Yes.

Finally you post here, now we can have just about every inactive pvper, and pve only player, posting how they dislike a change in the pvp mechanics they avoid like the plague.

and no anni, being in abu then docking with a larger fleet than us rather than fighting....isn't pvping.

perhaps if that was an all or nothing siege for abu, you guys would have pulled the trigger and at a minimum gotten some high value kills, and best case, won....we will never know the outcome had that happened though.

Bottom line: people who are inactive, don't play, or wish to avoid pvp at all costs dislike a system that encourages pvp and enjoy the current system, that encourages inactivity....despite it works to our advantage.

loud and clear on that guys.  thanks for your input.

Keep saps and sap loot for small scale fights, make the beta stations a big fight, with a take it all or nothing mechanics.

It will help the active players who have greater numbers organize enough to get more than 5 on at a time, and would see some vets hopefully return for nothing more than to log on and fight their hated enemy.

small scale is fine, however this game is nothing but small scale, lets get some fun big fights going.

There are more vets and more noobs out there than exist in our alliance, the issue as I see it is 50% cowardice 50% lack or organization.

Or lets keep the current system that promotes us taking the game world with little effort...

Oh and the reason I like this system is I watched how well it worked with a small pvp community in darkfall....brought the whole server out to fight, and that game was full loss pvp as well.

And I do understand that the inactive players who live only on the forums will be 100% against anything anyone with this corp tag suggest...even if its something that could change the balance of power.

You don't play, you publicly quit.  You are here because you are stuck in the past back when it was STC and the server vs PHM and Chaos, back when Tux's "bore them out the game they'll unsub" worked.

I really don't care about your opinion.  But ill ask you this.  The current system weve proven to hold the game world with little to no effort....my suggestion at a minimum would offer a change in that dominance.

Either way, you log into the forum of a game you no longer play just to say you dislike a suggestion from an active player.  Bravo.

Thanks for the bump buddy.  Best of luck in whatever game you play now.

STC wanted to drive their competition out by inactivity, boring them out the game by denying pvp whenever they could.  It disgusted you when it was happening before your feelings got hurt.  I remember the TUX quote where he said  "would rather the game die from inactivity than lose against us"....we offer pvp to anyone who wants it, and the kill boards since April show exactly that.

You could argue we are "killing" the game by activity, playing and providing pvp content whenever (granted no one wants to pvp against us because they are afraid)

Ill have someone dig up that collage of your forum posts where you state exactly what im referring to, since youll no doubt try to deny it.

Either way....you don't pvp you don't get beta or gamma, the hand outs to the pve players who just quit when they get pvp is over.

You want the current system to stay in game because you believe the old STC doctrine of boring people out the game will work like it did back when the game had 15 people in gen chat as a result...but it hasn't and wont work...might want to try actually playing to achieve your goals in game.

In all honesty I don't care what the forum vets who don't log in to play think of my suggestion.  You all live in the past trying to grasp on to past glory (or whatever your problem is) I want to focus on the future of the game.  The future of this game isn't ninja sapping and showing a fleet then running...its actually playing...back before your lot mad a name for themselves people fought huge battles in heavies...since the game became populated by STC and people like beast and jita its been nothing but trying to trick people who don't want pvp into pvp...and they get mad over it.

I wish back the old perp community tbh...they actually played the game...a siege system might bring back a few of these people.

Carry on with your hate towards people who do play actively.  Keep bumping my thread.  The people who want the current sap system are the same people who haven't owned a station of their own against competition....because the only game plan that worked for them was boring enemies out the game.

Problem with beta outposts is that they encourage avoidance of pvp.

Unlocking them just caters to the ninja sappers who wouldn't dare fight for a sap.

Let change the mechanics to encourage pvp fights for those who want stations, and keep the sap loot system, untie it from stability, and keep that for pawkaw to ninja hit.

Like cassius, burial, you hardly ever play the game, why does a system that is extremely advantageous to us (current system) feel so appealing to you?  Other than maybe you enjoy the fact that the game lacks any pvp....

I want to help the people who actually play, not you, celebro, cassius, or the rest of you guys....you don't play and only come here to stir up the pot and make accusations like its 2011 and STC is relevant and active.

This system helps the underdogs with greater numbers, the siege system....gives them a fighting chance, they have the numbers....but lack the continual organization that's causing us, the small alliance, to rule the game world through the actions of maybe 5-10 people.

You root for the game to die, I get it, really I do...

You miss the point, and as someone who doesn't play, I need to stop considering your opinions on the subject.

My suggestion is simple, a Siege system for taking stations, keep the sap system for small scale loot fights.  A system that promotes fighting for a station rather than the current system that promotes avoiding fights ninjaing SAPS in the hopes that no one responds.

That's it.  I want a system that would give reason for pvpers to log in as the siege would be publicly known at least 48hrs prior to occurring.

