1 (edited by Hunter 2011-10-16 14:00:08)

Topic: Big bada boom!

Few lyrics:

Leeloo: ...jella boom!
Korben Dallas: Boom.  Yeah!  I understand boom.
Leeloo: Bada boom.
Korben Dallas: Big... yeah,  big bada boom.
Leeloo: Big!  Bada big boom!  Big!  BOOM!
Korben Dallas: Yeah!  Big bada boom!
Leeloo: Bada boom! 
Korben Dallas: Yeah-hahaha!  Big boom!  Big bada boom!

Good day!

This time, I propose to discuss the AoE in the game. For me, as for many obviously a huge impact of armor plates on the power explosion. Fine! Let's now look at the components of plates: T1 and T2 using titanium and plasteozin. T3 and T4 - also need alligiore (why? probably for extra strength). Very well!!1
So, can a titan explode? Yes!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium
As a powder or in the form of metal shavings, titanium metal poses a significant fire hazard and, when heated in air, an explosion hazard
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrophoricity

This means that the robot before his death, makes all its titanium plating to a powder and... BAM!

But seriously:
Why do not explode until the armor robot alive and do not cause damage to the owner?
How can they be reliable protection during the lifetime of the robot and terrible weapon after his death?
How is the robot before his death to make a plate of titanium in the powder? (otherwise the titanium does not explode or even ignite)
In what universe this should be?

TLDR
I propose to remove from the calculation of the explosion HP plates, because this is insanity.
2-3 plated mechs is enough to destroy a high-tech squad.

P.S. Need figures to confirm?

This is not sandbox. This is a Box of Chocolates...

Re: Big bada boom!

ever heard of shrapnells ?
the more destroyed armor you have, the more pieces are flying around when you explode (damaged armor doesnt fall down to the ground)

the AoE damage got nerfed a bit (10-20%), also armor plates increasing your hitsize in AoE calculation = less damage dealt.

i think the DEV forgot how the extensions multiply the hitpoints of each armorplate (a T1 medium gives me more then 2k hitpoints)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

3 (edited by Hunter 2011-10-16 13:44:20)

Re: Big bada boom!

Shrapnel? excellent! That is, before his death plates turns into many smaller pieces, which are evenly fly in different directions, causing enormous damage. smile


Let's look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrapnel_shell
Shrapnel shells were anti-personnel artillery munitions which.....................
Do you know why anti-personnel? Because it's useless against plated tanks.

This game is far from reality. But at this point feels a clear imbalance.

This is not sandbox. This is a Box of Chocolates...

Re: Big bada boom!

Hunter wrote:

....
P.S. Need figures to confirm?

yes please.

AoE damage was lowered with patch (in fact), so please shoot with some figures wink

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

5 (edited by Hunter 2011-10-16 14:25:49)

Re: Big bada boom!

Annihilator wrote:
Hunter wrote:

....
P.S. Need figures to confirm?

yes please.

AoE damage was lowered with patch (in fact), so please shoot with some figures wink

Today we walked around the alsbeyl. And there to us organized a warm welcome F NAVY.
As a result of a friendly meeting on our Seth was damaged by AoE:
Mordingus {Artemis}
[20:54:52] {N/A} > 5175.71 damage > Chastener
Qyro{Artemis}
[20:55:37] {N/A} > 6630.58 damage > Chastener
Alkanys{Kain} - dead from Qyro AOE
[20:55:37] {N/A} > 3356.18 damage > Chastener

This is not sandbox. This is a Box of Chocolates...

Re: Big bada boom!

AOE damage from mech, what allmost equals his initial hitpoints indicating disballance with disadvantage to heavies. Need to be fixed.

Re: Big bada boom!

Alexadar wrote:

AOE damage from mech, what allmost equals his initial hitpoints indicating disballance with disadvantage to heavies. Need to be fixed.

Hows that? HMechs have more initial HP and more legslots than a mechs so if fitted correctly, they can cause even more AoE damage when blowing up.

