26

(126 replies, posted in General discussion)

Tracking is already in game. Difficulty of medium guns tracking light bots here is about the same as medium guns tracking frigs in Eve. In other words, Mechs will still snipe you from afar. Firing arcs won't help as bots turn instantly and with recent assault nerf, there's no sneaking up on them to the effect where you're close enough to get under their tracking. This balancing probably has more to do with having no prop mod in game and no targeting resolution based on size.

Shaedys wrote:
Sabre906 wrote:

There's about a dozen whines from green pilots that OP conveniently left out in his disingenuous wall of text. Everyone has something to whine about for their race. If there ever comes a time when someone is actually happy with their bot, you know something is unbalanced. lol

If OP believes half of what he is sprouting, he'd have crosstrained ages ago. But since he already knew how that will turn out, he prefers to whine instead until his preferred bot from one of 3 already balanced races is renamed the God Machine. Oh wait...

Norrdec wrote:

I remember you guys running away with long range fit grophos after you failed an intrusion after the respec and we had mixed party
Guys if you want a balanced game go play chess. There is not a single MMO that is balanced in the way you want to. Grophos are not the one and only choice for PVP. Nothing is. Except for a super skilled wasp. It's the small god machine

Toku wrote:

So you want all bots to be the same? Shall we all drive VW bugs too?
Looks like you are the one QQ over minor differences. if you are unhappy in your current mech, drive a different one instead of trying to get nerfs implemented to fit your idea of whats right.
It looks like you spend way too much time worrying someone else has any advantage and you want everyone to be the same. (balance) is a fantasy. If I was your boss on earth I'd fire you so fast for wasting company time! Get to work pulling resources from the ground and send it on.. that's your job! Leave the designs to the designers, it's not your task.

If you actually believed his argument to be flawed at any point then you could address some of his actual arguments instead of attacking his persona. The posts presented make no refutation of any arguments.
Is there anything wrong with the specific arguments that he presents?
If not, then they are valid and cause for change.

Refutations? I don't see how that disingenuous wall of text even deserves a serious response. OP pretends pvp is all about cap stability and not at all about gank/tank. It's not so much about the cherry-picked points he posted as what he conveniently left out.

Apparently, the perfect solution is making yellow the same as green: Cut dps to almost half, remove spike dps, remove falloff, remove resist bonus on mechs, remove buffer, in exchange, make heavy mech slightly faster and cap stable. If this doesn't sound like the kind of tradeoff any yellow pilot would be willing to make, its because OP didn't actually want "balance," but rather remove racial weakness of his race while keeping all the racial strengths. Yellow's main racial weakness, cap stability, isn't even relevant for pvp, only for carebearing. And there are always autocannons. It's the classic "buff me, nerf you" whine.

It's balanced as is. Every race has strengths and weaknesses. If someone is happy with their bot, that means either every race is the same, or that one particular race is op.

Annihilator wrote:

if lasers need a boost, then the weapons need a review, not the mech.

i do run around in a seth all the time, and since i got both accumulator and recharge extension on 8, i didn't really "suffer" any AP problems (not more then my EM corpmate).

i only get into AP issues once i have to start to use a repair module. thelodica = more hitpoints = needs more cycles to repair, the big disadvantage of hitpoints compared to resists.

btw, i wouldn't have ANY accumulator issues if i would replace one of my two recharger with a t4 injector...

Injector fit is the norm for pvp. Cap regen is a non-factor. This reminds me of Eve ages ago. It didn't take too long for people to realize that they would've either won or lost long before cap runs out. If neuted, regen won't be nearly high enough to help anyway. Stability is for ratting.

28

(126 replies, posted in General discussion)

The skills affecting market trade and taxes are basically the same as in Eve. Tax affect trade, but there's no npc corp taxation. The real barrier to manufacturing is research. Combat pilots in "commie-corps" spend hours upon hours on ratting in groups for mind numbing grind. They don't get to pvp much, but get to win when they do. Roaming in arkhes all the time and you get to stay in arkhes.

29

(8 replies, posted in General discussion)

RG_Sha wrote:
Sabre906 wrote:

How can you tell the difference between unintentional dc and logoffiski? tongue

I would guess the crash log thingy for one. The ask you to send the report when you crash. Then again i could be wrong.

