51 Reply by Sundial

(1,455 replies, posted in General discussion)

So I just read the entire thread. I have an idea, so bear with me.

Suggestion: Add a "spark recalibration time". For each 1000m*some_multiplier you teleport from or to gamma or beta, you add 1 minute to your spark recalibration timer.

Your spark recalibration timer will accumulate from jumps up to 24 hours ago in which time after it will start to clear. This will make people think about where they spark to and prevent excess abuse of fast travel. Jumping back and forth to a far away station would add quite a bit of extra calibration time, you would need to pick and choose sparks wisely else you could wind up with a timer that lasted quite a while, but obviously never more than 6 hours or so.

By doing this you would have to choose your sparks wisely and you couldn't use it to jump around rapidly too much. This would give back tactical relevance to where your staging island is. Now granted there would still be easy ways to game the system such as jumping around multiple alt scout characters but technically you can already do that anyway without spark teleport so it doesn't matter too much.

Dev Zoom, I know you remember why intrusion 2.0 was put in place. It obviously was for a lesser reason than what the current spark teleport system enables. We shouldn't be encouraging spam of fast travel mechanics unless there are serious drawbacks to them.

An easier solution is lowering the spark limit to 5 locations, that would at least limit the scope of power projection the current system enables. Still though the fact that its instant and without a cool down still opens this solution to abuse even with a more limited scope.

EDIT:

I don't see alliances using spark teleport for sap defences as a problem. Showing up to defend your outpost is important. Too many defenses in one day will obviously wear any entity under attack out. What I do see as a problem is abusing sparks in combination with detectors and then projecting a force to an island every time its used. Spark teleport is a good feature for convenience and pinpointed strategic uses. We do need to stop any potential for abuse via excessive power projection in combination with scouting as well as giving staging islands locations tactical significance. If you want to fully control your islands use you really need to be there.

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52 Reply by Sundial

(293 replies, posted in News and information)

He does have a point though. The reason we had the Intrusion 2.0 system was for the exact same reason they are complaining about spark teleport being overpowered. A single entity was keeping most of the beta outposts locked down. The system allowed for too efficient of power projection, allowing alliances to control far more territory then they could actually use. This was before lockouts too. Spark teleport is indescribably far more powerful than gaming the old intrusion system.

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53 Reply by Sundial

(13 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

This will encourage a more functional and fluid economy. Also this was needed at gamma launch. +1

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54 Reply by Sundial

(15 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

Shadowmine wrote:

NO MORE PLANTS!!! For the love of all that is good and holy!!

Hey I like tending to my crops sad

This would be fine as long as epriton remains essential to T3/T4 production. Thats more than enough to ensure it remains 100% relevant.

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55 Reply by Sundial

(165 replies, posted in General discussion)

Martha Stuart wrote:

and that was with static ore spawns so everyone knew where we were, and no walls.  We also, like many others, successfully ninja mined huge quantities in hostile territory.

Takes me back to my glory days in 62nd when we held public epriton mining sessions on Novastrov (at the time held by our arch nemesis CIR) and invited everyone to come lol

I look forward to some hardcore mining sessions supported by multiple ewar mechs and spider shield tanking logistics big_smile

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56 Reply by Sundial

(293 replies, posted in News and information)

Tux wrote:
Sundial wrote:

Tux the difference now is the research is available since the game has been out this long combined with the new research system.

Epriton wasn't the main bottleneck for T4 production back then, prototyping was for 99% of the player base.....

This wont change availability of T4 items, it will however change their prices.

edit:

clarification

It will change both I assure you (when minerals are readily accessible it spurs market activity ... when you have to fight for resources the fruits of your labor are worth much more and not always just sold to the highest bidder.) ... Before when static spawns were around the main Prototyper of each corp was the main person who used epriton .. that person would make CT's for others who needed epriton also to make the goods. when epriton was limited to 6 islands it was a bottleneck in high end production that is why the price of epriton was extremely high in the past compared to now.

Epriton floats around 5 to 8 nic because of its availability through gamma ... its not a bottle neck right now ...

Limiting it again to only 6 islands will recreate the same high prices that we saw in the past ... add in the increased need for it for gamma structures and it will be a HUGE bottleneck...

