Syndic wrote:

I was talkin bout DFUW being the launch title for Steam's subscription service :

ummm how are you relevant again >?


(33 replies, posted in General discussion)

You may be correct I haven’t played that game in years but I suggested this because if your Corp is going for high security you may place all but one of your structures in your prime time, so that your main opponent will not be able to take all of your structures in one go unless they have large forces in all the different time zones. Also many Corps want to be able to have control over the vulnerability of their PBS’s so this makes sense I think.


(33 replies, posted in General discussion)

Some thoughts on PBS’s

PBS’s should be constructed in a modular fashion, for example

Terminal: when a player Corp wants to build an terminal they can construct the terminal ( no facilities at this point) all they get is docking, market, personal and Corp hanger access.

Refinery & facilities: All facilities will be able to be accessed from the main terminal once constructed just like the current system for terminals. When a player Corp wants to have the capability to refine recourses they will need to build a refinery, this is a separate structure that must be constructed within ~500 m to ~750m of the main terminal. This structure will have separate attributes from the main terminal and will be able to be destroyed by opposing players. All facilities must be destroyed in order for the main terminal to be destroyed. Each additional facility that is added to the main terminal adds to the maximum shield HP of the main terminal. Once all of the facilities for the main terminal are destroyed and its shield removed the opposing players may either completely  destroy the terminal or salvage it.

Salvaging: salvaging terminals produces the items that were stored inside the terminals hangers. Salvaging is a process similar to the current active sap capture where players will need salvaging modules equipped and search through the wreckage. You will only be able to salvage items that will fit into your cargo, (of course )…. (scarab)so bring a hauler. The players who had items in the terminal when it was destroyed / salvaged will loose these items.

Construction : PBS’s can be constructed on the new Gama islands. The construction process will take ~4 hours to complete during this time the player Corp constructing the terminal will be required to Deposit large amounts of building materials into the construction “crane” in order for the crane to complete the construction. The construction crane is an item that can be bought from NPC sell orders on the market for 500m Nic. The construction materials for the terminal could consist of ~10K U Titan Ore, ~10K U Sterm, ~2K U Alligore etc.. the facilities would be about 20% of the cost of the main terminal. But constructed in the same way. Terminals must be completed before facilities can start construction.

Destruction: PBS’s will be vulnerable to attack for a period of 1 Hour every day this will coincide with the original construction start time (this is for the shields to cycle on the facilities and the terminal). Each structure will have its own individual timer (so if you want them to all come up at the same time make sure to start them all at the same time of day for your forces to defend). Terminals HP should be about ~1M HP while facilities should be about 250K HP.. ..

At work .. bbl later with more

I like the idea although this would only work if there were more beta islands where you could get to any beta island through other beta islands(walk the ring with out having to go through alpha).

I think it could use some tweaks:

* the Bots would be MK3 versions ? - this could work

* the Bots would have to be made in a factory you corp owns ( this makes owning a station WORTH something)

* the Bots should be more unique over the current versions that we have ( more along the lines of the hybrids that were mentioned months ago.)

* the Bots should require new beta only minerals introduced into the game | or you would need to use the PL-10 / 90 forms of the minerals currently in game, this would make the rares useful for things other than just recycling. This would drastically reduce the proliferation of these bots and add to their rarity.

* the Bots could (this is a wish item) have a corporate paint job with the corp logo on the bot some where 8)

+1 to OP idea


(37 replies, posted in Balancing)

Celebro wrote:
Arga wrote:

Looking down the road, to WHEN perp gets more population, if a beta Island has 'everything' it needs to be self-suffcient, some corp/alliance will simply be able to gate camp (more pop means enough players to do this effectively) and never have to leave their island.

So, if they can lock themselves up and have every resource at their disposal, is that a real issue? Game is trying to force a play style instead of being more open to the decisions made by players, this is not good.

Locking up and island is not an easy task, perhaps easier with more players, but would their be enough resources available to be self-sufficient with so many players?

At least add some limited titan resource in beta, every game mechanic decision shouldn't be an on and off switch.

i think the most important thing said here is this:

||"Game is trying to force a play style instead of being more open to the decisions made by players, this is not good. "||


Forcing player corps that live on beta to go to alpha to mine minerals is just plain nonsense. ( if the rarest ore can be found on beta islands so should the most ubiquitous) people enjoy choice not being forced into something. beta should be 10x or more better in all aspects over Alpha islands. until then beta is just for Epeen.

