Does this issue still exist?

unplayable = black screen or performance issues?

Sadly we don't have an offline benchmark mode (it'd make my life a lot easier tho, we'll have it one day...), but any effort is appreciated. The more cards we can identify that have the black screen issue the bigger the chance of us locating one and being able to fix this.

If this doesn't happen every time that's a separate issue, in this thread we're looking for videocards completely incapable of displaying the new terrain so I can get my hands on one of them and fix the issue.

We're trying to confirm an issue regarding older ATI videocards - the issue was detected on an ati x1950 pro and manifests in a black screen when you go to the terrain.

If you own or have access to a system with older videocards we'd appreciate you testing the new client on them. All you need to do is dock out to the terrain and report if the given videocard could display the terrain or not. (Videocardname + OK or BLACKSCREEN should be enough)

Thanks smile

(x1950 confirmed from two sources now)

30

(23 replies, posted in Testing server)

Well that didn't help either. Ok this is at the point where we'll need to hunt down a system that can reproduce this issue. There's not much more we can do until then. We're on it don't worry.

31

(23 replies, posted in Testing server)

Well this is really a weird issue... We replaced one of the shaders on the terrain for now, would you please check and do another dump? This might not fix anything yet, but we need to reduce the possibilities.

32

(23 replies, posted in Testing server)

We put out a new client with a lot more logging going on, please do another dump now, same as before with d3d debug.

33

(23 replies, posted in Testing server)

Allright then do the log thingie again, I added some extra logging just in case. Make sure d3d debug is on again so I can find the errors.

34

(23 replies, posted in Testing server)

Allright, the new client should be up, please let me know if this has fixed the game for you, Lahha.

Annihilator: no, this issue is a missing videocard feature kinda thing, those errors you referred to indicate missing artwork (they are mainly a way for the graphics artists to track down content bugs, not all of them are actual errors)

35

(23 replies, posted in Testing server)

We're currently testing a build internally that might solve this issue - if we don't find any problems with it ourselves we'll put it on the test server so you can check it out. I'll notify you here if that happens.

36

(23 replies, posted in Testing server)

Looks like the texture format used by the new terrain engine isn't supported by your card, I'm looking into a workaround.

37

(23 replies, posted in Testing server)

Ok... This will take a while to process smile We'll probably need to do some more tracing of this but first we'll have to narrow the problem down - I'll get back to you on this tomorrow hopefully.

38

(23 replies, posted in Testing server)

Allright, that's good. Here's what I need you to do:
Run C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft DirectX SDK (June 2010)\Utilities\bin\x86\dxcpl.exe, this is the dx sdk config tool. I'll need you to put the sdk into debug mode for this.

To do that you'll need to go to the direct3d 9 tab and set two things: the debug output level should be the second to last (setting it all the way up will just fill the log with unneeded data so don't do that), and set the debug/retail d3d9 runtime option to "use debug version of direct3d 9".

Once you're done with this create a clean log just like you did and drop it to pastebin.

Also don't forget to undo the changes (set the sdk back to retail) once you've created the log or you'll experience diminished performance with d3d apps.

39

(23 replies, posted in Testing server)

Well in this case I'd need to have a look at a d3d debug if you're willing to go into some length to test this issue for us - it does involve installing the d3d sdk  and dbgview however smile

40

(23 replies, posted in Testing server)

Check something for me please: turn off shadows completely, turn off AA completely, go into fullscreen 1024*768 mode, restart the client and see if that does anything to fix the issue. (This should reduce video memory requirements a bit and if this works we'll need to have a look at the vidmem usage of the client)

41

(1 replies, posted in Testing server)

That's not easily guessed as it'll depend on a variety of things like how the beacon deployment pattern and how precisely you'll want to implement the plan. We can give you an estimate on how much terrain you'd need to move compared to the current terrain conditions to get the desired result. I'll look into it.

The plan is to release the gfx update along with the PBS expansion - at this point it's less work to finish everything than to revert the changes wink It's mostly content that's missing, the new lighting setup is still in the works, but the code is basically finished. I've since moved on to implement the player oriented terraforming toolset.
The avatars will get some love as well, but only after we're done with PBS. They will need a lot of experimenting with different rendering techniques and some new content as well, but right now with the looming expansion they're not too high on the todo list as you might imagine.

43

(9 replies, posted in Bugs)

Yes, rewriting the animation system is on the todo of course, and has been for a while. The current new animations are a way we found to fix the biggest animation issue without having to go into a 6 month coding session, but at one point it will have to be done. For now we can do a lot more visually with comparatively much less work.

