Except you forgot the most important aspect of this scenario - Tyrannos, which has 4 missle slots and can fit 2 neuts, which will be effective regardless of shields being up.  Whereas the Artemis and the Kain, get 4 turret slots and a missle slot and 4 turret and 2 missle slots, respectively.  In order for the Artemis or the Kain to fit neuts, they have to actually drop at least one of their primary weapon systems, reducing it's dps potential.  Whereas the tyrannos can fully fit all it's primary weapon systems AND 2 neuts.  In addition, the AP usage for missle launchers are extremely low in comparison to lasers and EM guns, giving far greater neut potential to the tyrannos, while still allowing for full dps, and shielded, it can sit there with low accum and still turn it's shields on, unlike a repper which uses significantly more AP to activate.  Take a wild guess as to the results here...

:::debates if to troll, decides logic and reason will prevail instead:::

I must have missed something, because I do not recall any such agreement.  All I recall was one conversation where I, and later Saramara, stated that we have no intention of taking control of any outposts other than on Hokk.  If we are roaming and find a fight, we'll fight if we can, if we see an active sap, well hell, if we feel like it we'll screw with it, or hang out to ninja a can, or screw around with a solo guy like we did on Koykilli the other night.  But we have no intention of taking any outpost for ourselves outside Hokk Island.

That being said, the new intrusion mechanics have both good and bad.  It still has the capablity to be an alarm clock megablod the way it is currently handled.  Most of the arguements have already been stated, so instead of repeating them, I will merely state some possible corrections, either individually or as a total group. Remember, the idea here was to :
-Make it so a corp had to be active at that location to take and keep the outpost
-To reduce gang/corp size (da blob) from being the major deciding factor
-Create some benefit to actually owning an oupost ( upgrades and auras)
-To leave opportunity for a determined and dedicated group to have an impact on the above.

--Get rid of the on island timers:  Really, you can jump on an island and see instantly if any sap is active on that island?  Too damn easy button mode.  Make it so that a squad or individual actually has to be near the sap to tell if it is active.
--Get rid of the probes: The idea is to make it so a corp has to be active on that island and outpost to take it or keep it.  That should mean that they have to actually OBSERVE when the sap is active.  Under either situation, if your group is active at that location, they will see it, if not active there, they will not. Really, once or twice a day, go to outpost and drop a half mil probe and bingo, instant horn of gondor, absolute knowledge when and where and who, and the alarm clocks get set...
--Give a benefit to the owning corp for timers:  The owning corp should be able to know beforehand when the sap becomes active after achieving control of over a certain level.  Security of 20, or 25, no more than 50, gives the "owner" a timer that shows them when it is next active.
-Give the defender the opportunity to close the sap, or reduce the active time from 1 hour to 30 mins, or increase the time for an attacker to actually take the sap, instead of a defender having to stand there for an hour, whereas an attacker or someone screwing with security level can do it in 2.5 minutes with a 3 man light ewar gang evasive module and shield fit. It's not balanced currently.  Really, 1 hr vs 2.5 minutes....

It's a change, and some of it is pretty good, some of it not.  I like that a small determined group of ppl can have an impact.  And frankly, all the qq about omg we have to do a sap every 2 hours, well was said earlier by someone else, maybe you have too many outposts.  In that respect, I think the changes are excellent, promote smaller footprints, and limit control for a corp of outposts regardless of it's size.  Newer entities then would have opportunity to actually be able to get out on beta, or at least have an inpact on there.

Right now it is too easy, but that does not mean the framework is necessarily bad for the game, it just needs some balancing out so that no one gets an "easy button".  Good grades for effort devs, but not for the implementation.  Effort/risk vs reward, after all...

Could not even run 2 medium repairers!?!?!?!?!?! No bot or mech can do this currently, without either energy injectors or remote energy transfer, nor should they be able to.

Let's look at this again.  Total weapon usage of 6x T4 medium launchers running continuously, as the Gropho currently is,  is 1.43 AP per sec, with an AP recharge of 4.5 AP per sec.

That is a net gain of approx. 3 AP per sec. (unique to heavy mechs, the only one with a base recharge net gain during continuous weapon fire.)

6x T4 lasers consume 51.5 AP per sec
6x T4 EM Guns consume 35.3 AP per sec.
6x T4 Autocannons consume 1.43 AP per sec.

The higher accumulator size on the other mechs is due to their native weapon systems ( firearms are a terran introduction, not used by the natives, per the backstory).  So the Gropho has a longer recharge time, but starts off with an AP gain vs weapon fire, Seth and Mesmer have a higher AP recharge, but burn AP 25.5x to 35.5 times faster than the Gropho's missle launches.

No one has stated wht the accum or recharge on the test server was, so there is no data to run calculations.  Also, it might just work out to have the same recharge it currently has. 

