76

(46 replies, posted in Balancing)

I think zoom will barely change them and they will be as useless most of the other new content

77

(38 replies, posted in General discussion)

Nobody cares. After a certain point ep is useless

It's because mk2 assault and below are so easy to get and so much better they are the standard even for new people. This is why a syndicate robot with rough parity to mk2 would benefit new people - make it a bit more expensive f you want but the token cost requires that people are rewarded for playing the game with useful mechs and assaults.

Step 1 - make them useful.

Zoom If your prepared to listen to ways to make it a useful bot / race then make a thread and ask. Quite often it feels like these forums are a circle jerk between the same old faces but please don't miss this opportunity in the same way you did the balance patch. The first new bots and mechs for years have the potential to bring back some of the thirty thousand people who played before but only if they are useful. Your current plan will make all but a couple of them vanity bots that'll don't get used.

What Leary said. Its a tried and tested method used in Eve, bring back the oldies with shinies and they make the game interesting for the newbies.

DEV Zoom wrote:

If they were meant to go against Mk2s, they would be harder to obtain, more expensive, and would require more extensions, making them out of reach for newbies. Why would we do that?

Because they would get used? Newbies are not as poor as you think, nor are they devoid of skill points any more. What a mk2 equivalent race available from the syndicate shop would do is enable solo and small gang players who don't have the industrial backbone a way of competing.

By all means add a mk2 version if you want to cater to both markets but making them worse than a mk1 assault is not going to make them desirable.

Then you made them to be useless.

Zoom can you develop for the game that actually is,not the game you imagine it should be in your head. Nobody drives mk1 assaults in PvP, it just doesn't happen. Why would you develop something to not have it used? Your just throwing away really good content.

I just don't get why you would release 11 bots that are going to suck compared with mk2. Did you take a vow of poverty? Do you like developing and releasing content that's great but really bad due to balance?

Currently the following are fantastic coding and content rendered useless by awful balancing:

Tap beacons
Squad missions
Artifacting
Gamma ownership
Black heavies
T4+
Requisition slips

Do you want syndicate robots adding to that list? Wake up! They need to be AS GOOD as mk2, it would be better if they were BETTER. everyone would want and use them, people would be interested in the game because of this and population rises.

How many people are going to return for an assault / mech / heavy that's considerably worse than what people use as standard.

Jesus if ypu actually balanced the above list properly do you know how much more fun the game would be? <wipes foam from mouth>

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!

82

(5 replies, posted in Q & A)

I did look at medium firearms on all assaults - remember that with those two extra low slots you have the ability to add a reactor and still have a low spare. Arbalast out damaged all, you get the same spread. From a speed perspective you still have the same demob problem.

There is no situation that a demob fitted assault will lose to a demob fitted locust.

As for the waspish, its not really comparable but considering it can two to three shot a locust while shield tanking all damage its really not worth the comparison.

83

(5 replies, posted in Q & A)

Devs, what do you envisage the role being?

Vs Assaults

Lets do a basic look at the DPS of the three gun assaults. All comparisons are made using 5 small guns, no tunings, non range based PvP ammo and max skills (no nexus).

Locust 132.5 dps
Arbalast mk2 133.5 dps
Baphomet 126 dps

As you can see the Baph comes out with the lowest DPS, the Locust mid and the Arb the highest. This becomes more pronounced when the arb switches to Magnadart ammo when the Arbalast does 154 DPS while still doing more range than the Locust. Its also worth noting that the Baphomet has an extra head slot. If you put a tuning in that it gets 146 dps.

So then if all assaults start with the same number of head slots and use PvP ammo that does the most damage you get the following:

Locust 132.5
Arbalast 154
Baphomet 146.5

All other assaults can hit the Locust for full damage despite the dispersion bonus.

So what other areas are of concern?

