Arga wrote:The challenge for mining should not be combat based, not everything in the game needs risk vs reward, indy should be balanced with time vs reward.
That said, and I've made this clear before and I agree with Scyylla, there has to be a certain level of risk everytime you undock.
In the case of mining however, the reward of mining (alph mining) does not need to be balanced to the risks associated with PVE combat; that's too extreme.
The risk level for mining should be to prevent 'unattended' mining. A character that chooses to specialize in (alpha) mining shouldn't have to also fit for combat/defense. The example of putting a sheild on a miner is a perfect example. Ignoring the skill cost for the moment, the CPU requirements are right on the edge for fitting a riveler with lasers, tuninings, and acc rechargers. The sheild requires more than just a minor loss of yeild, as a shield only prevents bumps and scrapes without hardners. Because of CPU and Hardners, your talking about removing all Indy tuners.
I always like to turn these type of suggestions around, so we can view it from all points. Shield provide no value to a miner's main purpose, which is to increase ore/hour. If there was a change that required combat pilots to swap all thier weapon tuners out for indy tuners, would that be acceptable? As a combat pilot myself, I know that I would think that was a bad idea.
The only real defense miners have is to get out of harms way, or as Robo points out, to mine where there is no danger. Fully fitted Rivelers Nav 10 with t4 LWF move 67 Kph, and about -10 kph demobbed *s*. They simply can't escape without adequate time. And even with a sheild and hardners, the SO could demob and kill a riveler without suffcient warning.
Please note that all this applys only to alpha mining.
Some risk is acceptable, but mining is not a combat related activity, so does not need to be balanced with the reward. It takes time to mine, that is the investment for reward.
I am glad that we agree that every time you undock risk should be involved however if random spawns don't target and attack miners when they stumble on them where is the risk? There should be a threat of being sent back to the station in a violent manner every time you undock not just when you are afk.
Currently miners do have the choice to fit a tank or fit for maximum yield. Just like a PVE bot has to fit based on the spawn they are going to kill. Many times this will involve removing tunings to add range. It may also involve removing rechargers or stabs for tank. Every situation is different but the PVE toon still has to choose between gimping range, speed, damage, recharge or tank. The PVE toon doesn't get the option to be able to do it all on their bot. By your example, removing the tunings on a bot to increase the range would reduce the efficiency of killing your spawn quickly and reduce the amount of your rewards. PVE bots have to make that choice all the time.
Miners (I am one of them) do invest time to mine their rewards however don't discount the time you and all the other PVE toons invest in farming spawns, scanning sites or running missions. Each of those actives has the risk of having your bot violenced and mining should have the same consequences in my opinion.
Think about this one for a second:
Fit your PVE bot to infini-tank a spawn and just sit there.... Does your cargo fill up with modules, plasma and kernels? Where is the reward for the time you spent sitting infini-tanking a spawn?
That is part of the problem with a time vs reward system. You can spend time doing any number of things and get no reward. Also, it seems that the devs in their infinite wisdom may have already done a time vs reward system. We now have isotopes that you can only get by mining. I know they nerfed the refining of mods and put this in it's place but it does make an excellent reward. Mine titan or Liquidzit and get EPI. The more time you invest in mining the more isotopes you will have!
Do I think that everytime you turn on a mining laser that a spawn should appear with bad intentions? No I don't. Random spawns causing the occassional wtfbbqpwnage of an indy bot is an acceptable consequence to undocking. It will discourage afk mining and encourage miners to be a bit more vigilant of their surroundings. We are on a hostile world aren't we?
