AND ABOVE MINE.  That's just 1 skill.  Having more EP can and does give serious advantages not just small ones.

It's also a fact that people with more EP, having played the game longer, also are far more inclined to have the money and research tech to be running around in Tier 4 fittings of all kinds.  These give even more bonuses on top of their EP ones.

Once again, the only people I see defending the vast gap in advantages provided are the people who currently have them.  I will also point out, once again, I'm not arguing the mechanic I'm arguing the vastness of the curve.  It will likely take at least a year for someone starting now to have a chance in hell against someone from early access and only in the case that they super-specialize.

Considering that PvP is the clear focus and draw of this game it's important that there be balance on all sides AND that it be there early or people will leave or simply go inactive which kills the market (just look at all the economy threads) among other things.

Going from 1-5 is far easier than going from 5-10.  If they are putting months of EP into a single skill, you could be putting that into a variety of lower rank and level skills and probably even the gap significantly.  Plus you picked the skill (robot control) that is probably the most effective on combat strength, but they are also very high rank (requires a lot more EP).

No one said more EP isn't stronger, it's just not gamebreaking.

Money has nothing to do with EP, this entire argument is centered around things you CAN'T grind out with more play time.  So your argument about resources is irrelevant.

Also I'm not one of the people with a huge advantage, I am just coming up on one month playing.  I played Eve and I understand the concept behind it the system.

91

(54 replies, posted in Balancing)

Arga wrote:

I totally agree that there are not enough players using the market, which is why it is broken.

But an intersting thing is, a large portion of the current population also doesn't use the market. Communist, vertically integrated alliances are mostly self suffcient so rarely need the market. This is usually beta alliances since they have access to all the raw materials directly, but Alpha corps that only buy Epitron could also be included if they only BUY that one commedity, but don't sell anything.

Also note, that new players that are integrated into the beta corps also do not help the market, so just adding more new players isn't really a fix either.

Nothing against the Beta alliance strategy, it works. I've also noticed some buy/sell orders for being put up recently that encourage transport players to do something other than missions, and this is probably a beta corp so some of them are helping the market even though its maybe not the most effcient.

The cost of manufacturing goods is so high that there's not much room for them to sell much cheaper. For example, a std Geoscanner is 200K on the market, the material cost is 189K. T4 frames for 1.79M, market cost to produce is 1.6M (your mileage may very depending on resource availablity).

So...the market isn't broken, there's just too few people and 95% of them are in one of two alliances that number in the hundreds of players.  When there's 10,000 active subscriptions, you won' t be able to have microcosm economies in corps, and the global market will need to hold everything together.

So basically what I said smile

When is the next episode?  Besides being greedy and wanting more, I think there is a point to be made that you don't want to lose momentum.  I think you should try to stick to a set schedule as soon as possible.  Get a date in peoples' minds when the next episode is coming out so we have it to look forward to.

One of the biggest things I hate about WoW is that I played at release and worked my *** off to get to level 60 over a period of months, to get a regular mount and then be one of the first on my server to have an epic mount, and to earn gear.

Now, you can get to level 60 in an afternoon, and your mount and epic mount are essentially given to you because now the thing to work for is flying mounts.  Does the fact that the game progressed mean that older players' accomplishments aren't worth as much?  I literally have nothing over someone who started playing a couple weeks ago and got to where I am, and that sucks.

The WoW rant is relevant because I *should* have something to show for playing the game however many years ago and putting in way more time than the new player did.  In Perpetuum this is the case.  But the point that the OP still seems to be missing is that more EP does not make you better able to compete in a real, meaningful way.  It only lets you do more with one character.

The other thing you are still missing is that you got in at the beginning!  The game has only been out for a few months!  You are going to be one of the people who has more EP than everyone else and you are going to be the one you are arguing against.  Unless the game doesn't make it (in which case the whole conversation is moot), we are in the top 1% a year from now.  Try to keep that in mind too.

Predator Nova wrote:

It's not ready yet to be heavily advertised. We need more space badly. Personally I don't think what the Devs are adding is enough, since it's still going to be too easy for established corps to seriosuly mess any newb up that decides to try and stake a claim in beta.

Eve had steady growth because it had the space available (5000+ Star Systems)for even solo players to venture out into lawless space and try to make something of themselves. PO does not....5000 star systems vs 6 islands, where can you hide better? smile

Expand to 50ish islands for the start, add more later. It's like we're on a mini planet at the moment...

I think that is the plan, but some past Dev commentry stated that its a lot of work creating new islands.  If you think about it it would be a lot harder than creating star systems, which could probably be automated.  I agree though that a much bigger game, say 10x bigger to start, would cater to many more playstyles.

Evolution wrote:

they could add one new feature

//add titanium X

x = amount

I thought I was taking care of that for you smile

95

(6 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

Jelan wrote:

damn trolls

Irony

96

(54 replies, posted in Balancing)

The market isn't broken, it just doesn't have enough people in it to run smoothly.  Capitalism depends on there being so many participants that things like price gouging and manipulation are impossible.  This is called the "efficient market theory."

PvP isn't supposed to generate income.  The theory that all jobs should produce income proportional to their risk is false.  PvP is fun, and you pay for that privilege.  I should make more mining than PvPing because mining is a job and PvPing is a game.  You don't get paid to go play paintball do you?  PvP-based characters should be able to generate income, but not through PvP.  Ratting should earn income, but I don't think it should be more than a miner or producer can make.

Regardless of what is right and fair (being paid for boredom not for risk), if ratting became worth more than mining, no one would mine.  Then your economy would be broken.

97

(27 replies, posted in General discussion)

Oh ok if you're talking about two accounts then that's almost exactly the same per account as USD.

I never said people aren't caring or that criticism isn't constructive.  Only that people are posting here in the first place because they need entertainment at work.

I doubt all these people would choose to post on the forums over playing the actual game.

Edit: typo

99

(27 replies, posted in General discussion)

Are you guys really paying 15 Euros a month?  Considering I'm paying 10 dollars (or less with multi-month deals), and 15 Euros is ~21 dollars, that seems...expensive.

Arga wrote:

I thought maybe some other new player not on rage-troll-quit would find my pixels useful, and I get bored at work )

I found it interesting, if maybe a little exaggerated.  But that makes it all the more interesting.  Perpetuum forums are 85% for entertainment when at work and unable to log in, and 15% meaningful communication about game issues.

PS Perpetuum is not for everyone.  It's not for most people.  But you likely won't find many kids playing on their parents' dime, or players who want things handed to them.  To me, this distills the player base down to people who know what they're doing and know how to work for something.  That is its biggest strength.  IMO of course.