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Lupus Aurelius wrote:Purgatory wrote:Annihilator wrote:a gropho with recharge bonus on maxed extension could permarun three medium repair modules...
like a Tyrannos atm too - with the difference that the Gropho has:
30% more hitpoints to buffer,
1 more headslot for additional repair tuning
1 more legslot for ERP / injector /accumulator / Resist
50% more offensive potential
60% more Buffer Accumulator
and unlike other heavy mechs - it doesnt really need more AP for its two more weapons.
if you compare it to other heavy mechs, the difference in average consumed AP increase vs. average recharged AP is way better when you look at Tyrannos<>Gropho then Artemis<>Seth
also, smaller accumulator can have advantages too, especially with a recharge bonus on it.
So a dev tested the new recharge bonus gropho on the test server with all level 10 extensions and it could NOT run even 2 medium repairers, and now you're here saying it can run 3? Don't post incorrect information.
Small accumulator is somehow better with a recharge bonus? Your logic is failing hard once again.
Could not even run 2 medium repairers!?!?!?!?!?! No bot or mech can do this currently, without either energy injectors or remote energy transfer, nor should they be able to.
Let's look at this again. Total weapon usage of 6x T4 medium launchers running continuously, as the Gropho currently is, is 1.43 AP per sec, with an AP recharge of 4.5 AP per sec.
That is a net gain of approx. 3 AP per sec. (unique to heavy mechs, the only one with a base recharge net gain during continuous weapon fire.)
6x T4 lasers consume 51.5 AP per sec
6x T4 EM Guns consume 35.3 AP per sec.
6x T4 Autocannons consume 1.43 AP per sec.
The higher accumulator size on the other mechs is due to their native weapon systems ( firearms are a terran introduction, not used by the natives, per the backstory). So the Gropho has a longer recharge time, but starts off with an AP gain vs weapon fire, Seth and Mesmer have a higher AP recharge, but burn AP 25.5x to 35.5 times faster than the Gropho's missle launches.
No one has stated wht the accum or recharge on the test server was, so there is no data to run calculations. Also, it might just work out to have the same recharge it currently has.
Also, considering the native bonus of the Gropho, shield absorption, why would one even attempt an active armor setup with 1 repper, never mind 2? Logically, a shield tank, with rechargers or energy injector would be the normal configuration. Jacking up the recharge rate would serve no purpose other than making that tank even stronger, with a weapon AP burn of only 1.43 AP per sec.
Because they're taking away the shield bonus on Gropho? Btw, with highest accumulator size, highest recharge, extra leg/head slot, highest hp, and new found resist bonus, Seth is the new fotm. Lemon will be happy. Triple repped AC Seth coming near you, prepare to be bulldozed. 
Or did you think it can be broken by pathetic missile dps? Or blue mechs, being naturally weak against yellow, stand a chance, especially against the resist bonus on largest hp pool?
Dazamin wrote:Being a poor noob myself I have no idea if what Aeon is saying is true, but if it is, that is an issue. The Drawback of T3/T4 is higher fitting requirements, part of the purpose of those higher fitting requirements is to restrict full T4 fits, forcing you to make a decision on what to downgrade, if that doesn't happen then T4 is just straight out better, its 'Drawback' is meaningless. Unfortunately, Sabre is probably right, if you nerfed bots CPU / Reactor, noobs would have a problem fitting anything, due to the high number of secondary fitting skills (Far too many imo, but thats another thread), you could however further increase the fitting reqs for T4 gear to obtain the same result.
In regards to the way LWF scales through the tech levels, I think it fits with everything else, higher fitting / better performance. In the Armor Rep example the OP used, the higher AP usage would be viewed as part of the 'Fitting Drawback' which is CPU, Reactor and Accumulator Usage. If a module is passive like a LWF it just gets a CPU and Reactor Drawback, all other stats would be improved.
