Well i thought about this whole thing as well and i came up with an idea that could work, however i than scrapped it since i thought it would be too difficult to balance properly and also too complicated. Despite that i will share it with you...who knows maybe something good will come of it.

The basic Idea is also that you get points for kernels, however not just one big pool, but 9 (1 Structure, 4 Small[indu,blue,yellow;green] and 4 medium).

You would then have a research tree with tiers. The higher the tier, the more points you have to invest to unlock the technology. This way, unlocking essential items like mining modules would take far less work than unlocking items that benefit groups like nexus modules or remote equipment. Furthermore any item could have various prerequisites to be unlocked.

Every technology is also tied to one of 4 groups (small, medium, structure or independent) and 6 subgroups (mentioned before blue yellow green indu structure and universal).

To unlock a technology you have to use your points. The group of the technology and the group of the points have to match(except for independent, they will have different prices for every group) so you can only unlock structure technologies with structure points etc. The subgroups work a bit different: If you want to unlock a "blue" technology but you have only "green" points, you can do so, but you will have to invest twice(or any other value) the number of points. Universal technologies can be unlocked with any subgroup(except for structure, they are separate).


1.) LWF: Independant, Universal: Can be unlocked with any points except structure, has different prices for small and medium groups.

2.) Medium EM-Gun: Medium, Blue: Can be unlocked with medium blue points or medium yellow/green/indu points for a higher price.

3.) Medium armor plate: medium, universal: can be unlocked with any medium points.

If such a system is introduced existing knowledge bases could be "refunded" with the new prices in mind. This way also partly unlocked items would be converted into points. You would be able to instantly unlock everything you had unlocked before and possibly a bit more.

The system could also be extended with diminishing returns so that unlocking a technology from a tier makes all other technologies of this tier more expensive. The total costs to unlock everything would always be the same but the way getting there would be dictated by the current needs.

Another good point of such a system would be that it does still encourage trade of kernels while it also allows "single-players" to work towards unlocking just stuff that it is important for them.

So far my brainfart on that matter...

Here is my feedback on the points you wrote:

1+2 would be a good idea, knowing more before doing a mission for the first time is useful.

3 I think this will be difficult to add. Nobody will do them if they are "less good" than ordinary missions, and everyone will do them if they are better. You would need  a special case for when to do them(for example they could yield no relation bonus but more syndicate supplies?)

4 Difficulty is covered with point 1 i guess and for traveling maybe add that you can see all waypoints not just the first in the mission details. This should not spoil too much of the "story".

5+6. I don't know why this would be needed? Whats wrong with just doing the mission on the island you are on?

7 More assignments might add variety, but right now you can only do 2, at most 3 missions at once(cargo space restrictions) so i would put this at lower priority. Actual Squad missions (harder, but more rewarding and always squad-turn-in) might be nice too. They could require actual teamwork(something like "taking an active hack sap" while under attack by NPCs).

8 I have not mined that much lately so i cannot comment on that.


(23 replies, posted in Balancing)

would be possible, but even better would be just to destroy the modules and do another mission in the same time it takes to haul the worthless loot back. Its not the fact that you might miss out on some riches here but rather that even the loot generated in 5 minutes does not fit into a bot.


(23 replies, posted in Balancing)

@Norrdec fair point. It was going far to much into detail.

@Arjha Shanoo I think you are now more looking at the first point. Now the thing here is not that i want to shoot NPCs for hours and loot everything and take it back with my bot.

I was doing some Level3 mission the other day in an Arbalest. I killed a total of 12 light/assault NPCs(took no more than a few minutes), did not pick up any of the 1u large mission items twice and still was not able to take everything with me. Thats a bit sad if you ask me...


(23 replies, posted in Balancing)

Wow...i just make a hypothetical statement and that is the answer?

And its not just a current topic either. When they changed the teleport network i had to move a lot of stuff around. Was the least fun i had in the game so far and would have been over much sooner if i had a bigger bot...

You can like that or not but that is just what i think.


(23 replies, posted in Balancing)

So you are both answering to the second point i guess. I agree teleports are nice(i bit too nice if you ask me but thats a different issue) and help a lot and the 900u hauler is also nice(but also takes some time to train), but not enough. If i could be bothered i could probably mine 900u on my own(1bot) in an evening if i mine some high-volume ore. Why would i need the largest transport bot in the game to haul it away(keeping in mind the cargo is only worth 10-20% of the bot)?