Suggestion: add more beta islands than have better aspects such as, larger islands, all resources, larger fields, all 4 star + spawns and other amenities that will make beta islands worth living on. as of right now there is only 1 thing you need from beta and that is Epi. the bonuses from the auras are underwhelming and not worth risk of mining in mk2|T4|T4+ Riv's.


bring titan back to beta and let beta corps be beta corps not alpha/beta corps !!!


(40 replies, posted in Balancing)

I dont think the NIC has anything to do with the volume, But i think Helioptris could use a little "trimming" to make it more transportable.

Annihilator wrote:

T4 Medium plate = +1m hitsize

waiting for the first suicide heavy mech with 16m hitsize... thats a 300m AoE circle of death!

what other lolz fits are people going to come up with?

I want fraps of someone wasting 20M+ NIC piloting a HeavyMech for a jihad explosion....

just because it "possible" doesn't mean its "smart".

It would be nice to have a button/tab added to the market to sort buy orders by newest, largest NIC value, Minerals, Modules etc.

There is no problem with the current system but it will help people who fill lots of buy orders to have these sorting options so they can log in and look to see what they can farm / mine to fill an order quickly and make some NIC.

Currently one has to (I know I know) search and do the math to see how much you will bring in buy filling such and such and order. I think this will help market new comers find orders to fill more easily than the current system.

Also has been asked for before but we need distance (buying things in other terminals) purchasing power !!!


(31 replies, posted in Balancing)

Didn’t the Dev’s JUST (few months back) add skills for Neutralizers , Drainers, and Engineering distance  because they were not useful and needed to be balanced with other e-war types? Now they are over powered ? 

Is it just neuts or drainers as well ?  all green mechs over powered ? Are you being serious ? I cant tell. Seems like a joke to me.

All Mechs are able to use them so really any yellow, green or blue bot can use them, because as I recall the only Mech that has bonus to them is the e-war Pelistal  robots the ictus and troiar. So take away Neut bonus and what bonus do you give the green e-war ? RR? ECM? Supression? RSA? Jacking off?

There is very few bots that can sustain using Neuts for more than 60 to 90 seconds (even with injector) without burning out all their Acc (remember your being shot at as well and your shield takes away your acc)

Being a Green Neutralizing Mech is like playing Russian Roulette “ some ones gonna die just hope they do before its you” because once your acc is gone which it will be in the case of Neuts your dead. No Accumulator to shield you.


(6 replies, posted in Bugs)

I also have this bug ... its not all the time but after 1 or 2 hours of farming/mining the sound will cut out .. as i only use effects and not music i dont know if it effects music as well (Sry devs i like my tunes better then perpetuum's cool)


(88 replies, posted in Balancing)

Annihilator wrote:

I dont know what it is, but whenever is see a no-name starting in this forums in balancing, its always about missiles.
FOTM seems to be "missiles users are penalised"

god damn, laser suck!

well this "no-name" has lots of names in game. Try understanding the topic instead of attacking someone for who they are or what Corp there in. Honestly if you payed attention to my posts you would know exactly who I am. But that’s not the point, the topic of the thread is if the skill trees are balanced.

There is a corporate dialogue section for personal attacks. Try to be constructive and leave the politics out of it.


(35 replies, posted in Balancing)

The NIC cost of robots is irrelevant to how well they perform. Performance is based on how well you as a player can effectively (knowing what to do and when) pilot the robot.
Explosion is balanced, yes is does a lot of damage it should.
IMO if you are worried that your target will kill you from its explosion . . . guess what don’t get so close its simple . . L2P and use tactics and ummm maybe some strategy. 

HMechs are not and should not be an “I win button”


(88 replies, posted in Balancing)

If the weapon classes were to be separated then it would add definition to your choice as a pilot. If you decide to pilot blue then you should be committed to piloting that race, the same goes for green and yellow.  I think it would be a major improvement to the game if this was the case.
I just find it silly that at this early stage in the game people are ably to “effectively” pilot two different “factions” of robots while doing large amounts of DPS.

I may be in the minority but honestly this game is not going to go very far by lumping so many skill trees together. The DEV’s should be trying to add “depth”, add “complexity” (not complication) and increase the life of the game. NOT to make is some type of arcade game.

