Annihilator wrote:

@Hunter:
see it also a bit more starter crafting friendly. during tutorial, you get all the components you need to build a light bot - and at the end its your choice to either use them for crafting your first mining-bot, or to equip your mission reward light wink

Agree, but userfriendly is close to borders with causality. Alternatively, Devs can leave the current system for robots MK1, for MK2 and higher bots possible to make more difficult system.

Arga wrote:

Every change the devs have made to kernel drops has slowed down research.

Any improved system would need to take into account that the devs do not want it to be easy/fast to obtain tech.

Its totally feasible to remove the random aspect to kernel research, just bear in mind that knowing how many kernels it may take, doesn't mean that it will be faster. That is each kernel would be balanced to give a much smaller % because there wouldn't be any waste as there is with the current system.

If any new system generates research faster, then it also has to account for why faster research is desirable; it needs to prove that the devs current strategy of kernel reduction is wrong.

With my system, research will faster, but the consumption of kernels will be more. The consumption of kernel will be permanent. All kinds and all levels of the kernels will required.
Are You carefully read the first post?

Ok, here's my 2 cents:

2Annihilator:
You propose to construct different robots of the same parts? But you compare one class of robots. They all have different characteristics (reactor, the processor, the guidance system). How does it balance? With plasteozin?
In my opinion the current system is more logical. Robots are created only from the materials. For each creates its own reactor, CPU, etc. I would agree with the use of weapons tuning, but everything else does not really fit into the concept.
As a variant would be logical to create parts. For example "nuimqol reactor of light robot". With the introduction of similar parts can be discussed about the technological level of spare parts. That is, you can create a robot with the parts of different levels. This system can be realized as a prototyping. I think that people would want to be very expensive, but powerful robots.
At the factory can make the separation: MK1, MK2, MK3 and MK4 robots. To create these will be used the parts of same level.

2Gremrod:
Hey buddy! Treat with ease. What for compensation or RP (research points)? How are you going to regulate cross-technology? How are you going to learn the unknown something, only with RP?

About my offer:
I like that you are trying to offer something. But I ask to offer the balance instead of personal gain.

p.s. and i'm sorry for my english smile

Dralor wrote:

I would like all three of these ideas combined for a revamped KB system.

1. Speed up kernel grind "Hunter"
2. Point Pool for KB "Gremrod"
3. Complex building system "Annihilator"

To me that sounds like a more interesting system than what we currently have. Im sure some things would need to be rebalanced but I like it.

It would open up the possibility for more trade going on as well "IE you have t4 small laser unlocked, but not the t4 laser tuning. So you would need to buy those from market if you wanted to build them.

IMO anything that adds more activity to the market is a good thing atm.

All changes must be sequenced.

Creating a knowledge base will be very fast and the intermediate stage. Most of kernels will be necessary for the creation of prototypes or CT of prototypes.

You are worried for nothing. Nothing is going to change, and you already want compensation. smile

Maybe you misunderstood me.

Current knowledge bases should not be erased.

Theoretically, we are satisfied with the current system. And will arrange any compensation. We will be a huge win. But I doubt it is necessary.

Gremrod wrote:
Hunter wrote:
Gremrod wrote:

I do understand you idea, or maybe I don't.

Do you want to bypass the prototyping part and create CTs from Kernels + decoders?

almost right.
CT of prototypes, or prototypes. There is no bypassing. Base will need to learn anyway.

Ah okay I see.... Hmmm.

But if they adjust the level of kernels research values. How would you suggest the compinsate those that have already finished the tech tree with the current system?

Or do they need to be compisated?

Any compinsation not required. Prototyping should be a process, not a goal.

Gremrod wrote:
Hunter wrote:

Absolutely all types of kernel available on alpha islands. There is no problems.

I do understand you idea, or maybe I don't.

Do you want to bypass the prototyping part and create CTs from Kernels + decoders?

almost right.
CT of prototypes, or prototypes. There is no bypassing. Base will need to learn anyway.

Absolutely all types of kernel available on alpha islands. There is no problems.
If developers are warned in advance of such change, the crisis will not be exact.

Our corporation has several prototypers (t4). Everyone agrees with that system.Return of spent kernels is not required.

Hello everyone!

Last time i saw alot of messages regarding manufacturing and prototyping.
There is some obvious disadvantages in manufacturing system:

1) Money movement.

This server have two main sources of money income: plasma and missions. Where this money spends?
Hunters spending this money for modules and missiles (and for prototypes, in theory).
Manufacturers spending his money to miners for ore, to prototypers for prototypes.
Prototypers spending his money for kernels and ores.
Miners are on top of his money chain. They will rapidly get t4 equipment, they will safely mine on alpha. As result, miners got money for raw ores and materials.