Still back then epriton wasn't unlimited on those 6 islands. It is now, meaning you can just spark to a beta you control, run a mining op till the field is dead then just scan down another and continue assuming you are not interupted. Its availability for gamma entities isn't goint to decrease but the logistics overhead of acquiring it and moving it to your production facility is. Yes you could call that a bottleneck but I don't beleive its as serious of one as you are making it out to be.

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57 Reply by Sundial

(293 replies, posted in News and information)

Martha Stuart wrote:
Shadowmine wrote:

As a miner, I say HOORAY for 14 nic per unit of Epi! Mining is a viable profession again!

I second this, the market has been in a slump recently.  for any marketeers out there this is gonna be good, its gonna force prices up to where they should be.  Not only because Epri is harder to get, but from what i can tell there will be fewer people mining it.  this will drive the entire market up.

Also, Merkle will do wonders for the argano and termis market yarr

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58 Reply by Sundial

(293 replies, posted in News and information)

Tux the difference now is the research is available since the game has been out this long combined with the new research system.

Epriton wasn't the main bottleneck for T4 production back then, prototyping was for 99% of the player base.....

This wont change availability of T4 items, it will however change their prices.

edit:

clarification

Go to forum: News and information

59 Reply by Sundial

(293 replies, posted in News and information)

Arga wrote:
Shadowmine wrote:

It makes me wonder how Epriton was ever mined in this game back when it was a beta only resource. Especially when there were static ore fields were the enemy always knew the location of all the epi fields on the island.... I mean, it sounds like it wasn't able to be done....

It was done with 200 man corps, locking the island down at first.

Then it was done behind walls.

Then it was done with scouts on the gates and logg-offski.

Then it was done with probes, scouts, and log-offs.


Now, with bastards being able to spark in.... good luck ninja mining on beta-1 islands.

True ninja miners will adapt their strategies to new dangers like spark teleport.

I already have several interesting strategies in mind to try, good luck to those hunting me you are going to need it yarr

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60 Reply by Sundial

(293 replies, posted in News and information)

Line wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

Regarding NPCs on fields the only thing I agree with is that it must be a pita to mine under constant lock jamming. Maybe we can come up with something for that.

I don't want to derail this topic so see this one.

That would kill all the terrraforming defence purposes, make turrrets useless, etc etc. How? A terraformer bot with ECCM immune to ew.

Maybe something like a Seige or Triage module? Can't move but are immune to ewar for the duration of the cycle time.

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61 Reply by Sundial

(165 replies, posted in General discussion)

DEV Zoom wrote:
Arga wrote:

Not again... your making us give up a (tuner) head slot to go out and PVE; as well as adding in an additional acc draw sad

Well, good thing it's optional smile

What do you suggest we do about heavy mech explosion damage? Simply not kill the NPC's / jam / neut them out?

Thats the only thing I can think of. It might actually lead to some interesting mining big_smile

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62 Reply by Sundial

(293 replies, posted in News and information)

Martha Stuart wrote:
Shadowmine wrote:

Why has no one read my previous post yet!!!! It explains everything.....

I read it sir, and i agree.  Ninja mining was some of the most butt puckering excitement Perp has ever given me, not to mention that you could make huge profits from it too.

Read the whole thing as well and it was spot on Shadow. I too share Martha's sentiments on ninja mining big_smile

Outsmarting the sharks looking for you is half the fun of it too, I say bring it on!

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63 Reply by Sundial

(293 replies, posted in News and information)

Zortarg Calltar wrote:
Heliaso wrote:

The problem here is not BETA or GAMMA, the problem is NPC on minerals field.

well its not only high risk. it might also be hard to get. that would mean to get a few combats as well to keep the npcs of the miners. its a mmo if i remember correctly. so maybe epriton will not always be for the casual single player miner. and i think there is nothing wrong with it.

What about heavy mech explosion damage though big_smile

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64 Reply by Sundial

(293 replies, posted in News and information)

Arga: Gamma industry is still worth it. The T3 facility levels combined with the mining auras and current levels of safety means its still worth it to live, mine, and produce on gamma. Even if they took that complete safety away, it would still be worth it. Now we just need to import epriton from players willing to take risks.