(23 replies, posted in Balancing)

First i have to admit that this is not an original topic and has been discussed before. Its still (to me) an open issue though.

Second i was not sure where to post it - here or in the feature section - since both aspects, balancing and features are discussed.

The first issue came up recently when i was doing some combat missions after a long time. The problem of missions still is the travel time so you may think you should just accept multiple missions. But here you run into the problem that even if you are very "unlucky" with the loot you cannot hope to bring it all home in one run.

My suggestion is to at least double the cargo capacity of all standard combat bots (not arkhes, EW-Bots) and change items that are balanced around current cargo capacities accordingly (teleporters and such). Furthermore mission-specific items should have their volume decreased to 0.01u (containers, readings, etc.) to not waste cargo space.
I am not sure if mining-bots need the same treatment but it might very well be.

The second issue is that of transport bots and current loads. We need something bigger.

Edit: here was some text that was far to detailed.

That is actually a very nice idea. Keep the current kernel system but introduce another way that is disconnected from any form of combat. Learning to produce(prototype) the next higher item by building the item below (or learning it faster if given a ct of that higher item already) would mean a few people would start building stuff. That would accelerate the mineral market and the resulting modules would practically be sold without profit in large quantities for what today is T1 and T2 modules, seeding the market nicely.

With this method, an already "finished" prototyper could also share his knowledge by letting "new" producers build the advanced stuff.

The only disadvantage i see is that producing and prototyping, two formerly loosely connected professions become entangled. New extensions enhancing the learning process would also be necessary. It would take very long for a producer+prototyper to become competitive on the open market.

Another option i can think of is the possibility to make kernels manufacture-able requiring minerals/plant commodities. This way you could also mine to gather knowledge instead of shoot stuff.

Well most people dual-box in pvp by using a "boost-bot" with remote sensor amps, remote reppers and sometimes nexus modules etc. Most people only control only one pew-pew bot at a time.

Since this boost robots are almost always industrial bots you can train for them as pvp-support and still do some mining.

I myself do not use them and have to rely on corp-mates but that is not a big problem. They are mostly used for larger engagements anyway.

Player build structures are very nice, but you have be very rich and powerful to actually use them as intended. The entry-level is high for the current playerbase.

Edit: i have an edit button wink


(11 replies, posted in General discussion)

Fun fact: If you would evenly distribute all players among all islands you would not be able to detect the agent next to you.

Hey everyone

I just had a small idea and wanted to share it with you to get some input to see if it has any chance to fit into the game.

So my idea is this: First there must be more and longer highways (player-build even). Then you can introduce a highway-hacking-tool which reprograms a stretch of highway to slow you down instead of speeding you up(should only be usable on beta) for some time. There are no visual clues to this and the reprogramming gets triggered only if someone uses the highway(like a proximity mine).

In oder to complete the trap you need a cloaking-generator. This should work roughly like this: First you have to place it on the ground like a teleport beacon(not within range of another one and not near terminals etc.) and wait for it to charge up. Once it is charged up it cloaks all bots standing inside its range that do not move and do not have any targets/are targeting something/are targeted by something. The beacon is only visible if you are very close to it (50m or something) but very easy to destroy. If you enter the range of the cloaking beacon you are not cloaked instantly but there is a cooldown depending on the bot type(the smaller, the faster).

Now you can sabotage a highway and lay waiting for an unsuspecting traveler.
The cloaking beacon like a teleporter has a limited lifetime.

First of all i want to address the people who fear open world pvp would stop - really? So all mining bots an no one tempted to blow them up? And risk vs. reward: If reward is 0 the risk should be....??

But the arena as suggested here has some flaws. First of all i would not let people bring a bot - they should get a random one to prevent this becoming a testing ground for lolfits(maybe they should also give everyone some  skills that come with the bot).

Then it should not be a permanent place to hang around. More like the corp tourney with a time limit for a match. Also access should be limited somehow. There are a million choices: Pay nic for a match, find access card through artifact scanning on beta, max of 4 matches per day, only one day a week is "tourney day",...

Also it should not give out any reward. And no killmails. And teams must be random(again - not a training ground). The arena now has lost some appeal for senior pvp-ers but it should only really be a minigame.

Overall not very sandboxish but also nothing to be worried about. Suffice it to say there are a gazillion more important things this game needs than this arena...

