Absolutely. And the patch definitely added some conflict- I think it made many PVPers happy, and will continue do so for a while.

I think that you are right about scarcer resources testing the bonds of an alliance; perhaps it will turn out that way. Unfortunately it appears that there will be a race between dwindling resources and a shrinking player base, so the lack of resources may ultimately not be felt at all.

Also, I have to disagree with you that adding new content will cause players to return: the game is simply moving in a direction that will have a minimal attraction to PvE players.

I think it's headed there already. Lately, every time I log in, some industry guy is leaving, and plenty of the players I know have told me that they'll let their subscription run out.

I can't say I blame them- there's nothing wrong with the last patch, it just makes the direction of the game a lot clearer. Just as Annihilator mentions, there's no political system, no changes to the market, nothing at all that would have held an industrialist's interest or balanced the recent changes. What's happening now is the realization that a lot of us had ideas about the game that the devs have no intention of pursuing.

On the plus side, the PvPers get more action, so they'll stick around, right? The game won't die, it will just solidify around a small group of like-minded people.

Take a look at the "What do you expect from PvE" and "PvE v. PvP" threads, and you'll get a rationale for these changes. Imagine that you asked certain PvPers what they wanted most, and you'd get a simple answer: "we want to attack all those miners on Alpha." This patch is a big step towards granting that ability.

There was no imbalance with kernels- the 'imbalance' was that not enough PvE players were presenting themselves as targets. Now, industry-oriented players have a limited set of choices: if they want to make high-level stuff, they will need to join a Beta corp or make some sort of arrangement for protection; if they don't want to do that, they will have to spend EP to gear up for defense; if they don't want to do that, they must accept an effective cap on what they can reliably produce; if they don't want to do that, they can find another game.

There are many who share that sentiment- I wonder how long it will last?

Yes, that's the answer customers always love to hear: you need to spend more.

I think that the OP's question might be an indication of a larger issue: what's the use of an industrial character? A lot are feeling put out by this patch; it seems they are being forced into combat roles or joining a Beta corp.

Well, I'd rather have it in the clouds than up my A$$ like yours...

Now pay attention to Annihilator: he's better at comprehending things than you are.

- back on topic -

PvE still has some meaning, just less than before. A lot of industrial players will have to learn to operate under the protection of a corp, and probably spend more EP than they intended in order to fulfill the roles described above. But it's still an option.

Yes, it's rather disappointing to me. Don't get me wrong- there's nothing bad about a PvP focused game, obviously there are many people who will enjoy it. But there are many who wanted something more- I've already seen several people declaring that it's time to find another game- a bit dramatic and premature, but increasingly becoming the only remaining option.

You're right that the this direction might be a problem in the long run, mainly because the resulting game lacks depth. Changes like this make PvP fun again for a little while, but eventually it becomes repetitive again.

Of course, maybe we've had our head in the clouds- we need to realize that the dev team may simply be too small to handle the kind of complexity we've been calling for- a small, stable population of happy PvPers may be exactly the goal they have in mind.

+1 good idea- all bots could stand to be a little faster.

This is another nice idea- but rather than giving income directly to the corp, how about extending their credit, giving them a bonus on harvested resources, or something else that's not so direct?

The problem I see with direct income, instead of additional resources, or extended credit, is that it can lead to an insurmountable advantage- if a corp holds key points long enough, it would gain huge amounts of money, potentially enough to keep them supplied indefinitely- the loss of a few heavy mechs wouldn't mean much.

Instead, give them a larger credit pool, which would allow them to purchase more, but would also require them to re-invest in their holdings. Or additional resources, which they could sell or use to build more. The point is that whatever advantage they receive, it must be returned to the infrastructure (the market) in order to be useful.

The current economy doesn't accurately reflect the cost of being a corporation- large, successful corporations have tremendous power, but they must expend a lot of resources to maintain them.

This is an excellent idea. I'd go a little further, and have the mine/geyser/crop yield a rare element that is unique to the Beta islands.

Purgatory makes some excellent points.

However, while the current system makes the Betas off-limits to non-aligned players, it's not a serious problem: epitron flows cheaply these days. It could be much harder, but the alliances seem unable to figure out how to make it so- which is fine by me

You're right in pointing out that part of the issue is limited access: adding several more access points would lead to a lot more combat- and might be enough to lure more non-aligned players and corps to the islands. Maybe a land bridge, maybe more teleporters, what provides the access is not as important as the fact that additional access is provided.

I think that making Beta ownership more meaningful- through access to unique resources, or player-built structures, etc.- will also help. Even PvPers, bloodthirsty curs that they are, occasionally need a reason to fight. Adding more Beta-only resources would also encourage more non-aligned players and corps to consider a visit.

Arkhes and assignments.

Even more free stuff if you're in a large corp.

Another draft would be interesting, but unless you're doing it for the intellectual exercise, I wouldn't bother: seems to me that the devs are aiming to make this a PvP combat game, and nothing more.

I think that something else needs to be considered as well: we may be asking too much of the game and the developers. which may be impractical or even impossible. Moreover, they may have nothing to do with Avatar's vision of the game.

For politics, economics, or a stock market to work, it would be necessary to rework a large portion of the game's systems so that resources, items, and territory have real value. Political and economic power only have meaning if the unlimited resources, free bots, and free money go away.

In other words, those systems require risk, and right now the game has none.