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Kaldenines wrote:There is another approach. Increase the base locking speed and range of all bots. People have been complaining that sensor amps are a compulsory module for years.
As for an a buff being applied to bots for a few seconds after they are jammed, why not just make the jamming effect in itself a non-stacking debuff, seems like a simpler option.
Sensor Amps aren't required; Ive never run one on my most common bots and Ive been wildly successful. Let's stay on topic and talk about how the only fix needed is to ECM tunings.
Annihilator wrote:Rage Blackout wrote:ok Ill support this only because I want my EP back
I still say remove sparks or make them Gamma related only, somehow
what good are they for gamma?
What good are they when you don't play? You're not a dev, don't try to balance games you don't play.
DEV Gargaj wrote:So just to clear up the air, in case anyone is wondering: This idea has been shelved for the time being.
You were always my favorite.
SAP time displayed to corp members at 100, entire game at 0. Conveniece when you need it, PVP when you dont.
Dev blog says it is. And all those little seed steaminglings need time to grow into redwoods.
Burial wrote:Sounds like interesting fleet compositions will emerge if the nerf is done right.
Or if the population continues growing (which it is). Seriously, let the game shake out with the bigger population before getting heavy handed.
Voted you leave these in for X number of seconds as mech footprints.
Tyrone Biggumz wrote:Tund Bungler wrote:Line wrote:Atm best counter to ewar is to bring more ewar. Rinse, repeat.
Devs ignore this terrible post. More propaganda spewed without testing.
UMMMM .... you cant Quote a line then in the next line write ignore that quote ... thats like me holding up pics of naked chicks and saying HAY HAY YOU ALL !!! DONT LOOK AT THIS !! .. This right here in my hand .. ya ... this picture .. ya ya .. the naked one right here .. look here in my hand ... IGNORE IT .. ok .. thanks ... LOL LOL LOL
You can when it is objectively wrong.
RedKGB wrote:Was thinking about other ways to use this system. Money Laundering, a person could use this system to clean massive amount of money. A drug dealer, wanting to clean his money, buys nic related items in game from certain people, he then turns around and sells these items back to them thru system. He now has clean money in his account that he can do anything he wants with. I would like to add that this is illegal in just about every country in the world. So if it happens, and when cought, you Devs, being the ones that put the system in place, were even warned that it might happen, did it anyway, will lose everything, go to jail, and be some one elses glory hole.
Maybe thats their plan for making money with perp. Seems like itd be a whole lot easier just to add a proper cash shop tbh.
DEV Zoom wrote:I would really love to know the logic of how some people get from balancing changes to losing all your EP 
The game evolves, things change, balancing WILL happen all the time. This doesn't happen because we want to screw you over, this happens because we always strive for a better gameplay experience.
ps. and before we start throwing around silly numbers, we have 9 extensions that are in any way connected to these changes (detection/masking/ecm/suppressing). Even if you have ALL of those at level 10, that's not even half a million EP. But this really shouldn't be what we're discussing here. If you don't want to help with balancing that's fine, but please post your panic attacks somewhere else, thank you.
I DO have all of those at 10. You're forgetting all of the support skills that are pretty much only important to max ewar pilots. But of course you dont know this because all of these 'tickets' you get are from people who dont play (Anni) or people who lose one fight and run to fill out a ticket.
Its getting real old when you just casually dismiss all of these legitimate complaints without addressing a single one.
Line wrote:Atm best counter to ewar is to bring more ewar. Rinse, repeat.
Devs ignore this terrible post. More propaganda spewed without testing.
DEV Alf wrote:The reason why we thinking about changing some parameters of the ECM is we always see forum topics, ingame chats, reports about how strong it is, how OP it is.
Also we are not really like the possibility of making a player totally blind, and unable to shoot back. Ew is somekind of CC (CrowdControl), it should buy time, lower the threat, provide better control of damage you recieve but should not be able to negate it completely, from any source( per player - and we also want to keep the differences between bots). We also want it too keep worthy of using it.
The buff-debuff with the ecm strength on successful ew hit is aimed to achieve this, by lowering the chances of each following ew in given timeperiod. However with little awareness you can play around it, and still be able to ecm and suppress reliably but less often on the same target, and you should have to switch between targets to bring your EW to its maximum potential. It is some form of diminishing returns and it can be seen in many games (even for damage)
The idea of the extension is simple, with a given amount of EP spent you can slightly lower the chances of being hit by EW. We working on the modification of the extension so it should provide this bonuses to the ECCM only.
We recieved feedback manytimes that we shouldn't nerf stuff, instead make other stuff better. We intend to make ECCM better.
But eventually the problem is the reliability of the EW is too high, which is achieved by the tunings. We also working on this that the tuners should work differently. We like the idea of more drawback, flat increase, maybe flat percentage increase, or even cycletime increase, these are all a good option, but it doesn't mean that any of it will be made for sure.
We also thinking about the racial radartypes, that would bring another layer of complexity which I like, but we fear that some of the EW modules would become highly situational.
