Weed: "more combat" adds neither depth nor complexity, just more combat.

For more depth, there would be alternative methods- political, economic- of hurting your foe.

For more complexity, you would have to make additional considerations before opening fire on someone: how would it affect your credit rating/alliance/income/relations?

Red's idea of a third zone is a great idea. For that matter, so is PvP on Alpha if real risks are introduced.

Could someone please explain to me how, in a game with unlimited resources, free bots, and free cash, there is "risk" in PvP?

Oh yeah, I remember him! That was funny a couple of years ago.

I'm sorry that you're only capable of thinking of me as a troll; I really am. My point was not to get a reaction from you, but I obviously overestimated. Again, I apologize.

Yes, I take this as an indication of where the game is headed. It's disappointing news as far as I'm concerned- however, if you can't get your fill of combat, then it's good news for you.

Sorry Annihilator, I wasn't looking for such a reaction.

You're right, the mining game is boring, and so is npc farming. The game is pretty one-dimensional, and that means it gets old quickly.

If you actually view the world with the attitude that I must be afraid of combat simply because I would prefer other things, then what a frustrated young man you must be!

It is clear that when you say "out of reach," you mean that you do not comprehend the direction I would prefer to see the game follow. I'm sorry that makes you angry.

Just for the sake of clarity: what you call an "attitude" is disappointment that the game appears to be going in the direction that EVE went. A "sandbox" should have a rich and complex universe- there should be multiple paths to follow- combat, economic, political, research, industry, etc. There's no reason Perpetuum couldn't have that.

This game has always suffered from comparison to EVE; unfortunately, while the developers could have followed many distinctive directions, it appears that they are rushing to make a clone. EVE is a game for half-wits with spreadsheets; it is very one-dimensional. I'm disappointed that Perpetuum is going in the same direction, I had hopes that it could be more.

Honestly, to me it's rather obvious: the rather heavy-handed editing, the extremely narrow definition of "PvE" as "Player combats NPC," the uncreative view that "content" is equivalent to "fighting things"- it really should be retitled to "Where else can we add combat?"

Roaming squads? Depends on how they're implemented, but a great way to cut back on industrial-only type players and corps.

The plant seedings are ok, i guess, but seem like a half-hearted attempt at introducing "strategy" into the mix, or just another reason to PvP- water or no, somebody has to protect the garden.

Random spawns? Just like the roaming squads, a great way to force industrial types to spend more time in combat or leave the game.

Interesting, a lot less clutter.

Fewer players, or are the big corps absorbing the small ones?

I never said they did: please reread. What I wrote was that adding PvP to the Alphas will not solve the problem of spawn camping.

Nice try, but no. Or did you forget that they get free robots? If you have 80K EP in combat extensions, it doesn't matter if you're in an Arkhe or a mech: you'll have no trouble camping spawns.

I think you need to look up "force"- people are already playing this way, but there's an imbalance between combat and non-combat characters. I'm only suggesting that the rewards be commensurate.

So, if I spend 50,000 EP on combat extensions, and 5000 EP on industry and harvesting, I'm not combat specialized? If you really believe this, you're splitting hairs.

Yes, I advocate this for high-level gear, but not basic items.

This is already true.

At no time did I ever write this.

This is called reductio ad absurdem, and a really poor move on your part. I never wrote such a thing, and you look like a fool for claiming it.

Exactly like the real world, isn't it? If you specialize, then you can go much further in your chosen field. If you don't specialize, you can do many more things, but none of them as well as a specialist.

Now, please try rereading, and notice I make two points:

1. Half of this is already in-game: industrialist are unable to use the gear necessary to farm high-level NPCs.

2. because only half of this is already in game, combat specialists do not have to rely in any way on industrialists: yes, having them around is very convenient, but never necessary.

3. On the other hand, industrialist characters must rely on combat specialists to provide high-level kernels and items, because they cannot gather them.

You continue to say this, but it's not an issue. The latest NPCs are quite a handful, and there's plenty of PvP going on already. To say that there's not enough destruction is simply wrong.

If you reduce the rewards from assignments, and increase the drops from both NPC bots and tech, then there will be quite a bit of player interaction, all of it meaningful, just not combat.

From this perspective, you are right- almost anything you do is some form of competition with another player.

That's not a bad thing in any way- it's what games are all about. But I think what is bothering people here is really two things:

First, of the three playstyles we've been discussing, there are really only two types: combat-specialized players (either PvP or PvE) and industry-specialized players (builders, miners, researchers).

The problem is that one has a clear advantage. That is, the combat-specialized player can do what the others do, but the others cannot do what the combat player does. Consider:

• as well as being able to engage in combat and harvest high-level kernels, a combat-specialized character can harvest any resource, and may also manufacture or research pretty much anything.

• industry-specialized characters cannot combat high-level mechs, nor can they be very effective in PvP combat. But in order to improve their trade, they must have the items and kernels that can only come from combat specialists.

As a result, there is a one-sided dependence: combat specialists do not depend on industrial characters, but industrialists must depend on combat specialists: industrial players are completely unnecessary to the game dynamic.

The other issue is that several people have said that the solution to the "problem" is to allow PvP on the alpha islands. This is simply incorrect, because a) the "problem" has nothing to do with the "risks" or "challenges" that industrial characters face, and b) it is a solution that forces combat on non-combat oriented players, which effectively puts them at an even greater disadvantage.

Wraithbane is correct, but a few people are incapable or unwilling to listen: those who most forcefully desire to allow PvP in the Alpha islands are those who want to ruin the game for other people.

• Adding PvP to the Alphas has nothing to do with 'immersion,' for as I pointed out in a different post, it makes more sense that the Alphas would be combat-free.

• Adding PvP to the Alphas is a combat-oriented "solution" to a non-combat problem.

The solution to the imbalance is not to provide more combat; it is to provide other forms of competition.

Ok, if allowing combat-specialized players to attack my defenseless mining bot is acceptable, then, in the interest of fairness, shouldn't I be allowed to attack them in my chosen arena?

In other words, what do you propose I should be able to do to them economically or politically?

Wow, maaan, harsh, duude. If you honestly believe that the discussion these last few days has only been about NPC bots, if your impotent rage is such that you're able to ignore pages of posts in order to take a cheap shot at me, then I shall go to sleep soundly tonight, content in the knowledge that your seed will provide another generation of people to dig ditches and serve fried chicken to my grandchildren.