101

(392 replies, posted in Bugs)

Annihilator wrote:

at least zoom has a topic for his monthly blog now...

The sharks ate that too

102

(392 replies, posted in Bugs)

Race Drones don't be so naive.  The sharks ate your data.  Obviously.

103

(392 replies, posted in Bugs)

One of the first rules in the software business is "Don't outsource your core business".  I was going to post a lecture on why but then I read this:

http://tobolds.blogspot.com/2014/06/don … iness.html

I lol'd

104

(4 replies, posted in Open discussion)

Yay the pillar is back.  Gen chat can become interesting once again.

Rasnath wrote:
Kayin Prime wrote:
Rasnath wrote:

getting pvp flagged when porting to beta from alpha is a bad idea. Just outright bad. Any transporters or artifacters getting pvped on alpha looks bad.

Why?

If you're transporting from Beta to Alpha there should actually be a risk.  Right now you drop a standard tele, wait for it to spool, undock,  run to tele,  jump to exit tele.   There's practically no opportunity for gank. If you can tank 1 shot then you're invincible hauling to Alpha.  Guaranteed success.   

Hauling from gamma to alpha actually poses acceptable risk because after you jump out of gamma you're still pvp-able. Exactly as it should be and exactly as proposed.

Do you realize how much content this game could have if people could actually gank supply lines?  I would trade gate games for legitimate supply line defense any day of the week, no matter how it makes my own life harder.

-K

simple, you have molecular instability when you get out of teleport. A scarab gets oneshot.

Between my instability and syndicate protection is approx a 15 second window. 
15 seconds.
Let me say that again,  15 SECONDS. That's it, that's your whole window.  For the hauler, that's all the risk you have. 15 seconds of risk.

I didn't say there was no window, I said there was practically no window, because 15 seconds is not practical. 

Put a plate on your scarab and suddenly there is no risk at all.  Who's plated a scarab before because it'd make them survive a 1 shot? Who could that be Rasnath? Anybody we know? Nudge nudge wink wink.

I'm about to start telling stories of when we jump Scarabs through Beta right in front of fleets at a teleport to try and get them to flag. It's so ridiculous we rub it in people's faces.

-K

Rasnath wrote:

getting pvp flagged when porting to beta from alpha is a bad idea. Just outright bad. Any transporters or artifacters getting pvped on alpha looks bad.

Why?

If you're transporting from Beta to Alpha there should actually be a risk.  Right now you drop a standard tele, wait for it to spool, undock,  run to tele,  jump to exit tele.   There's practically no opportunity for gank. If you can tank 1 shot then you're invincible hauling to Alpha.  Guaranteed success.   

Hauling from gamma to alpha actually poses acceptable risk because after you jump out of gamma you're still pvp-able. Exactly as it should be and exactly as proposed.

Do you realize how much content this game could have if people could actually gank supply lines?  I would trade gate games for legitimate supply line defense any day of the week, no matter how it makes my own life harder.

-K

DEV Zoom wrote:

That's not what I meant though. Based on some posts here, right now escaping back to alpha with a PvP flag is deemed "insufficient punishment" because you can't catch the victim before the flag expires. Receiving a PvP flag when going back to alpha, regardless whether you were doing PvP on beta or not would make practically no difference to this outcome, because you can't catch him anyway.

It would have one consequence though, namely that victim-hungry teleport camps would be placed on the alpha side now.

I'm disagree with you about being unable to catch them.  We can't catch them on Beta because they don't really enter Beta.  Sitting at the teleport is a tease that they're entering Beta. A tease and a threat really, like sticking your tongue out then jumping across the line when someone responds to the troll. It only takes the twitch of a finger muscle.

By adding the PvP flag when jumping out of Beta the entrance to Alpha is not a single activation tile. There is no more bottle neck.  There is no twitch of a finger muscle.  Now it becomes a time dependent entrance - a cool off from PvP.  If you want to escape you'll run and cool off, but you HAVE TO RUN. 

The twitch of a finger muscle to quickly click a button is not "running away".     
Sitting on a teleport teasing that you're about to PvP but immediately jump out at the first sign of a threat is not committing to entering a PvP zone.

As for the teleport camping.  Yes and no.   As soon as you teleport onto the island you commit to entering a PvP zone. If I face check an Artemis. I can still teleport back to alpha and run like hell and possibly get away.  That's the difference - I have a fighting chance at running away and that artemis has a fighting chance of catching me. The teleport back to alpha gives me that head start  where as trying to run away on Beta doesn't as I have no where to go really.  It's not a camp if I'm not cornered immediately upon spawn.   