I'm sure there are ways to trigger that crash report. Besides, some people's comp crash totally, not just the game client. For a typical session change crash, it takes a few seconds to restart and log back on. If the can is that close to expiring, you probably deserve to lose it. This just seems like a way to extend can lifetime until the yerr pirates go away. tongue

Edit: Please keep emotions at bay. - DEV Calvin

31

(8 replies, posted in General discussion)

How can you tell the difference between unintentional dc and logoffiski? tongue

Why does the date says 2212 for year? Km RP is nice and all, but it may be useful to see the real date at a glance once the game gets older and list of kills/losses grow. Requesting a auto translation on date. It's just a set number of years. Shouldn't be too hard. tongue

33

(17 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

It's not like there's a cap on EP. It'll all come in time. The only reason anyone absolutely have to reset is if they mess up attributes. I don't get how all the eve vets are so sore over this. Eve doesn't even have skill points reset, just attribute reset.

34

(126 replies, posted in General discussion)

tl;dr: Syndic helps ppl, so that he can play with them later, in the unlikely event that they grow a pair.

It's like feeding little kittens. Eventually they get feisty, and so he squeezes them a little, and they give a satisfying purr. But he still loves them. He knew they don't pose any threat. cool

One may think they shall one day grow into tigers and eat him. But since they're busy finding excuses for their weakness, it may take a while. lol

35

(12 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

Not supported. It would enable huge cross corp farming squads where people don't have to trust each other. It would be better if only those capable of being part of a team can enjoy rewards of teamwork.

+1

Btw, how much EP does Focused Forum Trolling cost?

37

(19 replies, posted in Balancing)

I got my tyrannos poped by observer there earlier. Lulz. lol

Didn't those already get gimped... after OP, before necro.

Make it alpha only.

Jack Jombardo wrote:
Arga wrote:

-1 for misuse of WOW analogy sad

Sorry wink

Tweaker wrote:

Jack ive been playing for a week, 11 pvp kills so far, my Corp has had a lot to do with it I'm at nav 9 working on nav 10.

http://www.perp-kill.net/?m=agent&name=Tweaker

For every successfull Rookie PvP player there are 100, who just die horible.

It's allways posible to point out one "but I have done it".
This just point out "it is NOT normal, but when you try hard enough with heroic suport it can be done".

And when I check your "PvP" results and see THIS: http://www.perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=454
Kain Mk2 + Kain Mk2 + Artemis + Prometheus +     Cameleon + Waspish against ONE super mighty and deadly Arkhe .... I must ask you, if you are realy proude of this Rookie-sloughter-fest??

Perfekt excample for: you can NOT do PvP from day 1 as you are just a target dummy!
And no Nav 10 would have helped this poor little guy to survive your gang bang!

And it's a shame, that you link this FAIL gang at all!
Go to ICS and kill the Traing Dummy. It's the same effect and needs as much "PvP skill" as 6v1 full pimped v hardly full fitt.

Hell, if I had such a message BY EXIDENT, I would try all to NOT make it public anywhere!



PS: rofl, just checked the other kills. Man you are my new personal hero big_smile
http://www.perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=214
11v1 ... well done PvP hero wink.

Actually, he laid final blow on that one, so it's rightfully his kill. You could've cited some other one where he just shot something with his little peashooter and got on the km. In any case, how can you tell from just the km how many people are in the victim's gang? For all we know the blob on the other side is bigger. Btw, bring more people on roams or expect to pop more often.

41

(126 replies, posted in General discussion)

*puts on tin foil hat*

42

(106 replies, posted in Balancing)

Interestingly, with the current market being what it is, a lot of the nic you spend when buying stuff goes the the corp mostly likely to pop what you brought in beta.

It's actually more relevant here than in Eve, with line of sight and objects blocking fire.

Considering the nice bot friendly color code and long lasting deposits, the only reason there aren't macros available already is because the game community is still small. Pre-empt it by evening the ground between bots and people may not actually be a bad idea.