In a patch a few weeks ago they did state that they reduced the drop rate of all cortices. They new beacons should not affect cortices in any significant way, but you never know. I did find however 2 Mech cortices in an observer stash.

Well before the Artifact-Update a cortex was nothing special, now the ct is far less valuable and the cortex becomes more important.

Ok first of all i have to say this is a great idea.

I hope it is balanced from the beginning so that it is really a goal to acquire these beacons and not something that you get just as a bonus for normal artifact scanning. Maybe these beacons should drop most of all in Tier1 artifacts (on beta)...those are worthless most of the time but still must be cleared to get new artifacts. Still i hope if you do some artifact scanning during the week you will get enough to have a few hours of fun on the weekend.

Too bad i can't play this weekend, but i will totally try it out next week to see how it works smile

Simple question i could not find an definite answer for:

Does the Spec Ops Skill affect the accu of all robots or just the ones that need this extension?

Thank you

I think Corp-Level research would need the whole system to be redesigned from scratch and resetting everything. I can see a lot of people who would not be very happy with that.

As a compromise you could make KB shareable(in Corp, say max of 3 people with access,just a thought), so that several people can prototype from one KB(If the "owner" of the KB stops to play you would still have access to it, but you could not progress any further).

Also you could make it so that you can exchange your KB(even partly) with someone elses. If someone stops to play he could simply give his KB to someone else.

Or you could form "reseach groups" where all new reseach is shared within the group but also all KB are available for everyone.

Just some ideas that could make corp-reseach obsolete.


(24 replies, posted in News and information)

What i mean is that it takes longer to kill the NPCs. The Devs know that this is basically a Nerf to your income, so they increased the plasma for these bots to compensate(even overcompensated by considering plates). They have not increased everything else though so the effective Drop-Rate of (H-)Mech kernels are reduced(less in the same time interval as before). Mech kernels should have been increased to 60%, H-Mech to 62.5% to compensate (not considering plates) to yield the same amount of kernels per time as before.

This does by no means mean that it is difficult to farm them...its just VERY boring to do so for so many hours and days even(of playtime).

I don't mind to put some work into it as well but in my mind it was already difficult enough with the static spawns, random spawns made it even worse and now this. What i want to know is if the system was regarded as too easy? Maybe the game becomes just too grindcore for me sad


(24 replies, posted in News and information)

Hmm i like most of it...but the HP increase of NPC-Mechs not only would have meant less plasma (what you covered) but also a 20%/25% reduction in droprates of anything else they drop: Modules, Ammo, the occasional Tx Item and most importantly...Kernels!

Now if the random spawns would have been "fixed" i wouldn't have said a word but there is no mention of that in the patchnotes, so why deliver yet another kernel nerf?

Doek wrote:

Most issues boil down to the market. It's true in this case too. If this is, as you say, a problem for corporations trying to compete on beta, where are their buy orders? If this system was so heavily exploited, where are the sell orders?

Rethink your argumentation, it's like Swiss cheese (yum!) now.

Well as soon as you got all kernels you need you will stop this stupid grind, wont you? Maybe occasinally kill some bots for the fun of it. So there are no kernels to sell. Instead you will go mining to produce items. You will also only mine as much as you need so you wont sell the items on the market, because at this point you have no use for any nic you might earn.

And Corps do buy kernels...but there are not nearly enough sold, or are sold for insane prices. And how do you get the money to buy kernels these days? Right farm some more NPCs as missions are even worse. And there are also other running costs you have to pay for so the NIC earned while farming kernels is actually needed elsewhere.

Still even if you could buy all the kernels...where do indu kernels come from? And how expensive would they be if someone really did sell them?

I tell you the recent NPC changes really hurt the current system.

@Cassius: I can understand your point of view as a solo player to have something to shoot for, however it gets more complicated when you try to be competitive as a corp and want to live on beta. To have a real chance to win a serious battle you not only need the manpower, but also the tech. You will loose stuff and must replace it regularly. The only way to do that is to prototype by yourself, buying items is far too expensive and also there is not enough supply.

Right now if you start as a new Corp with 20 active players you would need ages(literally) to get to the point where you can sustain yourself without help from outside. So the only way right now is to join in with veteran players that will help you. It is extremely hard to start something new, much harder than it was a few months ago.

Back when every Bot dropped a kernel the system was ok. After that, it was harder, but still doable. Right now you have to farm much longer to get the kernels you want and higher level indu-kernels are now not farmable at all any more as random spawns do not spawn indu mechs any longer(well they do but only once per day as it seems). So you cant even get proper mining equipment.