Not to mention the camp is instantly broken the second that artemis has to jump through and chase me.  He now enters an area he doesn't have eyes on.  It could be a trap. Who knows.  That is truly a chase. Both parties are on equal ground at that point with the runner having a head start. A valid head start.

-K

Annihilator wrote:

please DEV Zoom, to make it consistent, you also need to make auto PVP flag when you log in or undock an outpost on beta or gamma.

Also, Members of corporations who own a beta or gamma station need to be permanently PvP flagged on alpha because their ownership commits them to be PvP player.

I'm actually ok with that.  Despite obvious troll being obvious.

DEV Zoom wrote:
Kayin Prime wrote:

Then it seems like a more consistent step would be to force a PvP flag after you come back from beta whether you engaged in PvP or not.

That's an interesting idea, but would it matter?

Zoom, yes this would matter because when you decide to jump to beta you would be truly are committing to entering a PvP zone.

Right now you are not committing to PvP because you can jump back to 100% safety within a small window. Then you can jump back in, then jump back out, then jump back in, etc.  There is no commitment.  You can grief and tease that you're going to PvP but you are not committing to anything.

Anyone who has experience with women know that a tease is not a commitment.

-K

Kayin Prime wrote:

- You are NOT committing to PvP by jumping to Beta alone. You have to get a few thousand meters off the TP before you're committing anything.

- You can go from 100% certain death to 100% safety via the click of a button and then reengage 30 seconds later when circumstances are in your favor.

- Attackers will constantly refresh PvP flag whereas defenders will not.  The game mechanics favor running away rather than fighting.   

These are the problems with the current jump mechanics.  These were not created by the patch.  The patch only makes them worse.

-K

Annihilator. Your post had nothing to do with the thread so I'm going to shamelessly repost this.

- You are NOT committing to PvP by jumping to Beta alone. You have to get a few thousand meters off the TP before you're committing anything.

- You can go from 100% certain death to 100% safety via the click of a button and then reengage 30 seconds later when circumstances are in your favor.

- Attackers will constantly refresh PvP flag whereas defenders will not.  The game mechanics favor running away rather than fighting.   

These are the problems with the current jump mechanics.  These were not created by the patch.  The patch only makes them worse.

-K

Blocker:

- You ninja something on beta and get out without flagging, good for you.
- You ninja something, get caught, win / run away successfully,  good for you.

What DOES happen that needs to be fixed:

- You ninja something, get caught, fight, realize you're going to die, slow boat it to the teleport in your quad plate demob-immune heavy,  jump through, and tank all damage until your flag's up.   Now you're 100% safe despite the fleet that's literally on top of you while simultaneously that same entire fleet is at a major disadvantage because we're ALL flagged (vulnerable to attack), unable to jump back to beta, and worse of all we can't control any of the ground we're standing on. 

Your fleet could be sitting there with all the time and freedom to re-position,  change ammo,  hell - even jump in more bots by the time our stability goes away.

That's the fleet scenario. 

This change would actually ADD more ninja opportunity. Consider the hauler scenario:

The time between syndicate protection wearing off vs my stability is the only window you have to ganking my scarab coming off Beta. That's it. That's your window to gank and ruin my day.  Not enough in my opinion.  I don't have to give a *** what's on the other side of Alpha. If haulers had a pvp flag set after jumping through by default... just imagine..  I can think of new corp ops, new bot configurations. New purposes to old bots long forgotten.. Newbies pvp'ing with fairly high risk/reward.  Etc.

-K

$0.02

DEV Zoom wrote:

Well it may not be the best gameplay mechanic, but I think it's a good thing that we have a transitional grey area between "full safety" and "no escape death".

There is no transitional grey area between full safety and certain death when you haven't fired a shot at the gate.   When you're being pursued or even shot at and you jump to Alpha you're immediately safe.

There is no risk in teleporting to beta. You're really not committing to entering a PvP zone until you get about 3000 meters off that teleporter.

That's another imbalance actually.

You virtually cannot escape when you're in the middle of the island, but at the teleport to alpha you virtually cannot die.

This is why PvP takes place inside the island and 'gate games' take place on the gates.

Then it seems like a more consistent step would be to force a PvP flag after you come back from beta whether you engaged in PvP or not.