1) Range - in an assault vs assault fight the Lotust has the shortest range. This is compounded by problem 2
2) Low slots - the Locust has a massive two low slot disadvantage. This makes it impossible to tank without bieng very demob vulnerable
3) Speed - a standard demob resistant Arbalast and baphomet will still do over 100 while remaining 20% or more resistant to demobs. A frame fit Locust however can only reach 110 with -25% demob resistance. It doesn't have the low slots to get resistant. One demob is going to give the other assaults a speed advantage.

Bottom line is vs other assaults it does less damage, at a shorter range and under a single demob cannot get close enough to put that damage on. It does this with two less low slots for tank. It is possible to fit a decent shield tank that will take a lot of deeps but that means you cant shoot back, your moving in the 80's and you still cant get close enough to kill your enemy.

Vs Mechs and heavies

So this is where the dispersion may shine. Lets Anni discussed this in a different thread but the best case scenario vs a max skilled player is you will take 10% of the damage. but this is against disadvantages such as:

1) your tank is MUCH lower
2) green mechs will hit you every time
3) your still so demob vulnerable all mechs can demob you and maintain a range you cant shoot back
4) your dps it much less

But lets say you have found that one noob who doesn't have great dispersion. Your actually killing him! Its taking forever but this is the most erect you have been since playing perpetuum!

What do you think is going to happen to you at 35m from the mech or heavy when it dies? You are going to get boned by explosion damage. Every. Damn. Time.

tl,dr: for assaults: Underpowered, under tanked and unable to get close enough to shoot vs anyone with a demob. For mechs: you have no chance to kill them but will die to explosion damage if you do

What is their role Zoom?

84

(9 replies, posted in Bugs)

Annihilator wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:
Jita wrote:

Basically Zoom nerfed mission payout by a factor of ten. While keeping the prices of token store items the same.

a.k.a. mission payouts were ten times more than intended for a single player.

and now doing a mission in a squad alone rewards you with only a fraction of what you could get if you had left the squad.

instead of fixing your mission templates, you f*cked up the reward system again. The only thing that was wrong, has been with missions that didn't really scale in difficulty
(like combat missions on beta beeing the reincarnation of 100-beacons popcorn farming, infinite grindable harvest missions)

Now in a solo level 5 mission you might have the difficult task of facing an arkhe. Its ***

85

(9 replies, posted in Bugs)

Basically Zoom nerfed mission payout by a factor of ten. While keeping the prices of token store items the same.

It was awesome.

86

(46 replies, posted in Balancing)

I've said before that there should be an energy modifier to demobs so a small thing demobilizing a big thing would run out of energy quickly. Its so stupid that an unbonused light can demob a heavy with negligible drain.

87

(46 replies, posted in Balancing)

Actually Anni I think this is the first race where a frame is not obligatory. When I look at the assault I don't see a frame being useful really, it just makes you too vulnerable to demob.

The problem is if you want the assault bonus to matter it needs to be a lot stronger. I would prefer the bonus is increased rather than more slots added.

I would also like to see heavies get nerfed in their hit dispersion.

None of that will matter vs a gropho who will one shot you

88

(46 replies, posted in Balancing)

Its a bit underwhelming so far, I think they are trying to balance vs the t1 variants which will doom them to uselessness.

They should follow the Eve model of making them awesome, too good and overused before nerfing them in to oblivion.

89

(46 replies, posted in Balancing)

Perpetuum wrote:

Yes little one if it keeps its current detection it must be slow.  Having the entire race being the slowest AND giving it the current shortest optimal ranges (75 M T1 Smalls, 125M T1 Shorts, 200M T1 Longs) just blows my mind.  On-top of all of this you give it shields to the one of the fastest weapon groupings.

This is clearly "ment" to be thee detection bot.  In doing so it made the Assault nearly useless DPS, speed, range, tank, just about all around. 

This is all coming around to from my small picture that I am seeing, maybe Zoom has a grander master plan.  Currently I am not liking the direction, as these bots add nothing meaning full to the game, and if they do.  Only that one faction will have it, making them the goto faction to get.