You don't want it, I get that, you like the current system for whatever reason....and think my suggestion would give advantage to the small group of pvpers you call a blob, and be at disadvantage to the larger player base aligned against us.  Your logic is interesting to say the least.

Either way, when I start seeing Celebro appearing at the saps ill take not that you may in fact like the no-fight sap system currently in place that is incredibly advantageous to how we play.

aside from a few occasions, this game has been nothing but small scale pvp for years.

id like saps turned into sieges for bigger battles and the sap loot system turned into loot drops and capture points for loot to encourage more small scale fights.

but asking for a major change like this, to encourage the only type of pvp found in this game currently is not something I would support.

if you seek the super fair number fights, get some buddies to do some alpha pvp or something...lord knows your allies need the training.

This isn't the first time bots have been rebalanced. 

People will adapt.

Almost no one uses fleets that are 100% optimized anyway.  Most bring what they have for the fight and make due.

Back when we rolled with a totally optimized fleet, something like this would have been a major issue...as the whole fleet would need to be reworked....but theres no point to rolling with one of those fleets when the rest of the server is so disorganized and more interested in running from a fight.

After a certain point, NIC becomes worthless.

ICE provided uses for NIC in these situations, and its a situation that only long term players face....

I propose some sort of NIC function, a massive NIC sink that ICE use to be, to replace the lack of ICE as a feasible system.

I mean....even if they added ICE for perp-credits....theres nothing to spend them on other than eternal boosters, which people who have the current "NIC has no more use for me" issue probably don't need.

If they added some more cash shop functions, decorative of course...I would like to see the steam marketplace used to sell player bought and sold ICE redeemable for perp-credits....

Other than that, I cant think of any proper NIC sink for long term wealthy players other than gambling mechanics for the very rare chance of t4+ gear.

I know you wont understand this, but the blob right now, and for the last several months, has been the rest of the server alliance against us.

The issue is, we can easily get a small number of people on within a few minuets for a sap, that advantage goes away once you get a 48hr heads up for an all or nothing SAP Seige.  As you guys will be able to get a hold of all the forum vets, and at least a few people with the 10 or whatever corps are allied together.

You say we blob, everyone does, because we are able to get 5-15 (maybe 20) people on and deployed within a few minuets to handle a few players and possibly a log on trap or whatever.  Truth is, the current sap system is incredibly advantageous to us, since we are a close gaming community and very organized.

The system I suggest gives the unorganized some time to prepare and plan, meaning you can have that big siege during your peak time, with the ability to give a heads up before dropping as well as a 48-ish hour window to secure your plan.

I know most the forum vets assume this is some masterful plot to secure dominance, truth is, we are already dominant because the current system you think ninja sapping is the only hope, but hasn't worked.

Anyone who played darkfall 1.0 towards the end knows exactly what a siege system like this does, it brings the server together to fight, it causes higher activity, and increased participation.  That is exactly what the current system lacks.

Since inactivity as a weapon no longer works against us, lets get a siege system in place that creates the opportunity for people to properly prepare and plan for a large fight...lets give rise to mercenary corps who exist to provide numbers to the highest bidders...lets get rid of the old "bore them out the game" tactics employed by ninja sappers.

By all means keep the sap loot and saps on a timer for small scale loot and scoot or fights...just make taking a sation a preplanned and public event...and make it all or nothing.

This current sap system...it works when you get 10k players pvping and holding one station becomes a full time and difficult job.  I want a system that works for the smaller community we have, and one that encourages people to get involved with pvp.

Of course you didn't bother to read the suggestion you are so against, you looked at the corp tag of the Op then posted accordingly, nothing new with that.

My suggestion would see more vets on the sideline come back, which is what the Rest of the Server Alliance needs right now.

It would be the case where you could look at whats getting seiged in the next 48 hours, see when it goes live, and people could log in just for that event...since the rest of the game might bore a lot of long term players.

Making the current pvp motives more than ninja sapping, setting traps to force people to pvp, and rolling the dice on activity might give the new players more motives if they know they can set a siege and have a lot of vets log on and help them.

Its a small change, imo, and will have big results.  My experience with this siege system was playing Darkfall on a server just as dead as this games server....and with sieges you get near complete server involvement....it made the game feel very alive and was motive to keep playing through siege downtime so you could at least prepare for the inevitable siege....on top of that it created a market for neutral mercenary clans...since you had a schedule you could hire people to fight for you.

Its easy to just disagree with something you didn't read just because you assume its a suggestion made to only benefit one party....based on corp tags...however im not the only player on my side who wishes we got our sht pushed in more often....and im not talking on paper wins where everyone on your side gets wiped but you kill syndic or whatever....real loss. ROTS has the numbers, just can never get them all on during the right times since SAP activity is a crap shoot.

Look past the politics for once....