We have re opened an old forgotten style of gameplay, the high risk high reward miner. This is good for the game.

EDIT:

In reply to the ganking thing, I was never big on actually ganking miners. I only did it when I was in a roaming gang. I was however huge on ninja mining epriton and other ores on beta. Its how I supported everything else I did ingame.

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65 Reply by Sundial

(293 replies, posted in News and information)

Excellent changes devs. Thank you for giving miners some element of risk and profit back smile. Not all of us are content to sit in 100% safety and mine away nearly worthless ore when there are profits to be made yarr

This is a step in the right direction away from total gamma safety and self sufficiency.

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66 Reply by Sundial

(1 replies, posted in Balancing)

Holy *** I missed the news today lol

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … a-islands/

Thanks devs for listening!

Go to forum: Balancing

67 Topic by Sundial

(1 replies, posted in Balancing)

In order to have long term appeal in a number of its systems, perpetuum needs to have players risking their bots to the posibility of destruction. Before you read this thread, consider the fact that just because there is a low population doesn't mean we can't at least try to make the games systems function well for current and future populations. Lets keep the population argument out of this.

When players don't risk things there are a number of serious side effects that manifest over time, lets go down the list.

1. Miners and industrialists have no purpose besides to be bean counters watching numbers go up (not their NIC, their hanger numbers). There wont be as much market games or competition without people taking risks and bots being destroyed. Buy/sell orders will stagnate, this is very very bad for a game with a player driven economy.

2. People get bored of the same static gameplay and same static rewards over time. Add some risk and reward into the equation can create interesting player driven dynamic gameplay.

3. Without the possibility of loss in everyday gameplay PvP will suffer greatly. When people are not taking risks in the gameworld there are no targets for people looking for PvP. This means there can never be any sort of potential escalations like happened early on in the game. Enter island, look for targets, maybe kill something, get chased off and maybe killed, etc. This is interesting player driven gameplay.

Now you may be convinced that Perpetuum already has plenty of risk. You are right, it already has plenty of "All or nothing" type risk. This is a type of risk that doesn't affect everyday gameplay most of the time. For example, the possibility of a gamma base being destroyed. While this type of risk is needed to, there needs to be more than just this type of risk or everyday gameplay will suffer for all the reasons above. Perpetuum has enough of this type of risk already via Gamma base destruction and Beta outpost lockout. What we need more of is everday risk. Neither type of risk can totally replace eachother or you wind up with the current situation.

There needs to be a ballance between those taking risks and those attempting to capitalize on said risk taking. Neither side should be given features that completely negate a certain type of risk. Give us tools to mitigate, not completely eradicate said risk and we will see interesting gameplay develop around it.

Bring back the everyday risk to perpetuum!

EDIT:

Added a counter argument for "all or nothing" type risk replacing "everyday" risk.

Go to forum: Balancing

68 Reply by Sundial

(95 replies, posted in General discussion)

Martha Stuart wrote:
Sundial wrote:

remember Kentagura, never forget.

for the sake of the devils advocate, I would like to point out that once they changed the system, all the people who invested heavily in it got screwed and it caused a Corp to leave the game.  So the question is were we better off then as opposed to now?  These new changes that everyone is purposing only effect our alliance because no one outside of it has a gamma base. 

Remember Kentagura indeed, but also remember that once you drastically change a system that one side has invested billions of nic in, someone will always end up getting the s**t end of the stick.

Very true, but we have already been here before remember? Changes have been made to gamma restrictions already without a full wipe like Merkle suggests. Granted Gamma at the time was not as built up as it is now.

I think if gamma is not changed there wont be much interesting gameplay evolving around it besides the once in the blue moon there is a siege even if siege bots are added. But even then all gamma will be is building and completely kicking over sandcastles with no middle ground for any interesting dynamics. Maybe with more population we will get more people on the betas but regardless mining has been nerfed into an activity with no option for danger. I would like to see dangerous lucrative mining come back in one form or another.

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69 Reply by Sundial

(19 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

Yeah, this would be great Chemist (I assume you are talking about an EVE like contract system).

It would also be awesome for trading between accounts/chars, no need to risk putting your stuff in a public corp storage folder and hoping you don't get jacked.