Just listen to general and the help channels and you will find many new players being directly and indirectly told that if they want to be a DPS character they will need to be blue or yellow. When a question like this can be boiled down to just pick turrets it shows the lack of depth or complexity in the game.

Short: more options are better, 1 size fits all turret skills = not good for long run of the game.

Not a theory but a “coming soon” practice.

IF you find the current system "enough as it is" I can understand wanting things easy. But if this game is to last more than a year or two (and increase the player base) there needs to be core changes to the Skill system to allow for more diversity.


(88 replies, posted in Balancing)

@ All of you people / trolls that are not talking about the main topic of the imbalance in the EP required to be proficient in specific DPS trees feel free to start other threads.

This topic is about how much EP it takes to train different DPS types. NOT about slot / fitting options  on bots that's another topic.

Problem: all turret skills are lumped in to a few skills making it super easy to cross train from Lasers To Magnetic Weapons to Firearms

This is not balanced to launchers as the launcher tree has no skills that transfer over to anything, where I could train sharp shooting ,  precision firing,  general firing, rapid firing, and the list goes on to have it apply to 3 different types of weapons.


(88 replies, posted in Balancing)

Arga wrote:

Thanks for bringing the thread back to topic of balance.

Balance what exactly?

There's only way two ways to 'balance' the cross trainability; make all faction weapons distinctly different or make them exactly the same. Are either of these really necessary;

How would making all the faction weapon extensions different improve the game?

How would making all the faction weapon extensions interchangable improve the game?

Saying there's only "two" ways to balance this is just flat wrong.

One way to balance this is stop focusing on how the weapons are used in combat and understand that my OP was about EP and the weapon usage skill tree.

A balance would be to make all 4 types of weapons have their own unique skill set instead of lumping 3 of the 4 into one skill set.

it doesn't matter if its a potato gun or a sling shot if they are going to be classified as different weapons then they should have different skill trees.


(88 replies, posted in Balancing)

Although this conversation has been very interesting could any DEV chime in here please and give us something one way or another to say if this has any future prospect to be balanced or adjusted or anything. I know your all busy at work but a simple "were working on it" would suffice.


(88 replies, posted in Balancing)

Sundial wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

the question is more - do you see anyone switching between seth and mesmer on same agent ?

Syndic does.

/agree /w Sundial

Many pilots swap form yellow mech to blue mech ALL THE TIME !!! if you haven't see people do this im afraid you haven't been playing much in pvp. Politics aside take a look at the 62nd and Cir guys, ive seen many of them able to flip to one color to another just like that on the same toon.


(88 replies, posted in Balancing)

@ Annihilator mmmm ya that would be awesome if artiliary did work off the launcher skill ... confirmed ?

I dont like assuming that the future of this game will bring anything it was an example to provoke thought, this is  why I'm suggesting things that would help to balance the system now. and yes there is more than just Graphics at play in the differences between lasers and magnetic weapons. enough of a different for them to be based in two different factions. if anything (I shouldn't suggest this) firearms and Magnetic weapons could share something because their both projectiles where lasers are focused beams of light.

Yes this was also part of the reason i made this post because firearms are included in the same set of skills as lasers and magnetic weapons thus you get 3x more out of a turret skill than you do a launcher skill.


(88 replies, posted in Balancing)

@Arga, clarify for me please. Are you saying that the cross train between blue and yellow is so small that it is not an issue?

Think 1, 2 or 3 years down the line when maybe large and extra large weapons are in the game, this may be small now but it will have larger effects the longer the game goes on and the more diversity of weapons there are in the game.

like I said before i have no problem with cross training but I think cross training should take a LOT longer than specializing in one weapon type.

I'm not going as far to advocate for specific turret types on bots I just want EP balance.


(88 replies, posted in Balancing)

Iam Abanana wrote:

Takes 256 days to max out unique magnetostatics/optics skills:
1. advanced magnetostatics
2. advanced optics
3. basic magnetostatics
4. basic optics
5. general firing
6. improved falloff
7. precision firing
8. rapid firing
9. sharpshooting

Takes 217 days to max out unique ballistics skills:
1. advanced ballistics
2. basic ballistics
3. complex missile launch
4. missile guidance
5. missile launch
6. propellant mixing
7. seismics

So you tell me what is better. Wait 256 and kick *** with blue and yellow, or wait 217 days and kick *** with green ONLY.

