Need to do a lot more testing.......

While I want gamma back ASAP.

But I have to agree more time is needed to get this right this time. I know you are looking at doing a push to production and then 4 days later opening up gamma.

But I am wondering if this is the best move. I think more testing needs to be done with all the islands and other updates on the test server.

Stress testing needs to be done with the speed change and everything needs to be on the test server before going to production.

IMHO.

I use to log on to find 15 ppl in GC. So yeah more ppl right now than when STC controlled everything. But non-the-less let's hope the game pop grows.

79

(3 replies, posted in Testing server)

YES! +1

SmokeyIndustries wrote:

Maybe Gremrod should come up with a way to purchase the game from AC.

lol, no.

Cassius wrote:

There is a fundamental flaw with making the game world bigger so one entity cannot control it. It's not the size of the world but the number of players. STC ruled a 36 island game with 10 people and 30~ people online total, average, for 2 years. The size of the world, or SpT made no difference. It was the number of people playing. CIR/77 own what they own because there is not enough opposition, not because of the game world or SpT in its current form.

Alpha needs to be a viable area with enough content and resources for the constant new players to learn the game and establish a basic foothold of wealth and resources. Only then will this game start retaining its new growth and actually expand. Forget about making changes based on the population over the last 3 years.

Yes. I will agree that game population allows for certain things to happen or not happen. But it appears there are more people currently playing then during the STC time and a single entity controls everything right now. The world is about to grow a bit bigger and we will see if the game population grows with it this time or disappears again.

There is no fundamental flaw with making the game world bigger. If this is true then gamma under that logic would only serve to allow one entity to control the game. But the devs will be putting it into the game again and I don't think it is there plan to have one entity rule all of it. Well unless the game population dies and no one is left to fight that entity for control....

Celebro wrote:

Your road map seems reasonable but I doubt they have the ability for keeping to a road map for 6 months, even less so for more than a year. After the gamma 2.0 release there would need some bug fixing that could take up some time too, so I think it would be hard to say.

I don't see any reason why any development team can't keep to some type of a road map for six months or longer.

Bug fixing should be done during all development efforts.

We have a product we develop that is on sprint 33. 30 of those sprints have been 4 week sprints 3 have been 2 week sprints. Almost 2.5 years of features being produced monthly with bug fixes at the same time.

This process allows you too keep producing small, medium and large features along with bug fixing. smile Works rather well.

Celebro wrote:

Whatever road map they follow they need to speed development somehow that would be the first priority for me.

If hiring more developers is not an option. The best approach is to identify the features with the best game value and can also be done quickly.

You keep adding in small changes where you can in 2 to 4 week sprints. Some things can't be done in 2 to 4 week sprints so those you are working on in an ongoing sprints/iterations. All the time you have smaller 2 and 4 week sprints producing content, features, changes etc.

No going silent for six months. This allows you to keep in contact with the community and keep producing smaller features every 2 to 4 weeks and also working on the bigger stuff keeping the community up to speed on those developments at the same time.

This is what we do currently at my work. I have been a Scrum master, Product Manager, developer, and QA on the same project(s).

Nexonic wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

and what if you are the one and only coder that has to do the stuff on that roadmap alone?

That should only influence how much gets put on the roadmap. To me Gremrod's comment is about the development process, not the amount of development.

Correct.

Celebro wrote:

Gremrod: Yes true, attackers can bring a blob too but they don't know set times either so, if you are not actively living or roaming said island then you won't know when to attack but remember to balance the attackers disadvantage stability will not increase unless SAPs are at least, 'tapped' by defender to show presence and to defend if need be.

This gives great advantage to defender, only if they are living there.

I think you have one of the better simple ideas at this point. Removal of the SAP scanning times.

But I am still in favor of scaling up the world. Make it bigger than one entity's ability to control everything.....

Burial wrote:

Unlocking outposts would still do the most good for the game.

I am still not sold that it would.

NPC terminals are unlocked on three beta islands.

I would create a road map for the year and one that would continue on beyond the one year control.

I would produce monthly blogs about the road map.

I would create surveys for the community on features wanted and needed.

I would set priorities on those features that have the best return and could be done quickly.

I could and would turn this game around.

Celebro wrote:
Gremrod wrote:
Gremrod wrote:

Well, but wouldn't that still fall under your statement: "You need like 7-8 successful attacks to get outpost and the last 2 attempts will get it blobbed so what's the point?"