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70 Reply by Sundial

(95 replies, posted in General discussion)

After looking at some different sizes I like a 2-2.5K range. Maybe 2.5K base radius and 2.5K distance between bases, still 3K distance on teleporters. Need some coastline restrictions as well. Still though, some sort of mechanics need to prevent blocking travel from teleport to teleport on certain islands with choke points around the teleporters.

Let us build sandcastles but lets be realistic about the extent which they affect gameplay and economy. Just because something is a huge investment doesn't mean there shouldn't be any kind of balance adjustment done if its for the greater good of the game as a whole. Just imagine if walls were never changed... The end result for gamma is the same really. People still tried to justify unrestricted wall placement after what I saw at Kentagura... remember Kentagura, never forget.

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71 Reply by Sundial

(50 replies, posted in Services and Discussion)

Good corp of good people doing good things for the game smile

Merkle wrote:

If you see me kill me.

I support this product and/or service big_smile

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72 Reply by Sundial

(95 replies, posted in General discussion)

Shadowmine wrote:

The raw materials market isn't exactly overflowing, and as always time is the overriding factor. If producing on gamma means I can spend 25% less time mining due to production bonuses. I don't see how that isn't appealing. But as I said before, resources are not the biggest concern.

Indeed you are right about the resources themselves not being the biggest concern. No matter how resources are balanced if there is not risk taking, death and destruction the details of the resources are irrelevant.

Solution: More death and destruction big_smile

Merkle's proposed changes would help in this area.

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73 Reply by Sundial

(95 replies, posted in General discussion)

With no bots destroyed gamma isn't marketting to anyone but your corp/private storage lol

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74 Reply by Sundial

(95 replies, posted in General discussion)

Shadowmine wrote:

That was kinda the point with colixium actually. You had to go out on gamma and set up mining base and be vulnerable to attack. Look how that worked out. Miners will mine safely when it is at all possible. And setting artificial limits on the amount of ore able to be mined per day or whatever is just gonna make corps wall off multiple islands.

We are attacking this problem from the wrong angle. Trying to force miners to pvp isn't gonna fix anything.

The complete walling off of islands goes back to Merkles original point. Also that brings up other controversial points: entities can potentially wall off the entire of gamma and use spark teleport to control each point as it comes under attack / use via proximity probes.

Miners did use to take risks for epriton (even before walls and completely solo). I was one of them. People lost bots all the time if they slacked off. It was a good system though as you could make so much money it didn't matter if you lost a termis and even potentially rivalers. Some miners such as myself miss being able to take risks in exchange for increased reward.

EDIT:

The goal ins't to force miners to take risks, the goal is to provide the option for increased rewards to get people active and out into the gameworld outside of safety for everyday gameplay. Bots need to be destroyed or the economy of this game CANT work.

If bots only die during gamma seiges that happen very seldom even when the game has a population, we are in big trouble.

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75 Reply by Sundial

(95 replies, posted in General discussion)

Celebro wrote:
Ville wrote:

The way you limit multiple corps living on one island is limit the amount of resources available.


Let me make it clear ore will always remain unlimited if not the game ends. What Ville is trying to say is allow a 'Cooldown' between mining sessions so you can only, lets say, 100m per week of epriton max/island as an example, if you need more than that, then u need to mine somewhere else or buy.

I think we need a need type of highly desireable recource that once depleted moves to other islands and only so many patches of it can exist at one time. It should also take time to regenerate and only very rarely could be found in medium to large ammounts. It should be crucial for construction of new desirable types of bots. It could even be a plant or something in Nia's waters that could be acquired with a new type of gathering.

That would get people off their islands and ninja gatherers taking potential risks for a very lucrative reward. Of course you could drop a terminal right on it too lol. If it was done right though only the big patches of it would be worth deploying a temporary base for.

One problem we will run into here however is the fact that to travel anywhere you need an abbundance of teleport beacons and even beyond that fact is the current gamma residents will see you jump in and out with proximity probes and have time to potentially drop / logonski you. Gate camps anyone lol. This goes back to the flow of gamma islands that Merkle talked about.

We could potentially see smaller entities make deep gamma base deployments where they roam from island to island looking for this valuable substance. It would be targets for the PvPers and huge profits for the people taking risks.

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