@Sabre, I don't see why everyone would crosstrain to blue if LWFs were nerfed, everyone would be in exactly the same position as they are now, just slightly slower. For PvP the issue is not absolute speed, but your speed relative to the speed of the people you are fighting with and against. Your Chameleon would still be faster than anything else, it would be slower, but so would the mech you were chasing down to tackle. I would be interested to see how the game would change if the LWF was nerfed to a level where it became a real choice of whether to fit one or not. Maybe it wouldn't work, and further game play changes would have to be made, but I think everyone would agree that fitting for speed shouldn't be the only way to PvP
You'd only need around lvl5s in fitting skills for a "full" t4 fit on combat mechs. But then that "full" fit has small rep and 2 weapon slots left empty (2x missile for gun mech, 2x gun for missile mech). Fittings get tighter as you go up to t2 mech/heavy mech. Fittings for industrials are tight at any levels.
Annihilator wrote:before you start talking further about fitting requirement drawback in this topic:
have you ever looked at how much CPU/Reactor a LWF needs??
standard: 5 TF + 2 RP,
T4 7 TF + 3 RP
and those are lowered by certain extensions.
Requirements may be low compared to other mods, like medium guns, etc, but they're meant to be used on all sized bots, not just mechs and up. Increasing cpu/reactor would be a gimp to small bots.
Neoxx wrote:Sabre906 wrote:What happens when the playerbase grows? Would you have to pay to add every neut corp in the entire game out?
Why would you need to restrict neutral corps? I see this as a privilege to keep select corps out, not a right that comes with owning the outpost. So dont look at it like "Now I cant keep everyone out! That sucks!" but more like "Now I CAN keep people out when I want to, but for a price."
I'll bite. The number of corps that you'd want to keep out can go into the thousands soon enough. Do you think the player base will always remain so tiny? It took around a year for Eve to exceed that scale. You should have more faith in Perpetuum.
What happens when the playerbase grows? Would you have to pay to add every neut corp in the entire game out?
Even if free, the task of typing in thousands of corp names to the restriction list would be unrealistic.
AgY wrote:They use 1 AP (Light) and 2 AP (Medium) no matter which Tier. While EM-Guns use
3-5 AP (light) and 30-40 AP (Medium).
*10 is still ~half the AP a EM-Gun needs. Has nothing todo with hate 
Simple mathematics.
Maybe we should also double missile dps, and halve its weight. In fact, why don't we just make all weapons exactly the same? Then it's all fair and nobody can complain. 
AeonThePiglet wrote:Sabre906 wrote:T4 mods here takes more cpu and reactor to fit, same as in Eve. T4 lwf here gives more bonus and less drawback than t1, same as nano structure in Eve. Moving from t1-t4 here means more bonus and less drawback, but more fitting requirement. Moving from t1-t2 in Eve means more bonus and less drawback, but more fitting requirement. I don't see the difference. This is also the case in other mmos, as is the whine from those who can't reach the grapes. 
What you said:
Sabre906 wrote:It's working as intended. Expensive higher lvl items have bigger bonus, along with lesser penalty in cases that apply, in most mmos. Eve, which this game borrowed heavily from, use the same system, so it's no surprise. It's widely used and tested system that avoids unnecessary balancing issues, since you don't end up with higher items being inferior to lower ones.
Trenchant part of my reply:
AeonThePiglet wrote:Factually incorrect. In Eve, t2 gear has much higher fitting requirements in return for better performance than t1. T1 meta 1-4 mods are mostly easier to fit rather than better quality. Meta mods are not preferred for pvp except when attempting to make secondary gear work in a fit (so a m4 medium neut is fine, but m4 guns are absolutely NOT a replacement for t2 guns).
This game generally sees bonuses increasing and penalties decreasing when moving up the tech levels. I don't like that; it means that t4 mods strongly dominate when fitting choices are made, removing the strategy aspect (which mods am I willing to downgrade so that I can fit the important ***?).
You'll note that my focus in the not bolded part of the reply is on increasing the number of interesting decision points when fitting rather than the newbie experience. Assuming I have all the gear handed to me free I have no reason, fitting wise, to use anything other than t4.
In eve, even with AWU4 (damn near no one gets 5) and max (other) fitting skills, when fitting a cane out for combat I need to fit a couple of meta mods, or downgrade the size class of a couple of the utility items to keep them t2. This was an interesting decision. Here, bigger tier better gear, never ever downgrade.