Seriously, I don't really think it's a balance problem that needs any change. If you don't pay attention on distance between you and the bot that going to blow, thats mostly l2p problem IMO.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Big bada boom!

How much time does a mech spend shooting to do "normal" 5-6k damage?

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Big bada boom!

it should be tied to the amount of accumulator the bot has at the time of death :-)

Re: Big bada boom!

2..3 cheap,t1,lwf+plated mechs could do a suicide run into h-mech squad because of speed advantage and powerfull aoe.

Re: Big bada boom!

Alexadar wrote:

2..3 cheap,t1,lwf+plated mechs could do a suicide run into h-mech squad because of speed advantage and powerfull aoe.

...or it can be alots of lights, even more cheaper. I think there should be some people in a squad that will try and protect HMechs from such kamikaze.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Big bada boom!

Line wrote:
Alexadar wrote:

2..3 cheap,t1,lwf+plated mechs could do a suicide run into h-mech squad because of speed advantage and powerfull aoe.

...or it can be alots of lights, even more cheaper.  I think there should be some people in a squad that will try and protect HMechs from such kamikaze.

This guys who protecting expensive squad from a ways of cheaper bots have locking time, dps and speed. Yes, you can make cheap meatshield in a front of your expensive mech squad, but if you fighting equal by pilots enemy, he can decide to put out N waves of cheap lights instead of 1 heavy mech.

If anyone interested about what im talking about, just calculate how many light+lwf+medium plate you can make from 5000 of alligor (cost of 1 heavy mech) converted in NIC and converted in alpha ores\commodities. Then calculate count of waves against the enemy mech squad.

You can say "Hey, its your problem if you cant resist a squad of lights". Well...each mech have a los, a locking time, a speed and else factor what making disadvantage before equal by cost, equal by count but dont equal by reinforcements light swarm with current ballance.

I'm not complaining about "Make my heavy mech better! They should PWN OLOLOLO". Im just again asking about: "Make my efforts worth the time i spent here".

Make mech's and heavies powerful, or make them cheaper in production. Both solutions are good.

Re: Big bada boom!

Syndic wrote:

How much time does a mech spend shooting to do "normal" 5-6k damage?

About 15 volleys.
With resistances 18+ volleys.

That isn't many when you can get cycle time below 5 seconds with that much DPS.
Then have three mechs doing that much damage and no tank would survive (Unless repair fitted and even then it's rare)

Re: Big bada boom!

Alexadar wrote:

I'm not complaining about "Make my heavy mech better! They should PWN OLOLOLO". Im just again asking about: "Make my efforts worth the time i spent here".

Make mech's and heavies powerful, or make them cheaper in production. Both solutions are good.

What do you want at all?

I've didn't heard someone started to use kami mechs to destroy Hmechs. I don't even think everyone use kami tactics in every fight. Yes, the cost of HMech is bigger than a cost of Mech or Light or whatever. But balance can't be based on cost of production, no sir. That will make game too linear.

Mechs and HMechs already got their advantage in HP - now it's more harder to kill them with lights/assaults.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Big bada boom!

Hugh Ruka wrote:

it should be tied to the amount of accumulator the bot has at the time of death :-)

it is...

actually, the explosion damage is only 40% of the max hitpoint * accumulator recharge modifier at moment of death

means - neut the targets down to zero before you kill them, and they explode with 40% spectral damage
let them explode with 50% accumulator, and they explode with 80% of their max hipoints spectral damage

@Line: no, Heavy mechs do not deal much more damage to smaller targets when they fit armor plates.

light bot with medium armor plate = 4m explosion vs. 8m or 10m = 100% damage
heavy mech with medium armor plates = 11-16m explosion vs. 4m hitsize = 25%-36% damage

so, assaults without lwf are able to survive AoE explosion of a plated Seth, but a non-LWF fitted seth can die easily from one or two exploding sequer.

seems best tactic against jihad-tactics, is same as against erp tanks: supress, neut, kill.

last but no least:
i agree that the Robot AoE is not implemented very balanced - IMHO, robot should not explode instantly. More like in Mechwarrior, where they slowly overload and then explode, with time to escape wink

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Big bada boom!

