Topic: Insurance action

There are probably going to be a lot of threads that want to discuss this, so here's a thread to throw your stuff at and keep the number of side threads to a minimum.

2 (edited by Speedy Gonzalez 2011-02-13 14:55:38)

Re: Insurance action

Instead of admiting fact that Developers *** up with Insurace system, they put blame on corporations and people. Even worse, pointing fingers. "we wiped 1 billion nic" is big bullshit as well. They didn't wipe just insurance cash, they wiped everything, nic from sales, nic from assignments, nic from donations. And that's way more than 1 billion nic.

Blaming players about own *** ups is weak. Simple as that. You as company just lost a lot of credibility and trust.

Re: Insurance action

Well, maybe they could have fixed it sooner, but really it's like this. If there's a major exploit and people exploit it then yes the devs *** up, but anyone who exploited it usually gets punished. Many companies simply ban exploiters if the exploit is considered major.

4 (edited by Speedy Gonzalez 2011-02-13 15:46:33)

Re: Insurance action

Problem is not the nic. Problem is how they did it. After problem being mentioned months ago, they didn't manage to fix it for 2-3 months and now they "fixed" it with 0 research. Here's a good example how skillfuly it was managed:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242 … Insure.jpg

Hi gusy, u has 0 nic in vallet. Yeah you did some assignments but who cares, we'll take that money too. (Do note that majority of cash was not held in corp vallet but on chars. Those got wiped too. With 100s of million of nic gained both from insurance and from trade.

5 (edited by The Overdog 2011-02-13 15:21:14)

Re: Insurance action

So I am curious if this action was warranted because enough people cried about it and then the devs realized their computations were not compensating for the global moving average market prices of two weeks or if it is documented somewhere that insurance fraud is against the rules.

If it was the former then I am completely ok with it but if corps are being penalized for a Dev oversight then I don’t think that is right now matter how it has affected the economy.  I understand that mistakes can happen like this but it looks more like peer pressure than admitting a mistake and moving on.

So for example...lets say that they realize that the hit dispersion and damage calculated from skills for Medium EM Guns were 30% too high and as a result pilots employing these guns were too effective in combat are they going to refund the victims of those Kains the bots they lost? 

Where will this kind of retroactive compensation end?  I am all for balance in these games but everyone knows "insurance fraud" has been going on here for a long time now.

Re: Insurance action

@Speedy
That picture proves nothing. The devs said they removed the money which was made from insurance fraud, they somehow calculated it. ofc they remove the money from missions if you spent the insurance money on buying resources or using for construction etc.

7 (edited by Speedy Gonzalez 2011-02-13 15:41:09)

Re: Insurance action

Seridur wrote:

@Speedy
That picture proves nothing. The devs said they removed the money which was made from insurance fraud, they somehow calculated it. ofc they remove the money from missions if you spent the insurance money on buying resources or using for construction etc.

Must be the reason why suddenly our corp has 0 nic. Across all the bank chars. After 3 months of producing, trading, assignment running and obviously insurance fraud. Yes, we made 0 nic in 3 months. Interesting math.

EDIT: ohh my god, just read again through blog post:

We considered many options on how we should go about this, but in the end we opted for counting the robots that were used in these operations, checked the actual insurance payouts they received for blowing them up, and then calculated the real average market prices that the payouts should have been in the first place. The difference of these two values is the falsely gained money, their "profit". This is what we had to take away.

Why so much lie? hahaha. All you did was check who got insurance NIC and just wiped those accounts to 0 NIC.

8 (edited by The Overdog 2011-02-13 15:48:02)

Re: Insurance action

*Edit*  I just went back and read the blog again and they "claim" they only removed the difference between the fair market value at the time and what was refuned but I am doubtful that is what happened.

Re: Insurance action

Seridur wrote:

@Speedy
That picture proves nothing. The devs said they removed the money which was made from insurance fraud, they somehow calculated it. ofc they remove the money from missions if you spent the insurance money on buying resources or using for construction etc.

They also said they removed 1 billion nic, and it was more then that on single characters.

10 (edited by Seridur 2011-02-13 15:50:42)

Re: Insurance action

Now your words against the devs'. Which side has proof? big_smile 
I hope the devs don't try to tell misinformation in matters like this, they could only lose with that and could gain nothing.
If they think wiping the involved person's accounts is a fair punishment then do and say so. I'd not argue about that big_smile

11 (edited by Speedy Gonzalez 2011-02-13 15:55:12)

Re: Insurance action

Seridur wrote:

Now your words against the devs'. Which side has proof? big_smile 
I hope the devs don't try to tell misinformation in matters like this, they could only lose with that and could gain nothing.
If they think wiping the involved person's accounts is a fair punishment then do and say so. I'd not argue about that big_smile

How about fact that YESTERDAY, lots of mechs went missing from our corp storages? Ohh, devs forgot to post they removed mechs/bots from corps, not just nic (PROFIT LOL) in their blog?