As result, we have constant flow of money from hunters to miners. How it could be regulated, i dont know yet.

2) Mass production

Mass production is well balanced: devs just need to know what type of equipment should be accessible to the players, and he need just to make it from alpha materials. Theoretically, we have balance here, but this balance is not acceptable for a lot of players.

3) Prototyping

At the moment prototyping is a great obstacle. If you want to research knowledge base, you need to work hard. Knowledge base researching so long so corporations prototyper could drop his account. Obviously, this is not a best thing what could happen. This is not good when corporations forced to make one account with knowledge base.
Summary: there is a lot of risks in research system: trust, huge amount of work etc.
The problem is that finishing KB is a goal now, not a process.

I would like to propose a solution:

1) Speedup research in 20-50 times:
You taking kernel to the research lab. In this lab analysers will analyse the technology in this kernel, and they will tell you how many kernels you need to research all tech what related to this kernel.

2) Use kernels in prototyping
Assuming, you know about existing of certain tech, you gathering data what is inside of kernels. You need to extract this info from gathered kernels, to use it. How? Decoders will make a roll:
For example:
t1 - is level 0 of tech
t2 light - is level 1
t3 light - is level 2
t4 light - is level 3
t2 medium - is level 4
t3 medium - is level 5
t4 medium - is level 6

As result, you will need to extract a data from kernels for each desired tech level with certain decoder. this will make usefull all levels of decoders. This process could be called "targeted decoding".
After data was extracted from kernels, you will be able to create a prototype or CT. You can do it in two ways:
a) You can create a prototype from certain number of kernels and materials
b) you can create a CT of prototype from huge numbers of kernels.

Also, game will need to have three extensions: basic, advanced and expert research. This skill will reduce numbers of kernels what needs for prototypes/CT of prototypes. Also it will be good to tie research to factory level.

What we will have in result?

1) All players will rapidly research desirable tech.
2) Prototypes will be collective achievement, and solo achievement as well.
3) If prototyper will left a corp, this would be not tragic.
4) All kernels (all levels and types) will be required for research and for manufacturing.

This is raw idea. You can add whatever you want to this system: for example to make EW equipment you should combine some colors of kernels etc.

39

(88 replies, posted in Balancing)

Beasty wrote:

@ All of you people / trolls that are not talking about the main topic of the imbalance in the EP required to be proficient in specific DPS trees feel free to start other threads.

This topic is about how much EP it takes to train different DPS types. NOT about slot / fitting options  on bots that's another topic.

Problem: all turret skills are lumped in to a few skills making it super easy to cross train from Lasers To Magnetic Weapons to Firearms

This is not balanced to launchers as the launcher tree has no skills that transfer over to anything, where I could train sharp shooting ,  precision firing,  general firing, rapid firing, and the list goes on to have it apply to 3 different types of weapons.

This is not a problem. More precisely, this artificial (invented) problem.

40

(15 replies, posted in Balancing)

Annihilator wrote:

conclusion:

they are fine as they are.
-T4 gauss cannons got more advantages then disadvantages compared to the next lower tier.
-the lower magazine is a non-factor for someone who got that far to equip them already.

MechanID wrote:

type:               T3           T4
Cpu               35           38
Reactor        165           180
Ammo           60            20
Mass            500           555
Accumulator   17           20
Cycle               6           8
Damage     200%          300%
Optimal       165            175

Is this bug or this is nomal ?

Answer: its normal and intentional

How many times are you going to repeat the same thing? big_smile

41

(88 replies, posted in Balancing)

Hugh Ruka wrote:
Hunter wrote:

By the way I have a suggestion as to satisfy the owners turret robots (and maybe missile robots):
1) Add for turret mechs bonus +2% damage with per level pelistal robot control (like mk2 waspish bonus).
2) Useless bonus pelistal robot control +1% reducing cycle replace to +1% damage with missiles.

But who is interested in Hunters offer?.. In fact it is only food for the trolls.

afaik racial robot controll only applies when you are piloting a robot of that race. or did I get that one wrong ?

I'm not mistaken. Turret robots should be allowed to increase non-profile missile slots with non-profile pelistal robot control. It fits perfectly into the concept of nonlinearity.

42

(88 replies, posted in Balancing)

By the way I have a suggestion as to satisfy the owners turret robots (and maybe missile robots):
1) Add for turret mechs bonus +2% damage with per level pelistal robot control (like mk2 waspish bonus).
2) Useless bonus pelistal robot control +1% reducing cycle replace to +1% damage with missiles.

