Please don't start down this path....

EA people got about a month of EP extra. So you suggest that we should, for the following month, get double EP to balance things out.

What about the people joining in a month from now? They're 2 months behind. Should they get 3 times the EP for the first month? Double the EP for 2 months?

What about people joining a year from now? They're a year and a month behind. Should they get 14 times the EP for the first month? Double the EP for a month and a year?

What about people joining 3 years from now? They're 3 years and a month behind. Should they get 38 times the EP for the first month? Double the EP for a month and 3 years?

Where does it end? Where do you draw the line?

You didn't know about EA, so it isn't fair that you didn't get the advantages that come with it. A decent argument. But someone starting a month from now may also not have known about the game. Someone starting 3 years from now and fresh into the MMO scene may also have not known about the game.

And no, I did not have early access. The line has been drawn on early access for the EP bonus. Don't start moving that line or it will never stop moving and completely ruin the current EP system.

52

(25 replies, posted in General discussion)

Auto-guns are easily eplained.

Syn-tec hacked some Nian robots from earth and used them to develop auto-cannons as these were weapons they were comfortable with, opposed to the yet unresearched missile, laser and EM weapons. The Nian robots that were still antonymous of course noticed these weapons and as any scientific society ( which the Nians clearly are due to their advanced robotics, weapons and more. ) they would research these weapons. Research that would be stored in their kernels.

Field containers are also easily explained. Notice how when you use a teleporter or a terminal your robot is changed into some for of lightning/energy? I'd say this is clear evidence that Nians have mastered matter to energy conversion and back. So maybe a field container is not an actual earth container but instead a battery. Matter is converted into energy, then stored in the battery and later converted back. As to why it's so much larger then the Sequer, maybe the Sequer uses only a portion of it's frame for storage. Engines, Accumulator, Armor, CPU. Reactors, Modules and who knows what else all require space. So in the end there may not be that much space at all left for a matter battery to hold the storage. Add to that that in a field container all systems are directed to storing matter while in a Sequer systems also need to monitor Armor, Accumulator, Propulsion and much more.

As for robots not bumping into each other can be explained with the same theory. Nian robots can convert matter to energy and back. So maybe when 2 robots collide they can quickly convert parts of themselves into energy and then just as quickly convert it back to maintain structural integrity while the other bot this time converts it's matter into energy. Of course then why can't robots pass through the ground. Well the lore says this:

"Due to the planet’s dense core and the relatively fast rotation, the electrostatically charged oceans dividing islands are impenetrable barriers to every object driven by electricity. On land – contrarily – life flourishes."

So water in Perp is electrostatically charged. Nia is supposedly very similar to Earth, so it's safe to assume that the ground would also contain water. It would have to be for the plant life. This water would probably be a lot less electrostatically charged, but still enough to screw up any robot's matter to energy conversions that wanted to actually pass through the ground.

There you go, explanations about as good as you can get I think. Should be on par with your average sci-fi novel.

53

(49 replies, posted in Balancing)

Hadouken wrote:

If your on flat ground, and sure there's no hills, but your shot still hits the ground or goes the wrong way, what does your combat log say?

Does it say that your shot missed?
Or does it say that your shot was blocked by an obstacle?

You do have a chance to miss, and when you do, the shot will miss, this is often shown as the shot hitting the ground.  Double check your combat log next time and see what it says.

Other then that, I don't know what to tell you, LOS works just fine for me. Is your connection laggy maybe?  I find it odd that it would work fine for some and be buggy for others.

Assuming he's using small lasers then he can't miss normally. Lasers have a hit dispersion of 3. The smallest surface size is 3. Unless the NPC bot is equipped with an evasion module, which I doubt many of them are, you can't miss with small lasers.

On top of that a miss does not look like hitting the ground. A miss looks like shooting the air just next to your opponent.

If you want to experience when the LoS systems gets annoying try fighting on a slope where both you and your opponent are at the same height. So a slope that, when the camera is right behind your robot, goes from the top right corner to the bottom left corner of your screen ( or the other way around ). The steeper the slope is the more often your robot seems to not even be aiming at the enemy robot but instead his lasers leave the barrel at an angle of around 30+ degrees ( rotation ) and fire at the top of the slope.

I'd say a respec once a year would be fine as long as it stays in the confines of character creation. Meaning you can't just assign your attributes as you wish but instead you can choice your school, speciality, corp and spark again ( giving only attribute bonuses, extensions stay as they were. )

Everyone gets given a single respec now. When you use it it will go into CD for a year or maybe half a year. If you don't use it it will stay a single respec, the cooldown will only start when you use it. So if you respec right away you'll get your second respec in a year. If you wait half a year then you get your second one in a year and a half. No matter what you do you're stuck with your choice for a full year.