45

(126 replies, posted in General discussion)

Winter Solstice wrote:

Exhaustion over the past week is forcing me to have trouble putting thoughts into words wink  but some 'intermediate step' between Alpha 1 and Beta on Alpha 2 would be interesting (beyond longer roads and less convienent teleports to reflect its nature.  Corp. infrastructure of *some* kind would be interesting as long as it isn't solely unique to alpha 2 in all aspects, but something that could work as an 'industrial/infrastructure training ground' for eventual beta-dwellers' that would still be a full and exciting system to participate in on it's own.  My brain drifts to a certain mmo where you could build non-instanced structures from raw materials on the landscape... the 'rent' for the locale functions as an in-game currency sink to keep the economy rolling and encourages continued participation in the land location for corp or individual owner, and building buildings in 'that' game introduces an entirely new character class -- people pay builders to hail and construct for them, etc.

You mean like lowsec? How'd that work? lulz.

There are lots of uninhabited beta. A certain corp keeps chasing corps that go to live there off island. In one case, it's more like one guy chasing off a rather established corp. roll

Current game mechanics favor group work to such an extreme that anything less than a fully communist corp doesn't stand a chance. Not many are willing to go that route and stick all the way through.

46

(51 replies, posted in General discussion)

Yes. Goons are to be trusted. cool

Nav 10 is for keeping up with the rest of the gang. It's not mandatory until the moment you step into a mech. Light bot will be faster anyway. Don't get that last lvl navi right off the bat unless sitting in a hanger for the first week is your idea of fun. The basic skills for light/assault are cheap.

It would be a nerf to neuts.

Rokas Onformaris wrote:

When I posted it I forgot to include a few parameters that would probably be really needed for balancing. Also I can hopefully address your concerns.

1. Agreed. I should've stated I meant Private/Corporation only. Public are not needed.

2. I guess I can see that, but why would CIR care if they screwed NeX? ( tongue all I'm gunna say). At the very least make it so with Ratts, and EVE didn't do it because EVE had serious issues in many area's patched up with duct tape and Hilmar's greed.

3. Honestly, I don't see a problem with it Given they fix the unfair speed problems (Gotta love a Heavy Mech running faster then a Light Bot roll). Thank you for address that issue with the Kain though. I barely mentioned it in the OP.

4. Let me start out saying I HATE STATIC. I was an industrialist in EVE and I absolutely hated the belts. I always enjoyed exploring out Hidden Belts and wished that Belts would be destroyed and planetary ring mining/comet harvesting would be implemented along with an expansion of Hidden Belts. By Exploring I should have said Prospecting. When a natural deposit in the real world is used up, it is used up. I can understand a semi-static system for liquid materials, but NOT for solid materials. I know this isn't Earth but still.

10. A lot to read, but I'm not asking for a nerf, just a counter because speed doesn't equal less damage in Perpetuum. Yes blue bots can close the distance but running into a mob of Gropho screams "bad idea" to me. While playing the game I've never seen anyone having problems killing Yellow in PvE (different activity from PvP). They simply hide behind a hill, then go and get coffee. In PvP I could and HAVE seen problems with the "out range lasers", they have to have LOS and god forbid that there be a bump in the terrain big_smile. When you first start out the game, yes there is a 10% chance, but extensions very quickly reduce that to basically 0. I am trying absolutely best that I can NOT TO draw comparisons to EVE.

11. Only thing to the Lamba shield I can say is that the bot is damn slow, but it was a random thought I had in my head. Probably not a serious point.

12. Artillery... yeah forgot a few things. Base artillery have crap for accuracy onto the beacons and fire within a very LARGE around it, say anywhere from 0-500m. With Extensions you could reduce the size to a more accurate attack to about 0-300m (each level knocking 20M off the deviation). Only specific bots can provide the beacons

I know that I forgot a point that I really wanted to add, but with how my mind works I've completely forgotten it! It'll come back to me later. But in all seriousness, thank you Sabre for the constructive criticism and your valuable input on these points.

1/2) Even if you don't mind. There are probably other underdogs and pirates that would like having a chance. tongue

3) They have shorter range, and ppl get webbed. Once you gimp their speed, there's risk of them going the way of Gallante.

4) Most miners and industrialists like static. There's always artifact hunting for those who don't. Some things are static, some are not = choice for everyone to play the way they want. Mining's going to be boring. Probably more so here, since a decent tile lasts longer than roids in Eve.