Does your statement change if the SAP times are not known?

You currently have the same chance of not being blobbed.

No, defenders know set times.

But, the aim is to change defenders behaviour that's the one taking all outposts without making it any harder to own a few or 1, that is the issue I have with any leading alliance there is not much to do even if you have 10 outpost.

Because the defenders know the set times has nothing to do with a blob really. The attackers can bring a blob too. So this argument doesn't have merit with me.

I have always said the defender should not be at a disadvantage. The attacker needs to put forth the main/most effort.

I still think the main issue here is the size of the world is too small. More beta islands need to be added.

I like the idea of scaling the world up rather than making a bunch of changes to mechanics.

I would be fully in support of removing the intrusion system and build a new beta siege system.

Gremrod wrote:

Well, but wouldn't that still fall under your statement: "You need like 7-8 successful attacks to get outpost and the last 2 attempts will get it blobbed so what's the point?"

Does your statement change if the SAP times are not known?

Celebro wrote:

Yes: since you know there is a possibility of the SAP not being blobbed.

You currently have the same chance of not being blobbed.

Celebro wrote:
Gremrod wrote:

I think one thing that people are missing here.

Why are people not attacking any of the outpost that are currently under control by a corp/allies other than your corp/allies? I am not talking about a simple lets go hit a couple SAPs. I am talking about a full out plan to attack and keep attacking until the outpost is taken?


You need like 7-8 successful attacks to get outpost and the last 2 attempts will get it blobbed so what's the point?

I think it would be interesting if neither defender or attacker does not know the set SAP times, specially with faster robot speeds easier to roam.

Well, but wouldn't that still fall under your statement: "You need like 7-8 successful attacks to get outpost and the last 2 attempts will get it blobbed so what's the point?"

Does your statement change if the SAP times are not known?

If SAP times are not known will corps start to fight for outposts?

If corps will fight for outpost if SAP times are not know then the change is not making the defender stand around for an hour to get some item etc.

The change would be to leave everything alone and take away SAP time prediction.

Th main point here is if no one wants to attack and fight to take any of the outposts.

I think one thing that people are missing here.

Why are people not attacking any of the outpost that are currently under control by a corp/allies other than your corp/allies? I am not talking about a simple lets go hit a couple SAPs. I am talking about a full out plan to attack and keep attacking until the outpost is taken?

Burial wrote:

Syndic, now you are just complaining about how Intrusion 2.0 mechanics work.

The essence of outpost ownership is the defense of the property. Just as much as the attacker having to go through the effort of attacking island no-one is using, should the defenders go through similar effort of defending island they got no use for. This is the only thing that gets changed.


I disagree. The essence of the outpost ownership is attacking. You must attack to own one. And since you really don't own it seeing how it is a static NPC outpost defending it should be easy in the current control system.

I would agree that outpost ownership is defense of property when it comes to gamma.

Burial wrote:

If the defender really is standing there for 1 hour then everything is fine, right?

I read this and it just yelled at me. You know what it yelled?


BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rex Amelius wrote:
Gremrod wrote:

If they tweak it. I think zoom said he wouldn't mind tweaking so the lockout feature doesn't happen until higher stability then current 50.

As for more tweaks beyond that it is up to them at this point. After gamma is in game I don't think this will be a big issue again for a bit.

Yes I read that and I think that is a useless tweak. It seems more like an attempt to placate the current forum campaign on lockout. It is NOT a solution to the problem ...the problem being easy control of all Beta outpost for whomever is the Dominant Power.

With Active defense requirement (corp only, no allies) and
More severe limitation of Sparks on Beta (if any allowed at all)
Imminent island distance change reducing IZ effectiveness
and return of Gamma as a place to draw some activity away from Beta

We may, may see a more accessible Beta. At least that is the goal. Fully achieving that goal will never come, in my opinion, with out massive increase in island count, but we all know the development time on that given current constraints.

I think the entire issue right now comes down to two main factors.

Development time to get good / new features into the game.
population.


Outposts can be owned by other players/corporations, but no one wants to take the time and resources to fight for the outposts. They just give up or don't even try. They could but they don't. I don't think that is a reason to make changes to current mechanics.

Others issues

vets not having areas to spread out.

But at the same time I do see a need to change the entire intrusion system. Yes they can do some tweaking. I would wait and see what gamma 2.0 brings and hope its better received than intrusion 2.0.