TysonRH wrote:

Yea I do that quite frequently... and hit a 2.5inch tall pile of dirt in front of the other mech that looks like it would cover no more than his foot from the camera angle I play at when I'm in combat (sorry I don't have a magnifying glass handy when I play).

I'm not the one asking for the fix... I'm just trying to clarify his point because I wouldn't mind either.  It doesn't take me more than 3-4seconds to adjust..blahblah.. v v weak troll attempt.

This is basically why I suggested it.

There's a handful of situations where there currently just aren't enough visual clues to whether or not you'll hit. If you're in one of these you can of course just try and see. So you miss and you move around a bit, but often the terrain in which these situations happen isn't confined to a few square meters. It's a larger area, so once again you're in the situation where there aren't enough clues as to whether or not you'll hit.

It's not about missing your shots. It's about it being clear why your shots missed. Sometimes when you see 95% of a robot it's still not enough and you miss. Yet sometimes when you see less then 75% of it you still hit.

It's like using module when you have 100 Accumulator and getting the error that you don't have enough yet when next time it cycles and you have just 50 Accumulator left it goes off just fine. It's frustrating not because the module doesn't go off, but because you're just not sure when it will and when it won't go off.

Chief Ubenor wrote:

is there something I dont' understand?

What does keep me now from creating alts and running them tutorials as many alts as I'll have available? I'll just won't worry about deleting all these alts to not be charged EP. I mean these alts will just sit there dormant, its not like they gonna suck my EP out of main character, are they/ What am I missing here? How charging EP for deletion of the character on account will prevent me from creating alts and running tutorials?

You only have 3 slots. Your way you can get 2 alts = 2 light bots extra per account.

Their way they delete the alts and they get 2 light bots extra per day per account.

But if deletion costs EP then doing that suddenly isn't so smart anymore.

Chief Ubenor wrote:
Gobla wrote:

Things are just starting....

I like Gobla's response. Yeah I definitely understand all that. I actually like the game for it's complexity, I get bored in MMOs quick if I have to run around and press 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. I think the complexity of PO is what appeals to me, but with complexity comes time investment. basically people who have most time on their hands will eventually be dominating the market since they can mine more ore, make more NIC from assignments, etc. I already see some people run assignments from the Outposts in baren lands. Those must be the early access guys smile.

I think ore and NIC is the most important in game right now even though everyone is waiting on EPs to regenerate. They will have a good reserve for later production.

So the question rises then - since not many people have good refinery skills yet and maybe don't have access to tier II - III refinery stations - does it make sense to just stack on ore and not refine it until your refinery is like close to max? Same with prototype and factory production. My indi has some good indi skills, but his mass production skills still suck and I feel that I kind of wasted that ore.

Also what skill should I increase to increase the amount of produced end component in factory. At this point it says that I can onnly create up to 2 max. I understand its one of the mass production skills, but which one?

As a mission runner I would just run the missions that you can handle, that aren't too busy and make good NIC. So that when Assault Bots and Mechs hit the market at large you'll be able to buy one right away and start enjoying all the advantages that such machines give.

As an industrialist it's a bit more complicated. If you're in it for the money I'd grab a calculator and spend one of your sessions finding out which markets are profitable right now with your skills. Probably one of the ammunition markets or maybe the light bot market as a casual indy. If you're in it for the crafting I'd focus on expanding your knowledge base, preparing your library of CTs and possibly stacking up materials.

The way I see it most of the casual player base and probably some of the hardcore is currently in Perpetuum University. You've chosen your major subject ( combat, trade, industry etc. ) and possibly a minor and now you're learning. Maybe you're a Perp genius and in a week you'll know exactly what to do and what not to do. Maybe you're not sure and you switch to a new major and maybe take up a new minor. Maybe you're just like most players and you've got a decent idea of where you want to go but not much of a clue on how to get there. So you stick around, you explore, you learn, you try things out and when you feel you're ready you go for it.

Sometimes you'll screw up, just make sure you learn from it. This weekend I lost my prometheus, had to buy a new one with all the mods. Cost me half a mill. Half my money. Taught that maybe lasers being long range weapons it isn't so smart to use them from 50m while 5 NPCs are pounding you. Maybe you should stick at 150m where they can't hit you. So all in all, good money and time spent. I consider myself in the second year of Perp Uni now.

TysonRH wrote:

I agree with the general idea you're giving off here... to clarify what *I hope* your point is-- we need an indicator that says "hey we can see the enemy clearly" without having to 100% zoom in on our bot and look at the enemy and judge if he's clearly visible and not standing behind or near a 1foot anthill that's going to make me  miss 50% of the time with my lasers.

This indicator should not be a green 'you'll hit with both' or a cyan 'you'll only hit with missiles' but rather a green 'you have the opportunity to hit with both' and cyan 'opportunity to hit with missiles'. 

