26

(32 replies, posted in Balancing)

Anni, clearly you've never made protos before.

Good post, good points ... smile my thoughts behind some of the things I suggested ...

Ellis Island would be a separate server from PO. It would solely be a training ground for new players to ease them into how the PO world functions. Rather than make new variants of what's in game, it would use wherever possible what's already coded.

Noobs should be able to see every item and its stats, up to T4+, but only fit to T3 ... Why? To give them carrots to come to the main game, to understand the value of the higher tier items. Usage up to T3 shows them a great improvement over T1 (T2 of course generally is same as T1 but better fitting and less weight). Let them know there's even better stuff (T4) but make them commit to the game in order to use it.

The reason nothing but EP follows the player to PO is so they can stay on Ellis as long as they want and need to, but it's not a substitute for the real game, it serves its purpose to give them a hands free trial of things.

Terraforming and building wouldn't be limited to just a few structures, but would automatically be wiped when player logs off ... This keeps the area uncluttered but still allows them to make a few castles and a base with a turret or reactor ... Again a taste of what is actually ingame.
The simple purpose of Ellis is to educate the player on what the game is ... No shock needed when they join the game and lose their stuff ... Make sure they are clear on the rules of Ellis and that it's a "Virtual Training Island" that all Nia bound sparks from Earth have to stop at to prepare for their use on PO.

By not keeping stuff it gives the player incentive to get into the real game as fast as possible. By making the tutorials and modules actually understandable to a noob it prepares them better for PO.

This should be the single thing that would improve player retention rates, and make the game flourish .... Without changing existing game mechanics that cripple one style like PVP and buff PVE, or vice versa.

I was thinking something along the same lines, I'll post my vision here.  My thoughts are influenced by other players, even this thread so in no way do I claim this is my "idea"

Essentially create a starter Island in the center of the map.  Physically it appears there is enough space with the current map.

A new character is automatically sent here, with 20k ep,  Ep is accumulated in the same way. 1 per minute.  Created character is done as normal.  Race is not selected.

For sake of this post lets call the starter area Ellis Island.

Ellis operates much in the same way the test server did ...

Every Item in game is available at reduced costs, up to t3.  No t4 as to give noobs incentive to get to alpha, same with Mk2 bots. Items up to t3 to show them the value of improved equipment and teach them how to play with fits and fitting.

Extension costs are reduced.

Every aspect of the game can be tried on Ellis, in a tutorial type module.  Build a terminal and a turret.  costs and time are drastically reduced ... and terminal only lasts until that player logs off.  Pvp in a set area, with whatever bot they can afford EP wise .... this should show new players quite quickly that maybe you can jump into a mech but since your skills suck it may be better to use an improved assault first.  I think this is a common noob mistake, jumping to mech first, and wandering around in a useless mech frustrates them easily.

Have Mining, harvesting, production, reverse engineering, every single game aspect available here to try, with tutorials and way more help and explanation ...

Once said noob has completed enough tutorials, shown enough competencey with what he wants, or simply is ready to go to alpha, or in some cases is a friend of an existing player and just wants to start playing, they reroll all their attibutes and are transported to the alpha of their race.  With the exception of whatever EP they have accumulated while on Ellis (remember this is at the standard 1 per minute) NOTHING they have on Ellis is transfered to Alpha.

Essenially when this noob player hits alpha, they should have a pretty good basic grasp of how the game works, and can start actually playing.   Because of this the alpha can actually be made a little more interesting ... no more dull orange spawns, no more endless level 1 or 2 spawns ..

Basic Idea here is to let Noobs try things, learn how to do thiings, understand things and the game itself, before they actually end up in the game.  I think the throw a noob to the wild appoach is flawed and just results in noobs quitting from lack of understanding.  I also think making the game easier so they stay is also flawed.  This starter concept solves both those issues.

Again ..not my idea, but a mash of everything Ive read ...

But the tutorials have to be way more helpful, and much more understandable than the current ones.
Also, not sure how this would work, but perhaps allow vets to somehow assist noobs on the starter island in guidance only.  Maybe thru a specific chat channel or something to answer and guide noobs ... and as an icentive for vets, give them 2 tokens for evey minute they are actively helping noobs or something  ,,, again not sure on this aspect but something like this would ensure an endless supply of veteran players available to help the noobs, since we hardly see GMs or Devs in game much, and most vets I know want to help out.

Also maybe have on the Starter island ... "kill a Dev" event where all the noobs can jump into the pvp area and fight a Dev ... and probably explode 99 out of 100 times, but have FUN!

Annihilator wrote:

ville is repeating my wife's suggestion...

*the world of NIA must really be close to its extinction* fuuu

Your wife tells you to stop trolling and repeating things ad nauseum?
I'm not surprised.


I was thinking an alpha island in the middle, but making it the starter island for all new characters, and having a taste of all that was in Perp from the mining, terraforming, PvP, pve, etc.  After an new player shows enough competence or completes enough tutorials, they can then select a race and jump to their alpha 1, EP intact and be unleashed in the world. This way a new player at least has a clue what's going on and what works, and they can focus on a career and spend their EP a bit more wisely ...

So all his points mean that new players should automatically know and understand the game perfectly from the second they log in?  This isnt some side scrolling iPhone game with 2 basic commands, jump or duck.  Its quite a complex game.  I remember exactly what it was like to be a new player ... how difficult it was to learn what to use, trying something, dying, trying something else, dying.  Trying something else, and having success, and the feeling of accomplishment that came with it.  Thats what hooked me on the game. I will always say making the game easier is a disaster .. people will get bored and leave unless they are challenged.  This game is not meant to be simple.