Also, considering the native bonus of the Gropho, shield absorption, why would one even attempt an active armor setup with 1 repper, never mind 2?  Logically, a shield tank, with rechargers or energy injector would be the normal configuration.  Jacking up the recharge rate would serve no purpose other than making that tank even stronger, with a weapon AP burn of only 1.43 AP per sec.

And gimp your speed in the process, effectively demobbing yourself.

Because the Gropho:

-has an AP net gain with weapon fire, unlike the Mesmer, which means it can take alot more neuting, and still fire and run shields, before going dry.

-Because medium neuts with max skills on an ictus will only exceed weapon range of Gropho by less than 100 m, and would have to get in weapon range of support mechs and bots to utilize t, unlike the Mesmer, which it will exceed weapon range by 300-400m.

And, to borrow from stEVE:

Because of Gropho!

Well, you stated the differences right there.

Mesmer that can repair while using weapons have a counter, the Ictus, or any neutralization.  Also, I doubt that can be sustained without remote energy tranfer for very long, so the mech doing the transfer is also vulnerable, in combat range and capable of being neuted as well.

Gropho that can permarun it's defense, at high range, which makes it easy for it to fall back out of damage range, or use landscape to hide from damage, but still able to permarun it's weapons.  Not much counter there, is there, considering the range of neuts, and that they re LOS as well. Ewar possibly, ECM or Suppressors, but all that AP still keeping those shields going.

Seth, buffer tank, really only works in extended engaements if there is remote rep, so same arguement as the Mesmer, and will probably still need remote energy transfer as well.

No.  Again, in a situation of asymmetric warfare, the larger group will still dominate, and in fact, the slower heavy mechs will be even more vulnerable to the L-Demob, with a effective range of 1111 m, and with heavies only being able to detect the L-Demob ewar at 1000 m, without interference.

For moe details see:  http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … c-warfare/

Same situation with the Seth as well, and the Mesmer, skills that increase reactor CPU, or reduce fitting costs for those attributes, need to be high to fit any heavy mech.

So the statement, also without supporting data, does not alter the analysis.

Edit:  Also, the discussion is not based on how you want to fit a heavy, that will be effected by your skill levels, but about the base attributes, speed, damge, range, and weapon AP consumption vs. recharge, and their impact on the heavy mech performanace.

Other than offering subjective opinion, nothing you have stated is based on objective data, therefore it is you who's arguements "...get worse with each try... really"

And, if the data were not valid:

Why did so many ppl respec to Pelistal?
Why do you not see Seths, or for that matter, many Mesmers, in incursion PVP?

The real issue here is because people did respec, due to the LOS, AP, and speed issues, and then heavily invest in retooling to Grophos for incursions, and are more interested in protecting that, than an actually balance that allows for an active role in PVP, and Incursions, for the other heavies.  "OMG, if they buff Mesmes and Seths, or nerf Gropho's. wewill no longer have that advantage!!!"

For the most part, that is what I see here as far as the negative responses.  You want you arguements to be taken seriously, present DATA that supports your arguements.  Otherwise, it's just opinion.

ATM, Mesmer and Seth are good for farming, though you have to energy transfer the Seth to sustain it, but have little on no role for PVP, due to the inbalance between them and the Gropho.

Again, nobody said anything about making them all the same, nor about making the Seth "uber".  What is being indicated by the data is that the Gropho has significant advantages over both the Mesmer and the Seth.

The AP issue should be glaring to everyone, and no one can deny the Gropho's advantage there.  Any addition of modules increase the AP usage on the Gropho, but that also is the case with the Seth and Mesmer, and they are already starting with a negative net regen.

The other 3 issues that stand out, is that as the longest range heavy mech, it probably should be the slowest.  Looking at all the other Pelistal bots and mechs, you find that all of them are slower than the comparable Thelodica and Nuimqol bots/mechs. 

Either that, or it should keep its speed and have it's range reduced further.  This would be consistant with the other bots and mechs (excepting the waspish, which I wll leave for another to show how insanely OP t can be). 

Thirdly, the fact that the Seth has a shield bonus, which no other Thelodica bot has, and that all other Thelodica bots/mechs have either an AP regen bonus or a resist bonus, plus lacking the AP regen to handle a shield tank, should be a clear indication of an issue.

EDIT:  Again, on the damage issue, many here convienently forget that missiles go over landscape features that turrets do not.  Therefore, as far as actual applied DPS, the Gropho probably has a higher rate of actual delivered DPS,, with fewer shots hitting landscape features. Whereas the Seth does have a significanly higher DPS, as noted in the original post, over a 800 m range, the likelyhood of getting a clear shot can be significantly reduced, thus "balancing" it's DPS potential.