10) There are advantages and drawbacks to missiles, as it stands, mostly drawbacks. Missiles here has many more drawbacks compared to missiles in eve. It has guidance failure, it uses cap and becomes useless when neuted, there's no pure dmg type ammo, it's not the longest range weapon, etc.

The only advantage is not being blocked by terrain. But that's highly situational. It has to do with the fact that you'll always notice it when your shots are blocked, but the other guy's missiles aren't. How often does it actually happen? 10% of the times? When both sides hit, you'll never think twice about it. Nobody thinks there's anything unfair when 1 of the missiles flying at them gets guidance failure and flies skyward. And nobody notices that the missile thrower is doing less dps then they are. lol

There's really no need for a counter for missiles. Where's the counter for laser criticals? Or rail dps? The already worst pvp class hardly need a counter, or even another drawback on top of the already impressive list.

As for the Grophos, a group of well fit Kains can run down group of Grophos pretty well, assuming it's just a slug feast, and no ew support or other factors. Blue kills Green. Unlike in Eve, there aren't enough free lows to truly negate the large faction resist drawback in anything except yellow mechs. The resist gap is a lot larger here, and resist mods less effective. This is coupled with naturally high gank and speed of blue mechs.

11) No matter how it's implemented, it just feels like it's gonna end up being a blob incubator. Personally, it just doesn't sound very appealing.

12) Something like that will be hard to balance. I'd imagine the margin between useless and OP would be very small. Personally, I don't like the idea of entrenchment.

Rokas Onformaris wrote:

WARNING THIS IS VERY LONG

Hello,

I think it would be very beneficial to ALL organizations in the game if these few basic options were put into this amazing game. First I'll list them, then explain them below.

1. Contracts
2. Shared LOS Squad Radar
3. Squad "Map Ping"
4. Shifting Ore/Liquid deposits
5. BOOKMARKS. (or Waypoints 2.0)
6. Tradeable Scan Survey Items
7. Fix the Termis!
8. Various Forms of Standings alterations
9. Correct the Channel Ban system
10. Missile Balances (read before trolling, it is not a nerf request)
11. Lamba Shield Bot (again, read before trolling, its a random thought)
12. Things I'd like to see in the Artillery Mechanics and Bots

1.
Contracts would be a VERY useful option in the game. As of right now the only way to get items to a player is to physically be in the station with the person and open up a direct trade, or drop it in the corporation hangar for them. If the contract system were in the game, we could actually get items to other people, remotely and streamline many aspects of the game.

2.
I would hope that advanced robot AIs would be able to share their information with each other.. I find it a "little" strange that this isn't ingame already, but I will explain what I mean. It would be MUCH more helpful (both in PvE and PvP) if when the scouts detect hostiles on their radar, that it shows up for EVERYONE in the squad, not just their own radar. Rather then saying over Coms what they see, the squad members can simply look at their radar. We already have the radar showing were current squad members are, would this really be that difficult to implement into the game? big_smile

3.
Map Pings.. I can not begin to count how many times (already) I have been taking someone to a spot on the map and trying to describe the location based on its physical attributes or proximity to a large object (i.e. a building or megalithic boulder). Being able to Ping on the radar would help EVERYONE. For scouts to call attention to a specific area of the map, for "FCs" to show exactly where the hell they are leading people, and for Ratters to show their friends where they can either get rich, or die in a horrible explosion. yarr

4.
I want to start off saying that I love having to search for minerals, that they are dependent on the terrain and its physical features. But I am a little sad to see that the fields are all static. They don't move around when depleted, they simply regren. This quickly spoiled the "exploration" high I was experiencing sad. I can also see this becoming an issue on Beta Islands as PvP'ers would know exactly where the Epriton Fields are and where to find some Riv and Riv Mk2s. (disclaimer; I havn't experience Beta Islands personally so please do not troll over that reason). Please make the mineral fields dynamic, to shift around these massive Islands, to make miners enjoy the thrill of finding a titanic titan ore deposit in the middle of no where all to themselves (lulz, titan ore).