To flag in beta you have to demonstrate your willingness to PvP.

For example you do something like:
- Shoot someone
- Shoot someone's TP
- Shoot a probe

Why be allowed to jump out of a PvP zone when you've clearly demonstrated your hostile intent?  Even back when Cir/77 owned the world I didn't understand why we're allowed to jump when flagged.

I suspect it wasn't always this way? Maybe it was.  Can someone give me some history and maybe we have a real discussion about it? I don't understand why it works that way.

-K

117

(11 replies, posted in General discussion)

KUSTOMROD wrote:

1 more person with 50 accounts???


There I fixed it for you

118

(28 replies, posted in General discussion)

You're*

119

(41 replies, posted in General discussion)

*waiting patiently for zoom to re-post the CIR complaint form*

Please fill out complains about your devs in writing.

120

(392 replies, posted in Bugs)

DEV Zoom wrote:

Well here is what they said:

"Latency at the middle routers are usually because routers don't treat packets directed to them with high priority. Some of them even drop the packets without response.
It should be fine to ignore the middle routers as long as destination see no loss and no latency."

That's awesome. I love network guys.  "Yea, we know our routers are dropping packets and operating inefficiently. Therefore it's a software problem with your application."

Their response is usually correct for a stateless non streaming application - like a website - which is funny because unfortunately people are also mentioning this website runs like crap whenever they're having perp connection issues..

So, like I just mentioned, their statement is invalid as there are obviously reports of service disruption that could be related to network latency or loss - both on the perp application during connection (which I believe hits a HTTP REST service right?) AND in a lesser manner on the website.

The problem is this isn't a human waiting to read a bunch of text where the problem isn't noticeable. It's a computer application expecting an immediate response that likes to hang when it doesn't get a fast response. Just saying - gaming applications have a higher service demand than websites.

It's great they at least didn't deny it was happening. It's just a matter of making them give a crap. Sadly if you're not forking over enough money they'll likely just ignore you as they'd rather lose you as a client than actually do the work necessary to fix their ***.

Did I mention Perp isn't the only one to experience this?

-K

121

(392 replies, posted in Bugs)

lol,  Did YOU read the results?

4th:  http://forums.riftgame.com/technical-di … ues-6.html
5th:  http://forums.archeagegame.com/archive/ … d10876074b
6th:  http://forums.archeagegame.com/archive/ … d10876074b
7th:  http://support.unblock-us.com/customer/ … -?b_id=530

Most of them show a clear trace route and then just after it reveals a high ping at that node.

122

(392 replies, posted in Bugs)

Googling the problem child node:
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=+a … .voxel.net

Looks like Perpetuum isn't the first to encounter this.

123

(392 replies, posted in Bugs)

DEV Zoom wrote:

No I didn't say that. What I meant is that it doesn't necessarily mean that you have 2000+ms lag there, but rather that it has some throttling of some kind for pings to avoid attacks or something. Which is reinforced by the fact that if you would have lag then you would have it on every subsequent node too. But correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not an expert on this.

Network defense software doesn't throttle suspicious traffic, they outright drop it.  Not to mention the ICMP packets used in a tracerout or ping are standard network diagnostic tools. They don't register as hostile on NIDSs unless their origin is suspicious or they reach flood level - which a ping or tracerout from a single computer is not capable of reaching by itself.

Any intentional configuration that introduces that kind level lag to the network is in direct conflict with that company's business model. There's something weird going on with that host.

124

(392 replies, posted in Bugs)

DEV Zoom wrote:

Yeah that voxel.net shows 1-2000ms for me and everyone I asked but no apparent lag ingame. Could be some defense mechanism on that particluar node, as the Perpetuum server itself pings fine.

What?  You think a 2000+ ping is normal behavior and not indicating a problem?  No.. where there is smoke there is fire and anything that goes over 80 should be looked at,  let alone several thousand. 

I know it's like pulling teeth to get a 3rd party host to investigate a network issue but you have to remember Perpetuum is not a normal hosted application - like a website, it's a dedicated steaming service (similar to netflix). Read about what their service acts like when a switch in Alaska fails. You'd never expect the side effects. Perpetuum's level of service demands higher standards or else THIS *** happens.

-K

125

(25 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

Honestly the dev's could do this via a webpage on the site. They don't even need an ingame screen.  That'd easily be less than 8 man hours. Easily.