44

(9 replies, posted in Bugs)

Unfortunately implementing better animation blending is one of the things that would require a major rewrite of the 3d engine. As you can imagine the animation system was one of the first things to be implemented about 5 years ago and just about everything in the 3d engine relies on it. This old architecture only supports blending between two animations at once and the current setup is the most we can make of that. As with everything else when working with such a small team we need to prioritize - the rewrite of the 3d engine that would be required to implement a proper animation blending pipeline with partially procedural animations would require about 4-6 months of work. We can bring the whole visual quality of the game to a whole new level with that amount of work, which is what we chose to do for now.

Alexander wrote:

The only issue I have is the large amount of silence and then information overload. So I am left thinking we won't hear any more information officially until patch day now.

This was mainly due to the holidays - two of us also moved during the last week of december, so we had our hands full.

You're talking about several different things here smile
One is the client's performance requirement while not active (when you're doing other stuff) which we already regulate, but from what I've seen in other games we could go as far as dropping the framerate to 10-15 fps in this case - this can be implemented as a client option if needed.

Then there's the terrain vs terminal performance discrepancy vs having multiple cores in your machine. The way the graphics pipeline works is by first doing stuff on the cpu to prepare the scene to be rendered by the gpu. While the cpu is working optimally the gpu is drawing the previous frame, but if the cpu side is taking too long the gpu just idles waiting for things to do. In the case of the terminal the cpu has very little to do except drawing the interface, so the gpu becomes the bottleneck. On the terrain however we need to process many thousands of items in the scene graph (animating the whole scene etc) which takes a lot of time.
On most systems we've tested if we calculate everything we need on the cpu side just "fail" to send it over to the gpu, we get a framerate increase of about 5-10%. If we remove the cpu side work from the engine as well, we get 500-1000% increases. This means that the drawing part on the gpu (the fancy new terrain shaders for example) doesn't really matter in the performance because the gpu is waiting on the cpu anyways. The systems that don't behave like this are those that have gpus on the lower end of the scale coupled with relatively high performance cpus - mobile devices mostly, like laptops and such.
Also, due to the nature of scene graph traversal and the architecture of our engine the 3D engine's cpu part can only use a single core in your pc.

The new terrain engine actually removes most of the associated load on the cpu side while moving around and thereby makes things a lot more even. My aim is that the performance of the game is actually increased from these changes.

Stranger Danger: I'm also looking into making the shadows better - that subject is still heavily in the research phase. One of the key points I'm looking at with each technique I try is that the performance should not suffer and most shadowing approaches I've checked that would actually be an upgrade don't fit that bill. However with the shader 2.0 limitations lifted my hands aren't as bound as before wink
But yeah as many people said I don't create content, I create the code that displays the content, so don't worry - the content guys are very hard at work on the new stuff.

48

(4 replies, posted in Q & A)

The current user interface engine is pretty strict when it comes to resizing, so that's a definite no. As for rendering the 3d at different resolutions to keep the fillrate constant - that has it's own separate set of issues starting with not being able to use antialiasing on rendertargets all the way to fillrate not actually being a bottleneck on most pcs for Perpetuum.
On most systems the cpu is our bottleneck and I'm working hard on relieving some of the workload from there.
There's a very quick way to see if your system has a fillrate issue or not - if you only change the resolution of the game and the framerate changes drastically you're most likely fillrate bound. Mobile hardware is the only place where we have confirmed this, but that's... well... mobile hardware smile

49

(4 replies, posted in Q & A)

Ok, let me first explain why I asked you to tell me ms values and not fps values.

If the game runs at 100 fps and you experience a 5 fps rise with a resolution change that means the change is around 5% and is truly minimal. However if you have the game running at 5 fps and you experience a 5 fps rise, you get 100% better performance which is NOT minimal. The same values in ms are 10ms->9.5ms vs 200ms->100ms, the first one being a .5 ms change and the latter a 100ms change which in itself is very solid data (fps change in itself is not as you can see because both values were caused by a 5 fps change).

The reason why I asked you to change the resolution is not because of wine - it is to eliminate fillrate dependency on your laptop as the cause of the slowness. If the game is heavily fillrate dependent on your system, changing the resolution to a lower one would result in a proportional speedup - so if you change from 1440x1050 (1.5 million pixels) to 1024x768 (0.78 million pixels) the pixels to draw should roughly be halved and your speed should roughly double.

The disappearing terrain issue is only happening in wine which we don't officially support due to the lack of manpower on the team.

Also the draw distance setting is value should be set to middle or lower on most configurations, the two options above the middle one should be called "overkill" and "insane" smile

50

(22 replies, posted in General discussion)

Naismith wrote:

I would ordinarily be happy and content that you guys were working hard...
... if I didn't hear DEV Alf logged 30 hours of Skyrim 2 days after the game released. lol

We have a standing agreement in the office that I take a week off after Diablo 3 comes out wink
We're gamers too, you know smile