5.
Ok, this is more of an upgrade then a new feature. As of right now you can open up your map, go to Waypoints, create a Waypoint from where your bot is, and name it. Cool. Unfortunately you can not rename the Waypoint, and in the case of a dangerous Ratt Spawn.. You kinda have to get a little close bc of where your Bot is at. Can we please make it so you can right click on the RADAR (or Map...) and ADD BOOKMARK, and have the ability to rename bookmarks without deleting them?

6.
Trivial to everyone but a miner, and maybe I just haven't discovered it yet, but the only way I can give someone a Survey Scan (after its been turned into an item) is to place it into the Corporate Hangar. wtf srly? Why can we not Trade these to people? or put them into a Field container so our Mining buddies can understand just how MASSIVE the Epriton Field you've found really is? This just seems like a little "oops" mistake and a simple, but very helpful correction.

7.
I understand that the Termis's accumulator "issues" can be corrected with good extensions and 2-3 Accumulator Rechargers, but wtf! Can you PLEASE fix the accumulator problem? Either up the base recharge or add a bonus that reduced the AC cost X% per level of Adv. Robotics? Food for thought.

8.
I've seen these sort of things requested in the general channel by several people. Corporations able to set other people/corporations to some form of standings. People able to set an entire corporation to a specific standings. Ability to set ALL the members of your corporation to a standing.

9.
The Ultimate Ban Hammar! Currently when you ban someone from a channel it is forever and ever. You must petition a GM to correct it and even then it doesn't always work (saw it happen last night). Channel Admins and Operators should be able to see a list of the Banned Individuals and remove them from that list if they so choose. We shouldn't have to create an entire new channel just because someone got a little to happy with Teh Ban Hammar! (incorrect spelling is for lulz).

10.
When I first started playing my main (yes I'm posting under an alt) was a Pelistal character and now I am a Numiqol (sp?) character. I realize that missile have gotten a nerf in the past, but they need SOMETHING done to them. I believe every single Beta Island player will agree that PvP has become either very OP ECCM, speed Kains, and Gropho Swarms. In this particular paragraph I'll just talk about Missiles though. I personally don't know what could be done about this issue, but Missiles are very OP compared to other weapons. They require basically no Accumulator to fire, ignore virtually every aspect of the terrain, and with enough training (and its not much) will ALWAYS hit their target. The few suggestions I can think of at 5:30AM:

10A. -- Some form of a Laser Point defense module for the Head/Misc slots. This module would fire X number of times (based on extensions) and would have Y possibility of destroying the missile (based on extensions). These LPD Modules would be Squad Based, so any incoming missiles (to squad members) within Z range would trigger (when the LPD is active), and you could only increase the LPD's range with another Extension. Yes this adds at least 3 Extensions but it would be worth it in my opinion.

10B. -- An area of effect type module fitted into a Head/Misc slot that basically is a Signal Disruption Device causing X% of "miss" to missiles. Example being that when the 30 Gropho's fire into your squad, members with the SDD activate it and (extensions increase the % of scramble) cause the missiles to go off course and either explode too soon or soar off into a different direction. Basically the SDD would effect each income AND outgoing missiles, jamming their Guidance systems.

I do not believe it is fair to nerf missiles themselves any further even though they are OP. I believe that there does need to be some sort of defense for them since terrain does not effect them. The previous sentence is meant to say that the most basic defense for EM and lasers is to simply hide or use the terrain.

11.
This is honestly something I've just been batting around in my head while mining and listening to people talk. We all know how the shield mechanics work, and we've all seen Star Wars Eps 1 and the Gungans Lamba Shield Generators. We already have a fantastic shield system in the game that I personally believe is very fair. I do not know if it is even possible to create a Lamba Shield type Bot, I doubt the current shield mechanics would work that way. But the general idea (without thinking of ramifications or how to make it work) would be a bot, centered in the middle of a roaming gang of Deadly Robots generating a large shield. This bot would have no weapons, but would instead protrude this shield to protect the other bots. If the Artillery Bots and mechanics are implemented, this type of bot would be useful for protection AGAINST the barrage of death. Of course no one could shoot out of this shield, but once enemies entered the shield they could destroy the Lamba Bot and/or engaged the other bots. I would not know how this could effect the game, or how it could even work, but I think it would at least be interesting to think about.