Now, if you're seriously going to accuse me of whining because I can't get *** RAT NAOW, I'ma have to ask you kindly to stuff it. Been playing Eve for years, and I consistently argued for improving the newbie experience and giving them a better shot at winning because, unlike you, I neither need nor want leet gear to win. I want a just out the gate newbie to be competitive because I understand that that's the best way to get people playing and fighting. It also means fewer boring *** fights where I stomp somebody, and more awesome fights where I'm flying by the seat of my pants and just barely keeping ahead or, better yet, just barely losing.
I'm not gonna stop *** about the delta between newbie gear and vet gear just because I end up with a pile of it myself. Which I will. Our indy guys are that good. I'll stop when I see that newbies are able to get to vet quality gear in a week or so, and that after that they're adding OPTIONS rather than bonuses. Options. Those are the fun thing. +1 to laser range, lame. A new way to engage? Awesome.
T4 does require more cpu/reactor to fit. So for all that wall of text, you're just saying cpu/reactor of bots should be gimped so they can't fit all t4? Once that's done, noobs who don't have lvl10 of a dozen fitting skills won't even be able to fit t1. 
This still sounds like a whine. Why don't we all just run around in arkhes? There's nothing wrong with people fitting t4. There is something wrong with your method of thinking. Instead of elevating yourself, you want everyone else to discard their gear and come down to your level. That's not going to happen.
tl;dr - I can't afford/don't want to risk t4, thus, it should be gimped so that nobody can use it.
AeonThePiglet wrote:Sabre906 wrote:It's working as intended. Expensive higher lvl items have bigger bonus, along with lesser penalty in cases that apply, in most mmos. Eve, which this game borrowed heavily from, use the same system, so it's no surprise. It's widely used and tested system that avoids unnecessary balancing issues, since you don't end up with higher items being inferior to lower ones.
Factually incorrect. In Eve, t2 gear has much higher fitting requirements in return for better performance than t1. T1 meta 1-4 mods are mostly easier to fit rather than better quality. Meta mods are not preferred for pvp except when attempting to make secondary gear work in a fit (so a m4 medium neut is fine, but m4 guns are absolutely NOT a replacement for t2 guns).
This game generally sees bonuses increasing and penalties decreasing when moving up the tech levels. I don't like that; it means that t4 mods strongly dominate when fitting choices are made, removing the strategy aspect (which mods am I willing to downgrade so that I can fit the important ***?).
T4 mods here takes more cpu and reactor to fit, same as in Eve. T4 lwf here gives more bonus and less drawback than t1, same as nano structure in Eve. Moving from t1-t4 here means more bonus and less drawback, but more fitting requirement. Moving from t1-t2 in Eve means more bonus and less drawback, but more fitting requirement. I don't see the difference. This is also the case in other mmos, as is the whine from those who can't reach the grapes.
Pak wrote:Alexadar wrote:I dont like situation with lwf, because lwf now is like "musthave" module. For now, one leg slot is most probably used by lwf, what is not good for perpetuum.
Options to fix situation imo:
1. Increase lwf HP penaltie twice.
2. Increase robots base speed, and decrease mass reduction of lwf.
3. Remove lwf from game, increase base speed of robots, increase speed nexus effect.
4. Remove lwf from game, add ability to speed up using accumulator.
They already told us what they'll do. It's point 2: Increase robots base speed, and decrease mass reduction of lwf.
It's not that LWF is must have, but rather speed itself is must have. If you mess up LWF by introducing something stupid, like large hp penalty, then the mech with the fastest innate speed in game will be the next "must have," then everyone and their mother will crosstrain to blue. This sounds pretty much like a whine from people who can't afford t4 lwf.
Lupus Aurelius wrote:Because the Gropho:
-has an AP net gain with weapon fire, unlike the Mesmer, which means it can take alot more neuting, and still fire and run shields, before going dry.
-Because medium neuts with max skills on an ictus will only exceed weapon range of Gropho by less than 100 m, and would have to get in weapon range of support mechs and bots to utilize t, unlike the Mesmer, which it will exceed weapon range by 300-400m.
And, to borrow from stEVE:
Because of Gropho!
You don't need to stay outside of missile range, they do so little damage, it's not a blue mech. Neut is op in this game, unlike in eve. Once you're neuted, you get dry relatively fast and stay dry. Missiles do not fire with no accumulator at all, which is no different than laser. The difference is filmsy tank with no shield and no resist bonus.