To support the idea you throw in a very small amount of RP and say that:
"Given I'm a pilot of an advanced tech robot on another planet, my character should be competent enough to realize when he/she can or cannot see the enemy... which then leads to the idea of 'I really shouldn't shoot right now because I can't see the enemy' at times where the enemy ducks behind cover or has a majority of themselves covered by a hill."

That's exactly what I mean.

A visual indicator saying: If you shoot right now you're going to miss because you don't have LoS. Or: If you shoot right now you may hit because you do have LoS.

If you don't manage your movement and attacks around it you'll fire wasted shots. It won't stop your auto-attack. It will merely change colour and nothing more. If you decide to ignore it then things will be as they are now.

But if you're smart you'll press space bar when they turn cyan to temporarily cancel your attack and then push it again when the marker goes green again.

As to the lag comments, what does it change really? If I zoom in 100% to nearly 1st person view and use that to manage my attacks I'll still have the exact same problems when lag hits of it looking like I can hit but still missing because we both moved by the time the package hits the server.

Hell, the exact same thing can happen when looking at the distances on your landmarks. If you have lag then they won't be right. Does that mean we should remove the distances and replace them with: "Very Near" "Near" "Kinda Near" "Kinda Far" "Far" and "Very Far"?

If you have lag then information on your screen will be incorrect, regardless of this change. You'll still lose your locks when working near max lock range, you'll still miss even though everything looked like it would hit, you'll still die even though it looked like you had just enough armor left etc.

All this change would do is make it clear when exactly you're on one of those "Turrets don't work here" slopes without wasting tons of ammo while moving around to find that single spot that does work.

All it does is add a visual indicator for the LoS mechanic. Just like we have a visual indicator for the range mechanic ( the distance on your landmark screen ), a visual indicator for having something locked and a visual indicator for being locked. I don't think they make the game easy or even easier. They just make the game sensible and a lot less frustrating.

Things are just starting.

There's nothing on the market yet, corps are still building up, most everyone is still in light bots.

It's a sandbox. We players create the content. We've only been here for a few days so there's not much to do yet.

I'd say right now it's all about the EPs, but they come slowly and nobody has a lot of them so things are a bit quiet right now.

First of all the resource market needs to get settled in. For this to happen miners are first going to have to reach the miner mechs and heavy mechs. Once this happens manufacturers can start focussing on specific products and start cranking out big numbers. When this happens the PvE people can start buying bigger bots on a larger scale and start raking in the NICs. Which in turn allows the miners and industrialists to start forming the economy because there's finally a demand for masses of ammo, bots and modules. This in turn will allow the PvPers to really get started as competition will bring the prices to a natural level on the market and the PvE content will supply sufficient NICs for them.

So right now things are slow while people build up sufficient EP to settle into their chosen professions with enough support skills to allow them to function efficiently.

As a hardcore player you now have the opportunity to be the first player to do so many things and get the related benefits from that.

As a casual player you have the opportunity to start stocking up NIC and EP so that once the market settles you can get right down to your chosen business without needing any additional time to prepare.

See it as a colonisation. First the hardcore scouts move in and explore and map the lands. All the while the casual settlers wait at base camp and prepare themselves to populate the lands. Once the hardcore scouts have started things up the casual settlers move in and will mostly take over all but the most dangerous areas where the hardcore scouts will still reign supreme.

How exactly would LoS calculations be based on your internal clock?

I know the rnd() function is based on your internal clock but I thought that the LoS function appeared to act randomly. I wasn't aware it actually was random.

Collision date and height should be available client-side. By pressing 'L' you show collision areas so obviously that date is present client-side and it would be impossible to draw the terrain without knowing the height.

The exact format could be different and in this case it would need to be converted which could take some work but all in all I don't see how it would be a large addition.

In addition to that I'd rather have an indicator that was sometimes out of sync then no indicator at all. Even with an out of sync indicator you eventually develop a better feel for the system and when it does hit and when it doesn't. Without an indicator this would be much harder.

61

(1 replies, posted in General discussion)

Your industrial skills will advance at a slower rate then your combat skills. They'll still be able to advance to max level but it will take more EP, and thus time, to get there.

Basically you have 3 options:
- Train a single character in both, will take a long time but in the end you have one character that can do it all.
- Train 2 characters on the same account, one with combat and one with industry. Will still take quite a long time but shorter then the first. You'll have to relog if you want to do something else though.
- Get a second account and train an industry character there. Will take half the time of the other options but will cost you monthly. You can also dual box so you don't even have to relog ( just open 2 clients on the same PC and alt-tab between them. )

I think that currently much of the annoyance with LoS is in the fact that it appears you hit the ground at random.

Sometimes your target is in clear sight but your bot apparently still decides to shoot the hill 20 meters to the left.
Sometimes your target is just behind a hill but your bot can apparently suddenly shoot through small parts of ground and still hit the target.