Also farming kernels, even with random spawns gets really boring after some time. There should be more ways to gather kernels...maybe let players drop some when they die in PvP?

@Cassius: I can understand your point of view as a solo player to have something to shoot for, however it gets more complicated when you try to be competitive as a corp and want to live on beta. To have a real chance to win a serious battle you not only need the manpower, but also the tech. You will loose stuff and must replace it regularly. The only way to do that is to prototype by yourself, buying items is far too expensive and also there is not enough supply.

Right now if you start as a new Corp with 20 active players you would need ages(literally) to get to the point where you can sustain yourself without help from outside.  Back when every Bot dropped a kernel the system was ok. After that, it was harder, but still doable.

Ok here is my view on the issue. During the last months, many changes were made that did indeed change the kernel flow. The droprate was reduced some time ago and with the recent changes to NPC-Spawns farming the required kernels is a lot harder or nearly impossible(High-end indu kernels for example). This means a new Corp right now has to farm about 10 times more(this is a wild guess) to be on the same tech-level as someone who farmed a few months ago. This is a very huge and dare i say unfair advantage for veteran players and Corps.

Also this system is not well balanced as it promotes large corps. They will get the farming done faster while small corps may never be able to get all the kernels. Also if a prototyper stops to play it would not take as long for a large corp to replace him...maybe they even have stockpiles of kernels.

The system itself also discourages kernel trade as it is always a good idea for a corp to have them in stock.

I think a solution could be to improve reverse engineering. You would have a choice to either do it the traditional way, so build a prototype end RE it. The new way would be to just take the item you want a CT of, add the decoder and after that some fitting kernels(or something else...robot parts, minerals you name it). The more kernels you use the better the CT will be. In the long run, the prototype method would be cheaper, but if you only want to create some item for yourself the extra costs for the kernels might not be as bad as buying the item from someone who just made 300% profit because he is the only one selling it.

This way new players can directly start to manufacture high-end items if they got enough materials to start the process and a constant stream of kernels afterwards.


(118 replies, posted in Balancing)

Well then...a simple thought experiment: Mechs seem to be fine, HMechs broken. Now lets look at the stats of both of them. The HMech is superior to a Mech in any way apart from Sensors and Speed. That means the HMech is the best tool to bring in any fight where speed doesn't play a role and you got enough support to boost your sensors.

There are only two situations where you can complain: 1.) Any form of PvP requires speed. 2.) EW is overpowered/no counter for EW

Now both things are game mechanics that have nothing to do with heavy mechs as they are now.

And another thing: The price always has to rise steeper than the effectiveness of a bot. Otherwise there would be no reason at all to use anything but HMechs as soon as you can use them. If it were more economical to use and loose HMechs than assaults for example the game would be very broken. Compare it to Eve if you will. A BS is 10 times more expensive than a cruiser...is it 10 times more effective? I guess not. Its a matter of how/when to use them.

The problem right now is that because of the two points i gave as examples, situations where HMechs are good in PvP are very rare at the moment. But again...that has nothing to do with the bots themselves. They are the most effective Bots for "important" PvP like Intrusions after all.


(50 replies, posted in Balancing)

I have to add a thing

I guess there occured a bug while the spawns were transfered to random-mechanic. Here is why i think so:

Yesterday i farmed a spot that had under the old system: 3x 4star HMech +3x 4star Mech

Yesterday the best single spawn in over 2 hours of farming (not counting the new darkstar spawns - we got 3 in total) was 2x 4th star Mech (only one single time) or 1x 4th star mech (more often).

So I guess while the old level of the spawn was "remembered" the number of mechs were reduced to 1 for that level so that now - of course - there is a lot of room to spawn lower level groups. The most regular spawn were: 2x 5star Light, 3x 2star EWLight, 3x 1star HMech, 3x 2star Mech, 2x 3star Mech, 3x 2star EWMech and some others in the same region. I guess this is empirical proof that during the conversion of at least this spawn there occured an error.  It should be an easy fix.

This still doesnt solve the looming problem of gathering indu kernels...


(50 replies, posted in Balancing)

Tasai wrote:

newer players don't farm t4 grophoes tongue

Newer (and/or solo) players usually dont farm on beta...its not a general problem with the new mechanic but a balancing problem of certain spawns.