Annihilator wrote:

i agree that the Robot AoE is not implemented very balanced - IMHO, robot should not explode instantly. More like in Mechwarrior, where they slowly overload and then explode, with time to escape wink

We thought about it. But not the best option. How much will you give time for detonation? The speed of heavy robot 45 km/h.

and more:
(Heavy robot with lvf + demob) + kamikaze = death
Heavy robot with plates + (kamikaze with plates + demob) = death (because kamikaze have resist to demob)
I mean that kamikaze anyway faster.

This is not sandbox. This is a Box of Chocolates...

17 (edited by Hunter 2011-10-17 12:59:42)

Re: Big bada boom!

Guys, the solution is simple. I repeat:

Hunter wrote:

TLDR
I propose to remove from the calculation of the explosion HP plates, because this is insanity.
2-3 plated mechs is enough to destroy a high-tech squad.

I mean exactly HP of Plates. Basic HP you can keep in the formulas.

This is not sandbox. This is a Box of Chocolates...

Re: Big bada boom!

But plated kamikaze is a bit slow, don't it? So Hmech with his range can simply kill that kami before he aproaches on the blow distance.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

19 (edited by Hunter 2011-10-17 13:06:30)

Re: Big bada boom!

Line wrote:

But plated kamikaze is a bit slow, don't it? So Hmech with his range can simply kill that kami before he aproaches on the blow distance.

That is, you've come to talk about balance, not having any data? Well, I see how you escape on gropho from the plated Kains.

This is not sandbox. This is a Box of Chocolates...

Re: Big bada boom!

TL;DR

Chaos player NEARLY loses seth mk2 due to mech'splosions - Chaos chief goes to forum and cry for nerf.

21 (edited by Hunter 2011-10-17 13:21:34)

Re: Big bada boom!

Red Bishop wrote:

TL;DR
woof woof! woof woof!

Seth is ok. Your members can confirm it. smile You come to troll chaos here? epic fail. Go out.

This is not sandbox. This is a Box of Chocolates...

Re: Big bada boom!

learn english please.

Re: Big bada boom!

Hunter wrote:
Line wrote:

But plated kamikaze is a bit slow, don't it? So Hmech with his range can simply kill that kami before he aproaches on the blow distance.

That is, you've come to talk about balance, not having any data? Well, I see how you escape on gropho from the plated Kains.

1. WTF Gropho fights ALONE vs a COUPLE of plated Kains?
2. WTF plated Kains simply don't shoot that Gropho?
3. WTF are you use Mechs that actually expensive enough for suicide kami attacks?

With 1, 2 and 3 - which else data should I have to realise that there is nothing to balance except l2p?

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Big bada boom!

Line wrote:
Hunter wrote:
Line wrote:

But plated kamikaze is a bit slow, don't it? So Hmech with his range can simply kill that kami before he aproaches on the blow distance.

That is, you've come to talk about balance, not having any data? Well, I see how you escape on gropho from the plated Kains.

1. WTF Gropho fights ALONE vs a COUPLE of plated Kains?
2. WTF plated Kains simply don't shoot that Gropho?
3. WTF are you use Mechs that actually expensive enough for suicide kami attacks?

With 1, 2 and 3 - which else data should I have to realise that there is nothing to balance except l2p?

You do not understand the conversation. We are talking about squad. 3 Kains could kill 2-3 Gropho with ease.

This is not sandbox. This is a Box of Chocolates...

Re: Big bada boom!

Red Bishop wrote:

learn english please.

You hate me? Why? Dear Bishop... it's just a game!

This is not sandbox. This is a Box of Chocolates...