In short the whole system appears kind of random as long as there's not an entire building between you and your target.

I suggest that the green Primary Target markers that appear around your target change color based on LoS to make it clear when your target can be fired at and when you'll miss. This will hopefully enable players to get a better feel of the system and judge when their target will be hit and when it will be blocked.

In short when your target is in both Turret and Missile LoS the Primary Target marker should stay green as it is now: [X]

When your target is no longer in Turret LoS but still in Missile LoS the Primary Target marker should turn cyan: [X]

When your target is neither in Turret LoS or Missile LoS then the Primary Target marker should turn blue: [X]

I don't think there's any situations where Turrets do have LoS but Missiles don't so there doesn't have to be a color for that. If I'm mistaken a new color, such as purple, could easily be chosen to represent this.

I believe this will remove much of the frustration that currently exists around the LoS system and it's seemingly random nature. The calculations for the marker's color could be done client-side ( using the same calculation of course ) and only be done server-side when the actual shot is fired, this to not put additional stress on the server to calculate the target markers for a thousand players every frame.

63

(64 replies, posted in General discussion)

Overall ugliness Cornelius T probably has my vote.

But I find Demois to definitely be the most disturbing due to the sheer "Mi Scusi" factor.

Cornelius T I'd give an odd look, from Demois I'd run with both hands covering my ***.

64

(46 replies, posted in General discussion)

What does he say at 1:32? "We're rolling and strolling through *** egypt here."?

lol @ that.
"

65

(4 replies, posted in General discussion)

I'd say be patient. More player feedback isn't always a good thing.

Players get excited. We think of stuff that sounds awesome at first but when thought through really won't work at all. We exaggerate stuff we deem negative, most of the time unintentionally. We often don't mention much of the stuff we deem positive, also most of the time unintentionally. We ask for fast patches and early releases and then we complain the devs didn't take enough time.

The devs have to filter through all this information, plus whatever logs they themselves have of server activity and their own experiences, which takes time. On top of that, judging by the fairly bug-free state perp was released in, the devs take their bug fixing seriously. Which takes even more time.

In the end I'd prefer a well-thought out patch that's bug free once 2011 hits rather then a quick buggy fix based on the limited experiences and flawed observations of all of us players ( myself included ) by the end of this week.

Not to say that it's a bad thing that we use these forums to suggest, discuss and even whine about all sorts of things. As long as it's done with a certain degree of respect for each other it's great fun for us players and it may just inspire a dev to come up with something new. But the forums are where the talk happens. That shabby office with the 10 year old couch is where the designing happens.

I'd personally say they should release a weekly dev blog, no matter how short, to keep us informed of what they're thinking about and working on. Release the blog weekly so all us rabid players stay happy and then focus on pushing out quality patches only when they're ready.

66

(17 replies, posted in General discussion)

Have you tried giving yourself an actual goal?

Personally I find the grind is actually enjoyable as long as I keep a goal in mind. This isn't a game where you get handed quests on a platter and if you just do as the nice devs tell you then you'll eventually have all the best stuff on the server, just like everyone else.

I set myself a goal and then I work for it. I spend my EP to achieve that goal. I save my NIC for that goal. I investigate the fittings if it's a robot. I investigate the materials if it's production. I investigate the market if it's trade. I spend my time and energy on it so that at the end I have something that I earned. Something I'll remember as the time I finally got my Assault Bot, or when I finally built my first Mech, or when I finally earned my first billion.

Yes the basic gameplay is fairly repetitive and probably a bit boring. But for me a sandbox isn't about that. It's about achievement and determining your own path.

Sure, this game needs work. It's an indie game made by 10 people that released less then a week ago. But the basis for something great is definitely here. If you need the devs to give you reasons to play then maybe you're doing it the wrong way?

Find your own reasons in the game. If you can't find any then the conclusion should be simple, the game's not for you. At least not yet.

Right because all the missile skills are useful to all 3 factions?

Or because decreasing the Hit Dispersion on small lasers that already at 3 ( the smallest target size ) is useful?

Or because Accumulator Neutralisers are equally useful against all weapon systems?

Or because ECM is equally useful against all factions? ( Hint: Pelistal lock time decrease bonus )

The factions aren't equal, that's why they're here. Not all skills have the same impact on these factions. Mechanics has a higher benefit for Thelodica Clan bots because of their naturally high armor and their higher resists. Navigation has a higher benefit for Nuimqol Union bots because of their higher natural speed. Energy neutralisers highly benefit Pelistal bots because that's what their E-War bots specialise in, while these bots don't even get any bonuses to other E-War like the other 2 factions do.

Lasers and Short Range Magnetics have quite high rates of fire. Especially when these rates of fire are further increased with skills I think there will be a need of a skill like this to keep lasers viable when combined with armor reps, shields and energy neuts.