Is this some kind of nerf zenith whine? I don't see people getting the sarcasm though.
Zenith has more hp than any other ewar mech, in addition to resist bonus, plus same number (3) of leg slots as any other ewar mech, and extra head slots. Resist bonus would definitely benefit Zenith more than any other ewar mech, as it has the largest hp pool. Taking away resist bonus would be a big nerf, ppl tend to shoot whoever's demobbing them whenever they can...
And no, ewar mechs aren't supposed to be tougher than gun mechs.
It's working as intended. Expensive higher lvl items have bigger bonus, along with lesser penalty in cases that apply, in most mmos. Eve, which this game borrowed heavily from, use the same system, so it's no surprise. It's widely used and tested system that avoids unnecessary balancing issues, since you don't end up with higher items being inferior to lower ones.
Lupus Aurelius wrote:Annihilator wrote:mesmers that are fast, long range and can repair while using weapons
grophos that can permarun repair while shooting out of cover over long ranges (not to forget the locktime bonus and granted dps against even the smallest targets)
Fast seth with long-range weapons, resist tank (=faster self repair for less AP)
wheres the difference then?
Well, you stated the differences right there.
Mesmer that can repair while using weapons have a counter, the Ictus, or any neutralization. Also, I doubt that can be sustained without remote energy tranfer for very long, so the mech doing the transfer is also vulnerable, in combat range and capable of being neuted as well.
Gropho that can permarun it's defense, at high range, which makes it easy for it to fall back out of damage range, or use landscape to hide from damage, but still able to permarun it's weapons. Not much counter there, is there, considering the range of neuts, and that they re LOS as well. Ewar possibly, ECM or Suppressors, but all that AP still keeping those shields going.
Seth, buffer tank, really only works in extended engaements if there is remote rep, so same arguement as the Mesmer, and will probably still need remote energy transfer as well.
How does neut work on Mesmer but not Gropho? The neut in this game is quite OP compared to in eve. When you're dry, you're dry, and neither missile nor anything else can fire. Gropho has the least accumlator pool among the 3, plus neither buffer nor speed. Once that shield goes down it's over. It has half the dps of others, too slow to run, and too little hp to outlast.
Yes, anything that I can't pilot/afford, or just don't want to risk, must be OP, and must be banned from island. Buff me, nerf you.
Take some time farming and get some decent gear. Pvp doesn't exist in vacuum, it's pve supported, here as well as in eve.
AgY wrote:Ergh, ok well its a step forward but you say it yourself:
DEV Alf wrote:At the current state of the dev server, where gropho has accu recharge and seth has resist, gropho almost permarun 2 medium repairer
A gropho can use almost 100% of its AP for tanking, while seths and mesmers need most of the AP for their weapons (still).
Anyway .. its a step into the right direction. But AP usage of missiles needs to change.
Then it will have to be balanced through higher dps, or something else. On the mech lvl, and soon, heavy mech lvl, the green's low dps plus yellow high resists means the intentional rock paper scissor mechanic do not apply as much for green to yellow compared to between blue to green or yellow to blue. Taking away shield tank, without compensating for it, would mean both rock and paper beating scissor, and will break balance in a big way.
Alpha island sites will quickly run out of room if combat missions are buffed. Space is big, islands are small, there just isn't enough room on existing islands in perpetuum to create eve style pseudo-instance for every missioner.
AeonThePiglet wrote:Production does seem to gobble a bunch of nic in terms of actual cost charged by npcs to use the facilities. So building bots is a sink of sorts.
As far as the mineral and component costs of modules, I agree that they're way out of whack relative to the cost of the bot. If a single mod on my bot costs as much as the entire bot and that mod is not a god button of some kind, then something is out of whack.
As an aside I'd personally like to see a system for quick and easy purchase of temp blue on beta islands. So you'd show up, mine, do your building on the island and then haul it off to whatever market hub you want. Shoot a blue and you get turned red instantly.
Corps could turn it off, but it'd be a great option for those who want to build little open market zones in beta.
Mara Kaid wrote:Syndic wrote:I can give you some instructions in politics.