/agreed it should take the same amount of time to specilize in each faction .. by your math 217 days for each.

its kinda silly to only have to spend a little over a month to max out a cross train to a "totally different" faction DPS type


(88 replies, posted in Balancing)

Scyylla wrote:

Last time I checked luanchers also needed next to zero accumulator to fire. This also gives green bots the advantage of not having to dump as many EP into the acc extensions as the other bots. The waspish and tyrannos bith get recharge bonuses for the acc as well.... So not only do you get weapons that use relatively 0 accumulater to fire you also get to more freely fit your bot to tank(not that you need to considering most green bots take advantage of LOS to keep npc from actually hitting them).

One little thought of advantage for the missle bots is that you are also able to last much longer against mobs/overseers that nuet and drain. You still get to fire!

All in all, I believe the balance is good considering the benefits that a green bot has versuses the drawbacks of not being able to quickly swap into a different race bot.

Green bots need just as much or more engineering skills for acc recharge etc.. because of shields and drainers.

Acc usage and LOS are balanced with missile damage, rof and range, which was also helped with the height increase of mechs several months back.

The balance issue present is the amount of EP needed to achieve a high level of proficiency in a specific type of weapon. Where it is imbalanced is when you go the turret path over the missile path you have access to 3x as many weapons for the same base skill sets with the same amount of EP spent for the equivalent missile skills.


(88 replies, posted in Balancing)

Green and Yellow ewar yes, green and yellow DPS no.

I fully agree with Specialization. Some people specialize I do my self. As it stands the vast majority of yellow or blue DPS pilots don't specialize because of the way the skill trees are set. I don't want to make cross training impossible but cross training should be secondary to specialization.

For example:
Hey guys we spotted a squad of 3 blue mechs heading across beta lets go intercept!
Were blue to so lets bring "***" ammo to kill them.


Hey guys we spotted a squad of 3 blue mechs heading across beta lets go intercept!
Were blue too but just jump in the yellow bots and go waste them because we fight just as well in either faction bot.

Shouldn't every one be encouraged to specialize?
If yes then how does the current weapon usage skill tree help this?


(88 replies, posted in Balancing)

Kazzanka wrote:

2. You're assigning an EP value for extensions that doesn't actually exist--it's your own subjective feeling on it's value vs other colors and using it in a balance type of discussion on turrets and launchers.

I'm using the little number in [brackets] next to the star in the extension tree. that is what "rank" the skill is. Also i would be satisfied with the devs saying that yes if / when the artilary / mortars aoe weapons come in to the game they will be based on launcher skills ... or at least there will be weapons in the future that will be based on the launcher skill set. .... something that justifies the system being the way it is.. as for now there is no justification [minus(that is how the Devs want it)]

But as stated (for the purpose of trying to not let this thread go in all kinds of willy nilly directions) my concern is with weapon usage skills only. I do understand that the Ewar skills are multi faction as well as the bonuses i have no problem there.

Alexandar wrote:

Despite of difference between turret and rocket skills, all classes have
1. Common energy system extensions (accumulator, energy control)
2. Common reactor and CPU extensions
3. Common radar system extensions
4. Common advanced robotics extension
5. Common "target analysis" and "critical hit" extension


There is no balance issue with all of the items you have listed.
Do you not have any issue with the weapon usage imbalance related to sharp shooting or general firing?


(88 replies, posted in Balancing)

Celebro wrote:


A: You can still hide and do dps only faction with no LOS.

B: why should all factions be the same? Green is more specialised less training diversity so?

C: game is not ready wait for option 3

Or do a reset smile

A: is balanced as i said before between range/dps/rof
B: not calling for factions to be the same calling for a even playing field for EP
C: waiting . . . . .  .
resetting is not an option i dont want to reset i like green what i am asking the Devs is that there is an imbalance as far as EP training. For example sharp shooting and propellent mixing are both rank 3 skills and cost the same but sharp shooting is "worth" 3x as much because it applies to all three types of turrets and propellent mixing only applies to launchers. thus Green bot players are spendinh just as much EP for weapon skills and getting a LOT less for the EP.

This does not apply to Ewar or support this is only about weapon usage related skills.


(16 replies, posted in Balancing)

/agree. .. maybe this can be in the attribute change patch?