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Since youve posted a graph .. lets go into the details:
Gauss and LCL Lasers are the two top weapons. But if you look at their range then youll realize that theres little use for those (in PvP).
So on place 3 we have EM-Guns closely followed by Missiles (4) and Longrange Lasers (5).
Longrange lasers eat your cap real fast (less AP available for tanking) and Missiles dont require any AP at all and have the LoS advantage.
EM-Guns are also harsh on the cap and they have less range then Lasers and Missiles.
Whats the best Weapon? .. right .. Missiles..
The graph ignores MGs and ACs for some reason .. maybe because it would show how much Gauss and Shortrange lasers suck (in comparsion).
Edit: And since this is no longer a secret and because were discussing graphs that dont show how its calculated:
http://po.roving-guns.com/we.jpg
Thats what it look like if you take APS (AP per second) DPS (Damage per Second) and Range into account.
Heh thats why the artemis is more like a tank then a laser platform.
But the artemis is:P not the bot with the highest AP recharge rate.... 
Yea but mechs dont have that bonus. And whats the point of having a third (or forth) legslot if youre "forced" to use a specific fitting? Thats not how it should work.
Well Anni theres a different reason for that.
Many people refuse to follow the trend. I could be in a kain by now but i dont WANT TO.
Also there are many people which invested their ep into "gimped" bots and are not willing to respec only for that. Its already too late if were all using the same bots (see kain).
Devs are busy (fixing the server) atm and those are very serious changes for us (who are here since several months).
I wish it would be that easy.
Missiles are already is an obvious pvp issue
ACs and Missile launchers are the two most op weapons in this game.
But then again .. you just started with PO. Id suggest you play the game for some weeks before making suggestions.
Most of the stuff youre asking for is already planned. However i like the missile/ac swap idea.
Yes Laser require a lot of EP in AP skills.
E.g. energy management and accumulator expansion.
Lasers are the weapons that require the most AP
Even light lasers need more AP then the most Medium weapons. (Only medium em-guns and medium lasers need more).
Mara you posted logs that are taken out of context. The log is incomplete and youve removed some lines.
That makes you a liar.
AgY wrote:...
And discussing changes on the forums only leads to muckraking because some people are not interested in real balance. All they want is a personal advantage. (thats how we got this assault mess)
Im out of this thread.
From the closed thread and even more valid then before:
Aiii..
I didnt spend any EP because i refused to accept that my bots remain gimped.
Many things in this game are imbalanced. Thats because of biased suggestions and people asking for a particular buff/nerf without taking all things into account.
Why should a outpost radar solve all bot imbalances we have in game? It doesnt ..
It would be yet another knee-jerk reaction that adds more complexity on top of the imbalances we have in game.
All bots (yes all) need to be reviewed and rebalanced.
POs ingame and balancing dynamics are very complex but to a degree calculable if you take the right things into account.
And discussing changes on the forums only leads to muckraking because some people are not interested in real balance. All they want is a personal advantage. (thats how we got this assault mess)
Aiii..
I didnt spend any EP because i refused to accept that my bots remain gimped.
Many things in this game are imbalanced. Thats because of biased suggestions and people asking for a particular buff/nerf without taking all things into account.
Why should a outpost radar solve all bot imbalances we have in game? It doesnt ..
It would be yet another knee-jerk reaction that adds more complexity on top of the imbalances we have in game.
All bots (yes all) need to be reviewed and rebalanced.
POs ingame and balancing dynamics are very complex but to a degree calculable if you take the right things into account.
And discussing changes on the forums only leads to muckraking because some people are not interested in real balance. All they want is a personal advantage. (thats how we got this assault mess)
Mara Kaid wrote:I don't think only veterans should be privy to this.
You need experienced players with a real interest in balance to do the job.
Players with years of experience in online gaming (im not talking about the other game or po for that matter) player who already know what is balanced and what not from what they have seen in other games.
Besides that: I didnt say anything about assaults but yet again i see a lot of propaganda.
My comment was generic and not aimed at assaults or mechs.
EP matters. Someone with 300% damage bonus, 30% more speed and 50% more locking range vs someone without is ridiculous.
If you want new players to be competitive from day one then you should start with the EP system and not with buffs for certain bots that bring a imbalance into the landscape of PO.
Edit: typos 
Mara: If thats the goal then devs should remove the ep system or a large part of it.
Lemon wrote:Guys, this is all great feed back but again the goal of this thread is to get the view of the debs so we may better understand where they are trying to take this game.