Lesson 1:
BLAH BLAH BLAH ZERG BLAH BLAH BLAH. ZERG ZERG DERKA DERKA DERKA JIHAD!!!!
BLAH BLAH IF DONT ZERG DERKA DERKA BLAH BLAH
FOOM MAKE ME ANGRY DERKA DERKA DERKA DERKA
As we've stated elsewhere (SovNov Statement of Intent) we're DERKA DERKA DERKA
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq18 … ICRAGE.jpg
Game economy seems to have picked up, we're making tons of money selling t4 mods from kills.
I enjoyed this post and hope to see others of a similar nature in the future.
Mods aren't out of line in terms of cost. In eve, a t2 hardner cost around 1 mil isk, and that's in a mature economy, while a frigate cost around 100k. Light bot = frig, assault = destroyer, mech = cruiser, and heavy mech = bc. This game doesn't have large gun or bs equivalent yet. Use t1 or t0 to fit that light bot, t4 is supposed to be expensive, and is never meant to be fit to light bots to begin with.
There need to be a cost curve on items for any mmo, where getting the best requires seemingly more effort than the benefits it gives. If top of the line items are cheap and easy to obtain, it would remove depth from the game.
As for renters...
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/34/2l95bfk.jpg/
Rutarr wrote:Whilst I can empathise with the scout I do not think this is a good idea. If you want to scout or monitor a location then you should expend at least your attention to this task.
What you propose would allow the corp to setup an alt at each location of interest and monitor it while alt tabbed to another application.
To take this to an extreme you could then setup each of those alts computers with a teamspeak account with the names being something like "Belluchia Teleport alarm" and have voice ativation turned on. When someone you dont like comes through it would make its alert noise that is heard by the microphone and relayed to TS where anyone in the corp could listen in and have real time intelligence on the comings and goings of neutrals across a very wide area.
Seems a bit too easy and low risk for the gains.
This already happens. You dual screen/listen for the teleporter crack, while playing another alt.
Saha wrote:Sounds good, though I believe Seth will still be slower than Gropho?
5% accu recharge is a bit useless outside shield tank considering Gropho has no issues with AP. Though I guess it's a nice thing to have different gameplay heavy.
DEV Calvin wrote:Mesmer:
Yagel, Arbalest, Kain:
Should have small magnetics optimal increased by about 20% as well. Even with sharpshooting at 10, arbalests/yagels sit at 150 meters range with close to 0 falloff which makes those bots pretty much useless.
Please change magnedart ammo to something usefull as well, since atm it's the only faction ammo which is 100% useless outside suicde bot role due to explosion radius (100 meters optimal on mesmer/kain, 35 meters optimal on yagel/arbalest).
DEV Calvin wrote:All turret robots:
Great news!
Note that Gropho, which already has the lowest accumulator capacity, had it decreased further, so it's a nerf for shield tanking. And no, cap regen doesn't matter with a blob shooting at you.
Falloff nerf is also a gimp. Despite what people say, falloff is a huge factor that's utilized every time someone activates a gun outside of pve. You will feel this nerf in game, as you can no longer activate guns at the range you're used to. In many pvp situations, falloff dps is the only dps many people in heavy end up getting to do. They will now do no dps. Lupus's disingenuous wall of text make it as if falloff doesn't count, in order to achieve his goal of convince devs of his "buff me, nerf you" ideas. The side effect of that will bite everyone in the ***.
Falloff nerf in favor of alleviating nonexistent cap issues (blob on either side will have finished off you or the target long before cap runs out) is an effective nerf.
Balancing to mechs shouldn't be done according to pve, only pvp. If you want to balance pve, change the rats.
Supported. Gauss needs a buff.
The only real measure for balance is usage. Nobody uses them in pvp, which is pretty good indication that they suck, and thus need a buff. Anyone can argue over what stats mean until they're red in the face, but it's people's action that says it all, not their words.
Lupus Aurelius wrote:Other than offering subjective opinion, nothing you have stated is based on objective data, therefore it is you who's arguements "...get worse with each try... really"
And, if the data were not valid:
Why did so many ppl respec to Pelistal?
Why do you not see Seths, or for that matter, many Mesmers, in incursion PVP?