This is getting more and more hillarious.

Re: Insurance action

Oh the tears!  Bottom line is that if you hadn't cheated you wouldn't be crying now.

Re: Insurance action

Pretty poor that people have to exploit to enjoy a game, or get an edge on their competitors.

14 (edited by Speedy Gonzalez 2011-02-13 16:05:22)

Re: Insurance action

Mara Kaid wrote:

Pretty poor that people have to exploit to enjoy a game, or get an edge on their competitors.

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/post/13631/#p13631

Pretty poor that devs don't manage to fix this simple *** for months. Then do it wrong way and lie to everyone blatantly.

Re: Insurance action

In the pasts months you quote people knew about it, this is true.
However majority CHOSE to not exploit it .
You CHOSE to exploit it to gain an unfair advantage in the game.

If there had been no punishment you would not be crying just accept the punishment for your wrong doing and move on you cannot justify it however you try to spin it.

16 (edited by DTC 2011-02-13 16:28:20)

Re: Insurance action

I'm really surprised seeing people who exploited the game for months (and obviously knew about it) and now complain about being punished. Incredible ! In most games, u'd have been banned.

U should just shut up and be happy u can still play with ur current char imo neutral

Re: Insurance action

I just bought a 90-day sub to support that change.
Wonderful!

Good job devs!

18 (edited by Speedy Gonzalez 2011-02-13 16:29:21)

Re: Insurance action

Ghorasia wrote:

In the pasts months you quote people knew about it, this is true.
However majority CHOSE to not exploit it .
You CHOSE to exploit it to gain an unfair advantage in the game.

If there had been no punishment you would not be crying just accept the punishment for your wrong doing and move on you cannot justify it however you try to spin it.

I would have congratulated devs if they fixed the issue 1-2 months ago with a statement "sorry, we messed up insurance system and to solve the possible issues we'll have to remove nic which was obtained from it". But sitting on your bums for months doing nothing, then wiping pretty much randomly accounts to 0 nic. Deleting contents of t4 corp storages without saying anything and putting blame on players while pretending to be white knights on their blog? No, that's not the thing I'm going to support.

Btw, that post which I linked was made 1 month ago. And Saha is one of my chars.

19 (edited by DTC 2011-02-13 16:46:15)

Re: Insurance action

Speedy Gonzalez wrote:
Ghorasia wrote:

In the pasts months you quote people knew about it, this is true.
However majority CHOSE to not exploit it .
You CHOSE to exploit it to gain an unfair advantage in the game.

If there had been no punishment you would not be crying just accept the punishment for your wrong doing and move on you cannot justify it however you try to spin it.

I would have congratulated devs if they fixed the issue 1-2 months ago with a statement "sorry, we messed up insurance system and to solve the possible issues we'll have to remove nic which was obtained from it". But sitting on your bums for months doing nothing, then wiping pretty much randomly accounts to 0 nic. Deleting contents of t4 corp storages without saying anything and putting blame on players while pretending to be white knights on their blog? No, that's not the thing I'm going to support.

Btw, that post which I linked was made 1 month ago. And Saha is one of my chars.

I'm happy that devs are focusing on game development rather than watching at what u are doing. U just did know u souldn't have done that. So why did u so kid ?

You don't stop talking about the punishment. What about talking about what some people do to take an advantage UNFAIRLY over their opponents ??

Re: Insurance action

You cheated and got caught.
/end of story

Re: Insurance action

Mara Kaid wrote:

Pretty poor that people have to exploit to enjoy a game, or get an edge on their competitors.

For the first time ever i agree with miss kaid

*Warhawkz is not responsible for wasted time while reading his posts.

Re: Insurance action

I think this screenshot reveals the extent to which insurance fraud was happening

http://img25.imageshack.us/f/sequeroverload.jpg/

Re: Insurance action

Speedy Gonzalez wrote:

Instead of admiting fact that Developers *** up with Insurace system, they put blame on corporations and people. Even worse, pointing fingers. "we wiped 1 billion nic" is big bullshit as well. They didn't wipe just insurance cash, they wiped everything, nic from sales, nic from assignments, nic from donations. And that's way more than 1 billion nic.

Blaming players about own *** ups is weak. Simple as that. You as company just lost a lot of credibility and trust.

You got caught gaming the system... Insurance exists to indemnify not enrich, you should have known that without having to be told.  Blaming DEV's for your own F-UPs is weak, admins that actually enforce penalties for exploiting are good...

IMO, every major producers considered running an insurance fraud, not all of them followed through.  Having a bit of NIC wiped after exploiting isn't unduly harsh so just take it on the chin and move on.

"You're living in a parallel universe." ~Syndic

Re: Insurance action

lol pwnd.

Re: Insurance action

Smokeyii wrote:

lol pwnd.

lol pwnd.