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Rage Rex wrote:This is the question answered only with broad sweeping play2win cliche aimed at people who play with multiple accounts. Yet in the play2win complaint, 'follow' is barely a speck of an issue compared to multiple industry accounts.
This whole nerf is a sham aimed at ewar range.
This is just a first step in making the casual single acct player more competitive in pvp by lessening the competitive advantage of multi acct pvp users.
Something similar should probly be done for industry as well, but no since throwing the dishes out with the dishwater. May as well fix what we can now and try to fix others things when options become available to do so.
Its like pulling off a Band-Aid. Just rip that beech off...
Ville wrote:Honestly, screw terraformingreimbursements and lets get this thing wiped tomorrow!
Yep. Get rid of terraforming, screw tf reimbursement for everyone, and lets do this. Bring back tfing when its ready and change the gamma structure mechancs when those are ready. People can still build small gamma outposts under current mechanics if they want, knowing whats coming.
This whole time I thought Jita was just trolling us about a cargo exploit.. Lol, my bad. GJ Jita!
You of all people know the honor system wont work on this, lmao. So you think the big bad guys wont do it just because they can, that they will be nice and let everyone live happily together. Come on Ville...
If you limit the amount of terminals per island to a reasonable number, the island will never be said turtle. And I propose that if turrets shoot 1500km, that 3000km is not a larger enough distance between terminals.
The problem with that Ville, is that a small corp will have zero chance to build a gamma base as it can be taken over the first night they are there, by a bigger force. It would be nice to give the smaller corp a chance to build a ninja base with the knowledge that at the very least they have a couple days to try and get their *** off before the bigger corp knocks their base down. Or rings it with turrets and terraforming, to be more specific.
Ville wrote:I don't want to cut you down too much but I think you've seen a disconnect between what you want this game to do and what you think it does versus what the players actually do and what players want to achieve. Even if you make this change roaming gammas not going to be like roaming beta. The only thing your doing is letting gate campers have a chance and people who have max detectors. Honestly you fix nothing.
This isnt about making Gammas Like Betas and you know it. Gamma needs to be more dynamic and this is the first step.I can even dig up your forum posts advocating doing it if you need me to. At this point we just need to try and help the DEV's do it in the most effective way possible.
Other than Optikhan, I don't know of anyone really who doesn't want this change... At least anyone who has spent any time exploring gamma content anyway... I think you are sensationalizing the topic tbh.
No, everyone will just make it themselves. Corporations will have unlimited stockpiles of all of it, effectively eliminating the need for NIC. For some reason that doesn't sound right to me...
I am just saying that Gamma will remain empty if your base can be killed overnight. Having your base killed in 3 days time is a fairly big consequence. You can do other things, like make the enemy unable to place turrets within 2000km of enemy terminal or something. But I don't like that as much as just reinforcing turrets.
I just think it is bad for gamma to be able to effectively lose your base in an 8 hour time period. Even a Beta station takes days to take over.
Meh, I don't mind having to use NIC for stuff. Nic will have no use if you can build everything..
DEV Zoom wrote: I don't want to diminish the impact of this all, but that's a quite skewed view. If you were entertained during those 1000s of hours then you haven't lost anything what this or any game is primarily about.
Exactly. The Gamma Frontier has been a blast to explore. There have been plenty of bumps along the way, but I have had a ball spending time out here. But I think everyone who has spent time out here building their fortress realizes that things aren't exactly right.
I think the people that will be lost if things don't get fixed is WAY greater than the people that will be lost by resetting gamma. Lets get this *** fixed and explore the Gamma Frontier all over again!
Make turrets reinforceable along with the structure limits. This will at least give gamma base owners some measure of safety knowing their base wont be ringed overnight. It will be needed to give people the confidence to build back on gamma I think.
Allow terminals to auto tf underneath them upon placement. But then have a distance limitation from other structures that a terminal can be placed. 3000 km from any other structure, etc. Then you could only allow tfing within a certain radius of terminal if you so desire.
Don't reimburse tf charges, it will screw the market, and the wealth accumulated behind terraformed walls is probly more than enough to compensate anyway.
At what point do you begin wearing your pants on your head? Is that before or after you drop armored tp? 
There are a million small things you could do to keep a few extra players around. But the fact of the matter is a little bonus ep for new players isn't the magic fix you seem to think it is. Sure it might help, but its not the real solution or reason for the current state of the game. Having the game ready for steam, and steam itself is still the biggest and best thing the devs can do for the game atm.
I think sequer.nl does something similar if registered I think.
Supposedly they patched in something to make it less likely they will have to wipe characters. But who knows. But for the love of god they need a pause button. I have died 4 times today while reading/writing on the damn forums..
I answer its unfair to single acct users to not target the pvp class of multi acct users. And for this game to succeed on a larger scale. I think things need to be balanced as much as possible to those with only one acct.
And I am saying this as a 4 acct indy AND pvp guy...
By continually rolling all gammas until people stop walling off islands. Sad but true.
Rex Amelius wrote:[
Thus, I am saying that Follw is a niche target of the general 'Pay to Win' argument and is singling out PvPers while not affecting industry muti-boxing which is arguable just as 'unfair' in the muti-account arena.
Exactly!! So lets remove the follow command while pvp flagged and/or locking targets. That will help with the pvp issue. Then lets start another thread and discuss ways to do something similar for multiple industrial accts!
Just because this solution doesn't solve all the issues doesn't mean its unworthy of exploration and implementation. It just means there isn't a one sized fits all fix, and it may take several things to bring balance to the Force...
I am down with the removal of the follow command completely. I dont think everyone else is. Multiple accts will always beat one acct in this game. The idea is to lessen the gap between one acct and four.
And if it takes me having to drive each of my miners to the ore field manually or with autopilot to bring balance to the Force. I am willing to do it.
Shadowmine wrote:Just for the record, I am ok with removing it completely if that's what the DEV's think is best for the game. I just dont think they think that.
I think I would rather see it removed completely if only given that option. I have all day to drive my miners to the ore field on alpha. Not so in PVP.
This is not being done to nerf having multiple accts, regardless of peoples opinon on that topic. While this change would affect our ability to multibox in PVP. It still would not affect our ability to strip ore fields bare in a few hours time. This discussion isn't about the using of multiple accts, its about the way multiple accts are used. The sooner you realize this, we can continue the discussion.
We can have the multiple acct discussion in another thread. This is about the "Follow Mechanic".
I hate getting buried at the end of a page...
Just for the record, I am ok with removing it completely if that's what the DEV's think is best for the game. I just dont think they think that.
I think I would rather see it removed completely if only given that option. I have all day to drive my miners to the ore field on alpha. Not so in PVP.
This is not being done to nerf having multiple accts, regardless of peoples opinon on that topic. While this change would affect our ability to multibox in PVP. It still would not affect our ability to strip ore fields bare in a few hours time. This discussion isn't about the using of multiple accts, its about the way multiple accts are used. The sooner you realize this, we can continue the discussion.
We can have the multiple acct discussion in another thread. This is about the "Follow Mechanic".
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