The real issue here is because people did respec, due to the LOS, AP, and speed issues, and then heavily invest in retooling to Grophos for incursions, and are more interested in protecting that, than an actually balance that allows for an active role in PVP, and Incursions, for the other heavies. "OMG, if they buff Mesmes and Seths, or nerf Gropho's. wewill no longer have that advantage!!!"
For the most part, that is what I see here as far as the negative responses. You want you arguements to be taken seriously, present DATA that supports your arguements. Otherwise, it's just opinion.
ATM, Mesmer and Seth are good for farming, though you have to energy transfer the Seth to sustain it, but have little on no role for PVP, due to the inbalance between them and the Gropho.
You pretend as if any "DATA" supports your thinly veiled attempt at "buff me, nerf you" whine, when the rest of us see nothing of the sort. At almost twice the dps, more range (yes, even since you use missioner missiles that give extra range and same dps for comparison, and yes, falloff counts as range), spike dmg, Theolica is on par, if not better, than other two races.
Btw, you use autos on Seth for farming. And Gropho is fine for farming, you just use short range ammo and on yellow rats. Cap is a problem for pve if you fit lasers, but balancing shouldn't be according to pve, but rather pvp. It is almost a non-factor in pvp.
Batolemaeus wrote:Syndic wrote:Because Corp A will fit their light bots in T4, you'll still be fitted in T1, and you'll still be in the same position where you are kited & killed, or chased down & killed. There is nothing wrong balance-wise with mech speeds, the T1 vs T4 balance is a good incentive to grind kernels.
What would really happen with T1 light bots being faster then mechs:
1. Whole server would swap to T4 lights as new FOTM, cameleons intakts and troiars would replace the current EW mechs being used because speed > all.
2. T1 lightbots would become the old EW gangs, engage and disengage at will and run away with superior speed.
3. Every mech pilot would see his bot become completely useless for roaming outside of intrusions which never happen anymore.
That does not make sense. You're doing so many leaps in logic you're downright bunnyhopping.
Preserving speed scaling over all types of bots so that a t1 lwf equipped lighter bot is always faster than a t4 lwf bot of higher tier is not going to upset balance at all. It won't lead to light bot roaming gangs either. I can't even follow how you come to that conclusion.
Lighter bots still lack firepower and range. You are conveniently ignoring that and I find that rather disturbing.
Heavy hitters always should be at a disadvantage when it comes to mobility. No exceptions, not even with better gear. Otherwise everything below will immediately become obsolete and entirely redundant.
By this same line of reasoning, a t4 fit assault should never be able to out dps a crap fit mech no matter what. We shouldn't even have t4 mods, just remove everything from the game that's not t1.
It's the poor man's variation of the "buff me, nerf you" whine, where anything that he can't afford is unbalanced and thus must be nerfed.
Cost = balance. You get what you're willing to put on the line. Those unwilling to risk the nic/resources don't get to win.
Lupus Aurelius wrote:Again, nobody said anything about making them all the same, nor about making the Seth "uber". What is being indicated by the data is that the Gropho has significant advantages over both the Mesmer and the Seth.
The AP issue should be glaring to everyone, and no one can deny the Gropho's advantage there. Any addition of modules increase the AP usage on the Gropho, but that also is the case with the Seth and Mesmer, and they are already starting with a negative net regen.
The other 3 issues that stand out, is that as the longest range heavy mech, it probably should be the slowest. Looking at all the other Pelistal bots and mechs, you find that all of them are slower than the comparable Thelodica and Nuimqol bots/mechs.
Either that, or it should keep its speed and have it's range reduced further. This would be consistant with the other bots and mechs (excepting the waspish, which I wll leave for another to show how insanely OP t can be).
Thirdly, the fact that the Seth has a shield bonus, which no other Thelodica bot has, and that all other Thelodica bots/mechs have either an AP regen bonus or a resist bonus, plus lacking the AP regen to handle a shield tank, should be a clear indication of an issue.
EDIT: Again, on the damage issue, many here convienently forget that missiles go over landscape features that turrets do not. Therefore, as far as actual applied DPS, the Gropho probably has a higher rate of actual delivered DPS,, with fewer shots hitting landscape features. Whereas the Seth does have a significanly higher DPS, as noted in the original post, over a 800 m range, the likelyhood of getting a clear shot can be significantly reduced, thus "balancing" it's DPS potential.