Lets stick to that. Lemon is taking the right approach. We need to know what they plan in order to help balancing stuff.
Lemon wrote:On the note of setting up good suggestions and changes that could be implanted I am sure we could get a group of veterans together to hammer out what we as a collective group think would best balance the game for BvB and AvB pvp. Before we can do that thou I think it is important to know were we are going first.
Exactly. And until then its all guesswork.
Alexander wrote:The game used to be level and that all robots could do every task but in a different way. Now factions and robots have become cookie cutter designs and it's almost heart breaking.
I think thats because we have got too many layers of rock-paper-scissors:
range-speed-armor (the worst one as faction defines what your bots are good for)
thermal-kinetic-seismic-chemical (perfectly balanced)
bot-bonuses on attributes that are not comparable:
EW-Range vs ECM strength vs Drainer/Neut-Range
Locking time vs Critical hit vs Turret Falloff
Armor-Rep vs Shield absorbtion vs Resistance points (sounds intresting but .. how to balance that?)
And then we have different number of (generic) slots on some bots within the same class that build on top of that all.
I dont see the big picture. Where are we going?
I asked myself the same. I tried to understand whats in place but i dont get it.
Its not like if you could go blue, green or yellow and play the game how you want.
Whatever you choose it forces you to use your bot(s) in a certain way.
Its not the number of plates that determines if youre faster or not its the bot itself.
Arga wrote:"Our combat forces are underpowered, we need to recruit more players."
"Our production is underpowered, we can't move enough material, give us bigger bots."
I seem to sense a disparity in thinking.
If your putting 12 Rivelers out in the field, but only allowing 1 lithus for transport, then that's not a game problem. If 11 of those Rivelers are the same player, that's not a game problem either.
If hauling is a bottleneck, then recruit more haulers.
There will always be something in the chain that slows down production, which is part of the game design.
What you dont understand is that thats exactly what *we* are doing.
I guess you missed our 12 lithus that hauled stuff for several hours... and it IS a game problem.
1) My ~300k NIC light assault bot that doesnt require epriton isnt fast enought to kill a ~1.2M kain.
2) I want a cheap PvP bot that is more useful then a kain
3) Make assault bots faster then kains
*fail*
Id suggest a Cargo transfer beam (for the spare slot each industrial has)
Not sure what happens if you allow people to transfer cargo just because they are in the same squad. Maybe that people exploit that during PvP.
Arga, have you ever sold tiered items to the market?
.. now on the right char ..
While talking about different suggestions within the same topic:
Lol, all i wanted is some arms and thats not a balancing issue but a optical issue.
Please dont complicate things by adding a *** of features around a OPTICAL issue
This discussion is like: "Will/should the new robot paint add additional mass to the robot?"
I like some of your ideas .. but all i want/need/had in mind is some arms that dont add additional mass to my robot.
Well there cant be "fake blibs" for visual detection But like it is in real life .. people are prolly starting to see "things".
I dont know how "theres is something unknown in my line of sight" can be used for hacking.
can be a friend a enemy .. or just a npc
Because thats the only information that the client needs to render a grey *something*.
Maybe limit it to 5 or 7km (performance reasons)
detection range is your radar range
No you wont see them they "disappear" when leaving your radar range.
btw .. imagine what fog means for your island (or your roam):
http://po.roving-guns.com/fog.jpg
Cant see *** "... lets wait till the fog is gone ... " .. haha
too bad we cant embed pictures:
Bot thats sneaking in:
http://po.roving-guns.com/hide.jpg
found it?
If not .. its here:
http://po.roving-guns.com/found.jpg
We already have the whole line-of-sight thing. (for weapons)
All the server/client needs to do is render grey *somethings* (without a landmark) until its in radar range.
Maybe then people start climbing on the hills and looking out for something that moves .. rather then tp-camp the whole island. Spec-op bots do what they are supposed todo..
Hide in the plants and wait for the miners to settle
Theres a lot of potential in this For defenders as well as attackers.
While were at it. Another aspect of those "older" mw games was that you could SEE (visual) that theres something coming but there was no way to tell if its friendly or not until its in radar range.
And that was something i really really loved.
Basically like keeping your eyes open instead of staring at landmark list ...
and using the terrain (playing hide and seek) rather then maskers/detectors that let a mech "magically" apear 300m infront of you (*dang*).
I second that. Except for the CEO part.
I dont want to hear you bashing Styx or somebody else.
But a objective report of what happend and what that means for the future of perpetuum shouldnt be missing.
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