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Line wrote:Hunter wrote:Line wrote:6) Time for ERP-Hunter!
Thanks for tro-lo-lo.
You already posted this "issue" alotz of times, in same or other words. Each time you got the same answer. Why do you still keep posting?
NO, people leaving NOT beause of ERP-nerf
NO, people leaving NOT because of T4 production cost
NO, people leaving NOT because of HMech production cost
NO, people leaving NOT because of larger group of t1-fitted bots can defeat smaller group of t4-fitted bots
Everyone are mining here to afford that t4....Why don't you just do the same?
Enough of QQ here. go mine, biachtiz
Yep. Don't cry my hater... 
Line wrote:6) Time for ERP-Hunter!
Thanks for tro-lo-lo.
...new theme, old trolling...
1st of all we need to change forum mechanics. Now we have the next scheme:
1) Author posts obvious problem.
2) Some people agree. Some disagree.
3) When the arguments ends - starts trolling of author's post.
4) Author bored and tired. He go away.
5) Trolls wins again.
Mark Zima wrote:Explosion damage mechanic is good as it is, nerfing it would be a step backwards.
Because you can't kill enemy with weapons? nooooob 
Lucius Marcellus wrote:Seems we have more of an agreement then. However, I do not think your idea requires research to be done faster (doing that would just create a long balancing act as we've talked about extensively).
Edit:
Can we clarify this whole prototype vs prototype CT thing? I thought it was just Researched VS Unresearched prototypes, where the unresearched one is far more expensive?
We can discuss the variants...
Red Bishop wrote:learn english please.
You hate me? Why? Dear Bishop... it's just a game!
Line wrote:So at the end:
1. To create a prototype, you should use kernels and decoders.
2. To create a CT from a prototype, you should use kernels and decoders.
Is that correct?
1. To create a prototype, you should use materials, kernels and decoders.
2. To create a prototype-CT, you should use many kernels and decoders. (prototype not required)
And before you should learn item.
Line wrote:Hunter wrote:Line wrote:But plated kamikaze is a bit slow, don't it? So Hmech with his range can simply kill that kami before he aproaches on the blow distance.
That is, you've come to talk about balance, not having any data? Well, I see how you escape on gropho from the plated Kains.
1. WTF Gropho fights ALONE vs a COUPLE of plated Kains?
2. WTF plated Kains simply don't shoot that Gropho?
3. WTF are you use Mechs that actually expensive enough for suicide kami attacks?
With 1, 2 and 3 - which else data should I have to realise that there is nothing to balance except l2p?
You do not understand the conversation. We are talking about squad. 3 Kains could kill 2-3 Gropho with ease.
Lucius Marcellus wrote:Hunter wrote:Annihilator wrote:hunters suggestion is working like fragments:
you either use them for prototyping, or your recycle them and use the materials
his suggestion is:
Kernels are used like fragments in prototype construction, and two options:
you either research kernels and get a long term KB that is reducing your kernel-costs when creating a prototype
or
you use many of them to create a single prototype without KB.
result:
even if you have finished your research, you still need to consume kernels
and
if your desperate to build a certain item no matter the costs, you can do it directly.
You forgot about CTs of prototypes. They will creates without any materials except kernels and decoders.
That is a lot clearer! (I was not able to extract that from the initial post, but kudos!) Hunter, can you confirm this is what you meant?
I'm not sure why the research speed has to be adjusted though. One can add a kernel requirement for making prototype, and simply add the option to make an expensive version if you do not have the research. However, I need to point out that the prototype is a small fraction of the per item cost when producing, so in order to balance this well, the unresearched prototype must be extremely expensive in terms of kernels needed.
You get the idea.
1) KB will exist in any case. But learning will be simple and faster.
2) Prototypes will creates with mateerials+kernels+decoders (in various combinations)
3) CT of prototypes will creates only with kernels+decoders. It's provides create prototypes in factory. (here expensive kernel cost)
Red Bishop wrote:TL;DR
woof woof! woof woof!
Seth is ok. Your members can confirm it. 
You come to troll chaos here? epic fail. Go out.