12.
Artillery, we've all heard it, we've all thought about how cool it would be, but please let me state what I believe would really make them something to both be feared, and destroyable. I would love to see the option to Ping a location, or drop a beacon that only Artillery Mechs would be able to lock on, and fire from long distances away. This would be the ONLY way they could use their deadly barrages and be safe. Think of the Sniper Team + Juggernaught combo in Command and Conquer 3, that sort of mechanic. On top of that, I personally believe that in order for these Artillery Mechs should be able to fire is if they Deploy. Yes I said Deploy. To make a slow, but mobile mech physically stop and take time to deploy. Make some cool animation of the legs breaking into pieces to secure it into the ground like pylons, the massive artillery "unfolding" and extending into long cannons/Cruise Missile Launchers. When Artillery Mechs are not deployed, they can still lock targets and engage them, just doing a vastly reduced damaged due to their weapons not being deployed. Also, when the Artillery Mechs fire on the beacon, make it so they are not all landing on it, make them fire within an area and deal splash damage like a real artillery, and Friendly-Fire is of course active, because it wouldn't be a true artillery Barrage without some Friendly-Fire. tongue

These are the things that I would like to see ingame and thought about.. I know its abit chaotic in reading and probably jumps around but its almost 6 AM my time and I am tired. Please reply with what you believe would be helpful to the thread, i.e. constructive criticism.

1) Supported for private contracts. Not supported for public. It would open up a lot of scamming possibilities, and since there is a global market view in this game, plus no misc mods, rigged ships, etc that can't be easily integrated into market, there's no reason to fumble with a public contract system.

2) Not supported. There's no shared overview here for the same reason there's no shared overview in Eve - it would be too OP for a large corp to instantly know everything in the distance. It's applies here, even more so than in Eve, since squads are huge and you stay in squad even after relog. Just shout over com if you see anything. I'm being altruistic here, large beta-holding corps like the one I'm in would benefit hugely from shared overview, since there are sentry alts on every teleport. If everyone is able to see what those alts see, corps like NeX will be screwed.

3) Again, this would unfairly favor large beta holding corps like the one I'm in and screw guys like you. Sentries pinning you = t4 fitted fast gank Kain blob incoming.

4) Not supported. Mining =/= exploration. Exploration = artifact hunting. Mining = mining. Belts in Eve are also static. Beta mining is supposed to be done in groups, with protection, and when there are teleporter sentries camping island access. It's not supposed to be both effort free and risk free, choose one.

5) Supported

6) Supported

7) Supported for Argano, not supported for Termis. Noob miner like Argano shouldn't have such bad cap problems, but it's not exactly unfair to expect someone to have skills when they move up to Termis.

8) Supported

9) Supported

10) Not supported. Missiles are not OP, they already do the worst dps, 2nd worst range and delayed dmg. Missile boats are both slow and have filmsy tank. Yes, they can hit small targets for some dmg even up close, but guns can snipe them from afar for insta-pwnage.

This reminds me of the drake whine in Eve, crying to nerf something that already gimpy. At least drake has tank, missile mechs here don't. They're also in a bad position due to rock paper scissor mechanics here. Their predator, blue blaster mechs, are very fast and does the highest dmg. Their prey, yellow mechs, outrange them, do lol critical damage, use long webs, and has brick tank. With the 5% per lvl resist bonus, yellow mechs don't truly have natural resist weakness, which makes green missile mech the only one of the 3 that don't have class that's naturally weak against them.

Cap also isn't that relevant for pvp, since missiles here still cost some cap to run, unlike in Eve, and neuts are very OP in this game. When you're neuted, you're dry completely fast, and missiles are equally unusable as lasers. The only place where the low cap usage matters is in pve, but most people would think balacing should be according to pvp, not pve.

Missiles also has a natural guidance failure rate, starting at 10%. That's 10% less dps than on paper.

11) Not supported. Fort shield would heavily favor the already OP blue fast short range gank mechs, and screw laser and missile mechs.

12) Not supported. It would be either OP or useless, with a thin margin for balancing. Also with too many possible exploitations. Among some I could think of, is scout on teleporter calling in strikes from already deployed artillery on mechs jumping through. Entrenchment tactics favor defenders heavily and hardly makes for fun pvp.