Do Grophos carry inflatable hills with them? Do missiles have no guidance failure? Do they have much more than half the dps of your gun mech? How often do gun shots get blocked? Half of the time? How much is "significantly reduced?" Do falloff not count as range? What kind of missile pilot use "Heat IX" seismic missioner ammo for that range bonus with same paper dps, as opposed chemo ammo that can be manufactured?
If you like missile so much, crosstrain for it and enjoy your low dps, guidance failures, and watch as you get sniped for crit dmg in low falloff without being able to launch missiles, since you don't have falloff, while they backtrack at the same speed as you crawling forward.
Rokas Onformaris wrote:Rodger Wilcoe wrote:13. No. The point doesn't really matter as it is the rate which is important.
Actually the point does matter, because once you dip below 50% your recharge is LESS. If they move it to 35% that gives more time for you to get your recharge, because as is, in PvP all you have to do is bet someone below 50% and their bot will most likely no longer be cap stable.
Current system the peak recharge RATE (nudge nudge) is around 50%, the further from it, the lower your recharge RATE (nudge nudge). It should be moved to 35% so you can actually use more of your accumulator then just 1/2 of it.
Why not move it to 0%? I never liked the 33% curb in Eve. If there's going to be a curve, make it run all the way.
Alrione wrote:Arga wrote:The trouble with RL analogies is they break down very quickly. While I studied engineering my friend couldn't care less about math but is an awesome salesguy. Is he capable of learning engineering, probably, but it doesn't come easy and he's not willing to fight for the knowledge. When you want to play an indy guy, you choose the path you want them to take, and then it's just assumed that the agent had an affintiy for that path. Thinking you have an engineering genius that was forced through the military path seems like an awkward way to rationalize being able to move ability points from combat to industrial.
I did not mean moving points from one side to another.
Sorry should have been more clear.
All I meant is literally per skill basis, if someone "fights" for that knowledge, they surely would get slight decrease to costs of later levels.
I dont mean that past lvl 4 all skills should be trained same rate for everyone 
Something like: Im an indy, but I really want to learn for this heavy bot.
While someone who is specced for heavy bots will use, for example, 200 points for level 10.
Someone who is an indy, but stuck through this, should get slight cost decrease. ie instead of 500, lvl10 would cost 450.
And this way is certainly very different from eve where bonus gets applied across the border.
Supported. This game really need attribute remaps with cooldown (half a year to a year or so), as opposed to account reset with steep penalty past first time. There is no cap on EP, the only reason for EP reset would be chasing the fotm, which should not be encouraged. There should be a way to remap attributes independently from EP, without incurring the steep penalty and lose the character.
suDndEth wrote:i got an idea why dont we give all bots the same range, dps, speed, rof, and los advantages just say they are using different weapons and give different animations? Come on think here. I've got numerous different ideas of how to counter it. Maybe start playing in the sandbox a little before you start thinking something is OP'd and try some counter tactic first.
And Accum recharge is not a valid argument cause:
#1 You/They will be dead before it becomes into play.
#2 Energy Injectors nullify the problem
He wouldn't like that idea, as it would gimp his dps by almost half. What he really wanted was for his Seth to have the cap of Gropho, speed of Mesmer, while keeping his dps, spike dmg, range, buffer, and extra head/leg slot.
See how he conveniently phrase Seth dps as "more" than Gropho, without adding that its in the neighborhood of 2x as much. Or how falloff somehow doesn't count as range, but missiles with guidance failure still count as dps. How Mesmer's speed, range and dps is compared to Gropho, for gun -> missile comparsion, instead of the other heavy mech with guns. God forbid it might make Seth look op. How "Heat IX" missiles are used, to give Gropho extra range for the same dps, as opposed to something that can be manufactured, like... chemo. How landscape rises only need to be "slight" to block shots, as if its light bots down low on the ground, as opposed to heavy mechs. How shield bonus is useless for Seth despite high base cap further amplified by mods, because nobody ever fits ACs.
tl;dr - Buff me, gimp you. 
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