Annihilator wrote:hunters suggestion is working like fragments:
you either use them for prototyping, or your recycle them and use the materials
his suggestion is:
Kernels are used like fragments in prototype construction, and two options:
you either research kernels and get a long term KB that is reducing your kernel-costs when creating a prototype
or
you use many of them to create a single prototype without KB.
result:
even if you have finished your research, you still need to consume kernels
and
if your desperate to build a certain item no matter the costs, you can do it directly.
You forgot about CTs of prototypes. They will creates without any materials except kernels and decoders.
Line wrote:But plated kamikaze is a bit slow, don't it? So Hmech with his range can simply kill that kami before he aproaches on the blow distance.
That is, you've come to talk about balance, not having any data? Well, I see how you escape on gropho from the plated Kains.
Guys, the solution is simple. I repeat:
Hunter wrote:TLDR
I propose to remove from the calculation of the explosion HP plates, because this is insanity.
2-3 plated mechs is enough to destroy a high-tech squad.
I mean exactly HP of Plates. Basic HP you can keep in the formulas.
Annihilator wrote: i agree that the Robot AoE is not implemented very balanced - IMHO, robot should not explode instantly. More like in Mechwarrior, where they slowly overload and then explode, with time to escape 
We thought about it. But not the best option. How much will you give time for detonation? The speed of heavy robot 45 km/h.
and more:
(Heavy robot with lvf + demob) + kamikaze = death
Heavy robot with plates + (kamikaze with plates + demob) = death (because kamikaze have resist to demob)
I mean that kamikaze anyway faster.
Lucius Marcellus wrote:Lucius Marcellus wrote:Hunter's system
First of all, as you want to speed-up gaining the initial tech by 20-50 times, it's extremely easy to get, and provides no barrier what-so-ever. Then you are proposing that kernels should be required to make the items. This might sound cool, but it is really just an increase in material cost.
...etc....
If you want to get back on topic, please respond to this then Hunter. (and no, your response about mining vs hunters income was insanely out of topic from this)
Honestly I do not understand the essence of your question. In the first post, I described a system of movement of money in the game. Obviously the movement and accumulation of money at the miners. If you increase the amount of materials the flow of money to the miners will increase too. Therefore, I am against the increase in material cost. Why do I need to repeat that has been said already?
About barrier study was an important point. Now the man who overcame the barrier of research can relax and do nothing. This is bad because the person is deprived of purpose. He can just dig materials to make prototypes. Materials that are missing, he can buy (cheap).
Kernel of the first level learn quickly and become useless.
First-level decoders generally not used except for begginers (try).
I propose to make the system of research as a process instead of the ultimate goal.
Ok. Then I suggest a separate topic with a discussion of this idea.
Guys...
RP idea was taken from the WoW. There you can learn recipes from trainers and with using of scrolls. Crafting with difficult recipes (marked orange) you can raise skill of craft.
If you take an idea from this game, I suggest to add paladins and elves. (why not?)
Line wrote:Blah-blah-blah, now back to the topic.
Any new system shouldn't make research process harder than the current one - new players already have an disadvantage due to decreasing kernel droprate, implementing and then removing grand observers (and decreasing their kernel droprate too), decreasing droprate of tiered stuff aswell. Current perpetuum life became more harder than that one we have right after release. And btw any changes were already made didn't affected players knowledge base in any way - thats about any rewards you're asking for.
Back to the pool idea - to prevent any not-too-useful-to-spend-research points-to issues, all the technologies may be linked somehow, based on logic or even adding brand new technology lines. Says, to get sensor amps t2, you should learn more about electronics - so you should learn all these cargo and chassis scanners to get an advantage with that.
Hunter wrote:Imagine a torn book. Pages scattered over a territory. Suppose there are ten different books. You are gathered by 15-20% of the pages from each book. Do you know the theory of probability? Believe me, even if it's the same books, you will have very little chance to collect all the pages for a complete copy.
How RP is combined with the reality?
Everyone knows about Line's hatred of me. For the sake of hatred you are ready to accept any solution other than my.