Also keep in mind that we don't talk about only fleet compositions, we have to take the funfactor of individual players into account.
(and in the future all of the tunings and similar modules will be revised)
I think we've shown with our math in this thread just how wrong all those 'forums posts and ingame chats' are. People dont like to die, and will whine about whatever kills them.
You guys are looking at this too short term and small picture. In a small 30 vs 30 fight ewar can play a pretty big role, sure. Those are the biggest fight this game can currently field.
However if your steam initiative is successful, and it sounds like its going to be since you are able to splurge for double ramen, the dynamics are going to change considerably. Having blanket coverage ewar in a 50 vs 50 or 100 vs 100 fight just isnt possible. The logistics involved with coordinating that is too good for even the best corps/players to achieve. In addition, as DPS reaches critical mass, ewars will begin getting easily one shot and eliminated instantly.
As the game grows ewar will less and less powerful naturally, without any dev intervention. Fix the tunings to a static amount if you must, but let the delicate balance you've struck otherwise stand on its own two legs for a bit. You arent designing the game for the tiny subset of folks you have been for the last year, you're designing it for the future.
I dont know about you Gunner but I am far from deflagged.
Syndic wrote:Will you be reimbursing EP?
With the extension there is no point to field EW Mechs anymore, a single ECCM turns them into a liability.
People have accounts completely dedicated to EW, you should reimburse those extensions since they will be useless and not fielded anymore.
I have 1M skillpoints dedicated to Ewar. The above changes make that guy completely useless. I promise I wont be buying perp credits to respec him and I imagine that feeling is common.
Same way loads of folks do.
And just so im clear, I dont mean Id be selling my accounts as a "Screw you" passive aggressive move.
With money being able to be converted to assets back and forth without restraint you've now considerably increased the opportunity cost of playing this game. Instead of a sunk cost in my subs/assets, now Im sitting on money that could be used to pay rent, feed me, or go to any other bills. I'd be crazy to not want to get maximum value for my assets, and that maximum value will be the day you make this change.
Burial wrote:Tund Bungler wrote:Burial wrote:Not fast enough.
15kph isnt enough to catch up? There is no pleasing you people!
That's little over 4 meters per second. As I said it's not fast enough.
What you meant to say is you aren't good enough to make it work. Strad and I have probably more experience running fast tackle than the rest of the server combined and we are both telling you its easily done.
I can't overstate how serious of an issue this is.
Take a look at other games that have gone down this route and the reputations they have achieved.
You have every corner of the game coming together in a single voice telling you this is a BAD idea. Anytime the entire game can come together in a troll-free zone its worthy of serious attention and consideration.
If you go through with this idea as initially proposed I have one additional request: allow us to sell our accounts as well. I want to dump all 10 of mine before you kill the game and they become valueless.
People do NOT want games where you can trade in and out of real life money. If you don't pull that section out of your dev blog you are going to significantly hurt your reputation in the steam community and it will significantly hurt your sales should the game make it to 'actual release'. Gamers have voted with their wallet time and time again and always voted against RMT.
Syndic wrote:Why are none of these "uncatchable" detectors running around my island 24/7 then? 
Masked velocity cameleon mk2 can't demob something. I bet it probably has a shield too. And a T2P injector just in case. 
If you didn't exist someone would have to invent you for the sake of good comedy.
Dont forget the Active hacking module in case you accidentally run across a sap while chasing that detector!
Burial wrote:Not fast enough.
15kph isnt enough to catch up? There is no pleasing you people!
Ville wrote:Here is what I want to know, can we get some posted "theoretical percentages" for what you wish to achieve with balancing ECCM versus ECM and at different extension levels.
For example A player with 1 ECM in his head slot has 75% chance of being ecmed by a vagabond with L10 Jamming and complex jamming electronics.
Player B with 1 ECM in his he'd slot has a 30% chance of bring ecmed by a vagabond with L5 Jamming and complex jamming electronics.
Player c with 2 ECMs in his head slot has a 30% chance of being ecmed by a vagabond with L10 Jamming and complex jamming electronics.
Player D with 2 ECM in his head slot kills the vagabond before player D is ECMed.
Similar but with different variations cameleon and vagabond different extension levels plus add one tuner. Things like that.
This. Let's pick our destination before deciding what route to take.
Its not just 'specific' PVP situations. I know you guys dont PVP a lot in the game, but its literally 99%+ PVP situations.
Its also mandatory for PVE; both for combats and followbots. Don't add more extensions to the game with all these new players joining in; they dont have the hundreds of thousands of banked EP we do to instantly fill the new skill up and it will only make the gap between vet and noob bigger.
A sensor strength extension is no different than a navigation extension; all of the same arguments for removing Nav apply to not adding in this.
Annihilator wrote:forgot, talking about PvE situation...
do you actually run gauss fits in PvP? i thought most the times you run EM guns anyway for the range due to AoE damage. At least that was something many complained about when AoE was implemented.
Ask Burial how Gauss guns feel hitting his Kain.
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