But who is interested in Hunters offer?.. In fact it is only food for the trolls.

43

(88 replies, posted in Balancing)

If we talk about diversity, we have turret mechs more restrictive than the missile robots.
Main combat unit in the game should be combat mech. Let's look at this:
Tyranos - can use the full profile equipment. As a bonus it has two additional slots for turrets and engineering equipment. They can neut, drain, recharge accumulators, use RSA etc.
By comparison, Kains with their missile slots are sucks. Artemis even more so.

I think you have the wrong beginning. We still have not heard the concept of developers.

What should be the game?

At the moment obvious to me that the main force in the game should be T3 combat mech. But T3 useless. In turret mechs is useless slots. Config fully equipped mechs much inferior in speed, but almost no benefit in other parameters (armor, firepower, etc.)
Absolute no concept of "Full equipped bot" and "Full t4 mk2 bot" (because problems with CPU/Reactor).

44

(88 replies, posted in Balancing)

Arga wrote:
Cobalt wrote:

Arga sorry but your argument about being needed to cross train faction extensions dont work in my case.

Btw saying there is no real difference between blue and yellow???  Did you try full T4 fit on HMs with the two kind of weapons to say that?  Because there are huge differences imo. Did you try each kind of weapons with full T4 range amplifier or full tuners?  I mean saying two weapon types "ressemble" themselves is clearly false.

-50% damage Adv robotics
-10% Critical hit
-x% Dmg/Crit for each Weapon tuning not installed

The difference between fitting for DPS and putting some weapons on a bot is tremedous. Are you saying that you have basic/advanced Mag/laser to 10 also, or did you concentrate most of your EP int ewar? I'm not talking about being able to 'fit' turret weapons, I'm talking about being effective with them in actual combat.

etc

he's right

45

(88 replies, posted in Balancing)

Sundial wrote:
Hunter wrote:

2) Real big problem with seismics, shields and evasive modules. Evasive module has a dual effect on the resulting damage (against shielded target).


This could be fixed by adding a new stat "Evasion". Evasive Modules give same amount of evasion as they subtracted from surface hit size.

When shot at: Effective Hit Size = Surface Size - Evasion

This would fix the problem.

There is another option. You can use the size of the shield instead of the size of the robot when calculating damage. The size of the robot can only be taken to calculate the absorption.

46

(88 replies, posted in Balancing)

Annihilator wrote:

...bla-bla-bla...

Grenade launchers will have a ballistic LoS calculation and GFX. Grenades are explosives, usually bla-bla-bla

Do you really believe that it need now?

Annihilator wrote:

...
if your using your missiles against a shielded target with evasive module equipped, as pelistal driver... ouch....

what is this? You should have something to say? You do not required to comment all my posts.

47

(88 replies, posted in Balancing)

0110011100001111001010001 wrote:

To wait 217 days and *** and Pillage with a green bot....seriously Green are actually very overpowered...just people don't use them as much to pull there maximum potential out.

Everyone wants to change something that hasn't really even been vetted as of yet.

Actually you also do not know about what you say.

I have not seen here that sounded important facts:
1) Damage from the missiles does not increase with the tech-level.
2) Real big problem with seismics, shields and evasive modules. Evasive module has a dual effect on the resulting damage (against shielded target).
Sounded, but not discussed:
3) Many problems with speed/reactor/cpu/etc/etc/etc/etc/etc....

I hope that here does not need a formula to explain you the uselessness of extensions and modules that reduce the cycle. And I hope there is not need to explain a huge effect of extensions and modules that increase the damage.

Green are not overpowered.

48

(15 replies, posted in Balancing)

Question asked by man from the Russian corporation. If no one is against, I'll explain in Russian.

Раньше т4 гаусы были очень страшным оружием в сочетании с болванками магнедарт. Отряд из 10 таких каинов буквально ваншотили всё и всех (прибавь еще пакеты магнитного оружия). Даже такое занижение в цикле и кол-ве зарядов не сильно влияло на убойность оружия. Но все-же ограничения были - что бы все подряд не пользовались.
После введения АОЕ, изменения свойств болванок возможно не так сильно очевидно преимущество т4 по сравнении с т3, но поверь все в порядке тут.

49

(15 replies, posted in Balancing)

Celebro wrote:

Thanks for the info hunter. I guess HM are still pretty darn good wink

Actually yes.

50

(15 replies, posted in Balancing)

For proportionality is enough to add a bonus of advanced robotics (+5% per level) for the Mesmers.