This is why I suggested we just make them a normal race, and spread the specializations around to ALL the colors to be inclusive, not exclusive to one bot race.

Example : Light Scout
Red Lights - Prom - Specialization - +3 Detection Per Level
Blue Lights - Yagel - - Specialization - +3 Detection Per Level
Green Lights- Castel -- Specialization - +3 Detection Per Level
Yellow Lights - Vektor - - Specialization - +3 Detection Per Level

Add different names, keep them all Mk1s OR do a Mk1.5.  Paper thin, Medium speeds, and bad masking.  Strip off all the other Detection multipliers off all the other lights, the cost to make one is a base Light bot X2, or by some multiplier.

Now you have the indy side figured out, do this for all the specialized bots you want.

Support Bots
Red - Specializes Remote Sensor, Secondary Remote Reps.
Blue - Specializes Remote Reps, Secondary, Remote Energy
Green - Specializes Remote Energy, Secondary Remote ECCM
Yellow - Specializes Remote ECCM, Secondary Remote Sensor

Light Marksman Bots
Specializes in using Medium Weapons on a Light bot Platform, Higher Range, Slightly lower speed, Lower detection, Higher Locking, Decreased ROF
Red - Lasers, Each Lvl Decreased Fitting requirements for Medium Weapons.
Blue - Mags, "
Green - Missles, "
Yellow - Bullets, "

Same Deal, these are Mk1 bots only (for now) and has the same slot configurations.

Did you trip and hit your little head this morning sweetheart?

There is nothing wrong with the light. The assault is a little under powered and needs another low so it can fit an evasive with some kind of tank. Either that or make the hit size bonus stronger.

90

(46 replies, posted in Balancing)

Perpetuum wrote:

I would say scrap its detection bonus, give it speed.   Make a Mk2 bots have specializations.

That's because you have no brain. The whole race is slow, the detection bonus makes it still usable.

i don't think there is anything wrong with its bonus. I think its drawbacks make it weak however and an extra low slot would fix that.

The trouble is its probably relatively balanced vs mk1 assaults but it will never fight mk1 assaults. If the intent was to never make mk2 syndicate bots then it needs a buff to compete.

If heavies had an evasion penalty it might matter more

it would be nice to see more specialisation for this class in to shields. Perhaps an energy transfer bonus too?

94

(46 replies, posted in Balancing)

its slower than something else but it also has a signal detection bonus. This means you have time to see them and then stay out of range unless they are full speed straight at you which is everything in signal detection.

I absolutely agree that a mix of demobaliser strength and range is what is needed. Its ht eonly ewar that has no love and would make these useful. It would also fit nicely along their slow speed and signal detection / masking bonus'

96

(46 replies, posted in Balancing)

lets be realistic, the only thing it will ever fit is a frame and a signal detector with perhaps a shield. Whats that comparison?

97

(27 replies, posted in News and information)

What I would like to see is a racial bonus which reduced ROF by 75% and increased damage by 400%. This would make them glass cannons, give them a use in a pack and make shield fits viable.

A long time ago you could go farming for minerals. It was possible to run Corp production just from recycled stuff and you would farm different stuff for different minerals. At this time one corp had complete control of beta and epriton and prices of good were high. I worked out you could recycle universal plates and get epriton based commodities cheaper than the market price and started flooding the market with goods.

This of course upset said corps who pushed for a nerf. Salvaging got hit hard with the nerf stick and became virtually useless. So much so that they had to introduce plasma.

Since then the mineral market has been dead and the module market equally so as people have more nic than minerals.

It was a bad change then and I fought it (and like all my other fights lost) and its still a bad change. The old recycling capped mineral prices, made alpha production for small corps viable and gave a lively mineral and module market. It also prevented the nic inflation problems plasma creates and created a valuable nic sink for repair - another good reason for station ownership.

99

(27 replies, posted in News and information)

That thing is a deathtrap without a shield and gang. Even then your so easily demobed to 0 its pointless.

Open beta 2016!