Can you offer something of your own? Or you fear of criticism?
Very funny.
As I understand it you have not read after words "The current system is better balanced than suggested by you."
I am upset ... I wanted to create a topic in order to improve the mechanics of production. But I see a discussion about how to make the system more convenient for you.
Gremrod:
The current system is better balanced than suggested by you. It is a difficult and unpredictable, but it's better. Do you know why?
Imagine a torn book. Pages scattered over a territory. Suppose there are ten different books. You are gathered by 15-20% of the pages from each book. Do you know the theory of probability? Believe me, even if it's the same books, you will have very little chance to collect all the pages for a complete copy.
And now tell me how RP is combined with the reality?
Dear players. I beg to forget about personal gain here. I do not insist on the fact that my system is better. Let's develop something completely new, but correct.
Annihilator wrote:Hunter wrote:....
P.S. Need figures to confirm?
yes please.
AoE damage was lowered with patch (in fact), so please shoot with some figures
Today we walked around the alsbeyl. And there to us organized a warm welcome F NAVY.
As a result of a friendly meeting on our Seth was damaged by AoE:
Mordingus {Artemis}
[20:54:52] {N/A} > 5175.71 damage > Chastener
Qyro{Artemis}
[20:55:37] {N/A} > 6630.58 damage > Chastener
Alkanys{Kain} - dead from Qyro AOE
[20:55:37] {N/A} > 3356.18 damage > Chastener
Lucius Marcellus wrote:Hunter's system
First of all, as you want to speed-up gaining the initial tech by 20-50 times, it's extremely easy to get, and provides no barrier what-so-ever. Then you are proposing that kernels should be required to make the items. This might sound cool, but it is really just an increase in material cost.
Hence, your proposal is to make everyone able to make T4, but increase the production cost. I think it's pretty clear that the developers do not only want T4 to be fairly expensive, but also quite hard to get (given the trend of requiring more kernels). But even so, if you want to increase the cost, why not just increase the materials needed?
As the cost of items can easily be changed with the components required, you are really just suggesting to remove the barrier of research. I'm against that as I believe the higher level tech items are meant to be at least in some sense limited access.
The increase in prices of materials will increase the flow of money towards the miners. I think that this is unacceptable.
Necessary to remove the linearity of money from hunters to the miners.
Shrapnel? excellent! That is, before his death plates turns into many smaller pieces, which are evenly fly in different directions, causing enormous damage.
Let's look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrapnel_shell
Shrapnel shells were anti-personnel artillery munitions which.....................
Do you know why anti-personnel? Because it's useless against plated tanks.
This game is far from reality. But at this point feels a clear imbalance.
Few lyrics:
Leeloo: ...jella boom!
Korben Dallas: Boom. Yeah! I understand boom.
Leeloo: Bada boom.
Korben Dallas: Big... yeah, big bada boom.
Leeloo: Big! Bada big boom! Big! BOOM!
Korben Dallas: Yeah! Big bada boom!
Leeloo: Bada boom!
Korben Dallas: Yeah-hahaha! Big boom! Big bada boom!
Good day!
This time, I propose to discuss the AoE in the game. For me, as for many obviously a huge impact of armor plates on the power explosion. Fine! Let's now look at the components of plates: T1 and T2 using titanium and plasteozin. T3 and T4 - also need alligiore (why? probably for extra strength). Very well!!1
So, can a titan explode? Yes!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium
As a powder or in the form of metal shavings, titanium metal poses a significant fire hazard and, when heated in air, an explosion hazard
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrophoricity
This means that the robot before his death, makes all its titanium plating to a powder and... BAM!
But seriously:
Why do not explode until the armor robot alive and do not cause damage to the owner?
How can they be reliable protection during the lifetime of the robot and terrible weapon after his death?
How is the robot before his death to make a plate of titanium in the powder? (otherwise the titanium does not explode or even ignite)
In what universe this should be?
TLDR
I propose to remove from the calculation of the explosion HP plates, because this is insanity.
2-3 plated mechs is enough to destroy a high-tech squad.
P.S. Need figures to confirm?
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