Rex Amelius wrote:
Gremrod wrote:
Rex Amelius wrote:

This. 

As for SAPs I've always considered the auto defense mechanic broken. One of the objectives of Intrusion 2.0 was to encourage active usage of the outpost you own. Despite the time it may take to scan a dozen SAP timer that hardly constitutes a good reason to leave it. We're not supposed to be able to manage so many outposts.   

I like idea of some type of action for Defender to take, such as simply right clicking some panel for few seconds just to register a presence. This would not defend the SAP only activate the points received if no successful attack. A compromise would be to have reduced auto defense points, like 1/5 the current. So if you have an active SAP and no Defender is there to activate the thingy-mcbob, and no one attacks, defender gets 3 points. If defender activates thingy-mcgiggle  a d no successful attack then standard 15 points.

Point is that active presence should mean something.

Oh yeah, also *** kill sparks on Beta (or permit one and only one and only if you own outpost).

I have always consider the current intrusion 2.0 system broken as a whole. That is why I don't think it would be wise to keep making small changes to something that needs to be removed from the game and replaced with a new system.

I agree that in general the whole thing needs a full revamp, but priorities and development time, etc. You know a full revamp is a large endeavor. Though hardly perfect I think we can survive it in it's current form with a few tweaks ...stated above.

If they tweak it. I think zoom said he wouldn't mind tweaking so the lockout feature doesn't happen until higher stability then current 50.

As for more tweaks beyond that it is up to them at this point. After gamma is in game I don't think this will be a big issue again for a bit.

So you want to add more boring assignments to the existing list of boring assignments?

Rex Amelius wrote:
Kaldenines wrote:

I think the problem is not locking itself but that SAP stability goes up when nobody shows up. Imo it should just stay the same when nobody does the SAP.

Also the pvp zones are too small for the current mechanics (sparks, interzone and other TPs, pvp alts, gate alts, detectors, probes ).  There are too few islands, too few connections leading on/off pvp isalnds and the lack of connections between different beta pairs is just mind boggling (any news on the new TP network?).

This. 

As for SAPs I've always considered the auto defense mechanic broken. One of the objectives of Intrusion 2.0 was to encourage active usage of the outpost you own. Despite the time it may take to scan a dozen SAP timer that hardly constitutes a good reason to leave it. We're not supposed to be able to manage so many outposts.   

I like idea of some type of action for Defender to take, such as simply right clicking some panel for few seconds just to register a presence. This would not defend the SAP only activate the points received if no successful attack. A compromise would be to have reduced auto defense points, like 1/5 the current. So if you have an active SAP and no Defender is there to activate the thingy-mcbob, and no one attacks, defender gets 3 points. If defender activates thingy-mcgiggle  a d no successful attack then standard 15 points.

Point is that active presence should mean something.

Oh yeah, also *** kill sparks on Beta (or permit one and only one and only if you own outpost).

I have always consider the current intrusion 2.0 system broken as a whole. That is why I don't think it would be wise to keep making small changes to something that needs to be removed from the game and replaced with a new system.

While your item submission for the defenders would work just from a mechanic aspect. I think it doesn't work as a station holding game mechanic.

I would rather see the removal of the current system and it replaced with a system that the attackers need to place an item saying they want to attack. And when this happens the defenders only need to defend to hold it or lose to lose it. (Of course this is a high level description)

Enough with the current rolling server mechanic system that dictates when attacks will happen or not. That type of system is better suited for faction warfare type play style. Where specific bonuses keep changing hands.

Burial wrote:

Whoever comes on top on more of the SAPs gets the outpost. The change only moves the win-by-default clause to draw when no one shows up.

Why exactly should outpost stability increase with no work?


What happens if the defenders show up and no attackers show up? What is used in game to register successful defense?

100

(45 replies, posted in Balancing)

SmokeyIndustries wrote:
Gremrod wrote:
SmokeyIndustries wrote:

Forgive my ignorance on the issue, but wouldn't it be possible to limit the amount of instances being run at the same time? I don't care if they have 100 accounts, you're only able to play 1 at a time per computer? Would there be a way to limit it so that people with multiple computers can't just bypass it that way?

Yes


Seems like that would be the way to go then if this were implemented.

Yes was the simple answer.

But a lot of problems come with this approach. Entire blocks,  apartment buildings etc. can have the same IP address. So this type of approach could cause the game more harm then good.

Example: People in the same house would not be able to play together.