The point of my post was to state that all Annihaltor does is complain. Its a broken record, and its getting old quickly.

Why shouldnt a new player learn from experience that a blue bot should use kiting starting out, utilizing his speed advantage, to kill npcs?  Or that a LWF or sen amp will increase the amount of time he will have to shoot the npc while he kites?  Or a green bot should use los to kill his npc? Or red uses range? How else do you learn the nuances of each race and each mod other than trial and error? The problem for the new player for the most part is not the mods or the fittings or the skills.  Its the lack of information and direction, that IMO causes them to lose interest fast.

People need to die, and die often in this game, its part of the learning curve. Its what makes the game tick. I used the FOOM wiki, and sat in their channel when I first joined and it was extremely helpful to me ... they are gone now and their wiki although still useful is badly out of date.

MMOs in general have grinding, you cannot get away from this. Accept it.  Time based subs have content that requires you to spend ... time ... to learn it, the more time you spend the easier it gets, and the more time you spend the more the company makes ... this is the business model accept it.

Certain things for the new player do need to be modified because they are too far beyond what a new player can do.  Daily Kill missions, for example require a new player to kill x of this type and y of that type, somewhere on the island, good luck.  For older players understanding how spawns work and having better skills and equipment this is a decent challenge .... for the newer players limited to a few new robots without half decent skills, and no idea which spawn will be the correct one or even no indication of how spawns actually work, these missions are a nightmare ... this is what needs to be changed.


My TL:DR ... provide more information and tips for new players, and balance some things.  But keep the edge on the gameplay ... making things too fluffy or easy will not retain the new players.

I want the game to succeed.  To that end any chance I can I will help a new player if I see them asking in general or help channel some questions. I will private convo them, even help them run their missions or go with them and show them different game areas and techniques.  One thing I dont do is make comments in General chat like "there is no PVE in the game" which implies to someone new that the second they step out of an alpha terminal they will be shot ...

Annihilator wrote:

discouraging elements for new player, or even vets:

1. T4 lwf must have
2. T4 Sensor Amp must have
3. Extension-less NPCs DpS >>>>> self Repair HPpS
4. 15s locktime
5. few seconds to empty accumulator vs. time it needs to recover from 0% to 50%+
6. leads to recharger as must have equipment or hit&run as only way to fight even the lowest tier of npcs
7. loot vs. cargo hold. + need to delete drops
8. grind, grind, grind, grind, grind, grind
9. demob, ecm
10. Ammo

Another reason for the emptiness of the world is basicly the fact that everything but fighting or gathering is done docked up in terminal. A major design flaw for a ground based MMO. IMHO the only reason i need to dock up is to switch my robot and its equip.

look at all the things that are NOT on the terrain while it could fill the islands with many points of intrest and to fight for: Refinery, Recycling plant, Factory, Repairshop, Market.
Even in your gamma base you have to build those buildings seperately, but you access them all from within a central building...

i dont need to mention the flaws of the tiered module system, do i?

the TL:DR version ..

Annihilator wrote:

Whine Whine Whine its all I ever do ...




So things take too long but you want to eliminate all the stuff you do in terminal and make players physically travel to the facility they need ... I can see how the extra logistics of all that makes perfect sense.

t4 lwf are must have ... unless youre a plated bot I guess ...
Sen amps are a must have, or 15s lock time ... dont those cancel each other out?
And what the hell is 3?


Thankfully you are a player and have no influence on game design.

Perhaps simply restore the original alpha triangle?  Btw Good Post Rex, as usual.

Also as far as the single bot/multiple account .... the only thing the Devs do here to facilitate that is keep the subs cheap, and now with ICE even more so ...

Please name one MMO that allows for a one use-does all character? ... even regular games like BF III, TF, whatever ... they all have classes ... you select a specialization.

No one is forcing anyone to play with more than one account ... but because of the broad depth in this game and the fact there are legitimite areas to specialize in .. by trying to go solo its just not as efficient.

Making this game too damn easy will not help the playerbase. This game is an investment, its not a twitch game ... 

Also maybe slightly off topic but I dont have a problem with new accounts getting an extra ep boost via Amazon or whatever .. Its simply a marketing feature and thats fine ... beta players got a bonus that I didnt when I joined 7 months later ... but why should I, I wasnt beta.  As far as new players not catching up to older ones ... when I joined I had 20k ep and someone like Syndic or Merkle had 300k ... 15 times as much as I had .... now I have 700k and they have a million ... only 1.3 times more ... its close enough ..

33

(31 replies, posted in General discussion)

Hi, sorry to butt in but I have followed your thread and have figured out the solution.

Please add an "L" as your middle initial.

That is all.

Calio, we have crossed paths in game, I have enjoyed the limited interactions we have had.  I believe you are one of the few who play this game with a single account for a long period of time. I have always found you play with respect to others, if you leave it will be a loss for the game.  That said please read my point carefully.  Although PLEX in EvE helped you stay in the game, it did not bring a great deal of extra $ to the game developers. Thats my point.  I played EvE for a full year with 4 accounts and did not pay one dollar.  At 15 buck per month per account thats $720 in resubs EvE did not get from me. So what if they got it from some idiot who wanted a Titan now ... point is what they got up front from the person who wanted something and paid real life money, they lost from me over time in sub fees because I could generate enough isk to play for free because I could buy the PLEX.

35

(14 replies, posted in General discussion)

Every sandbox I ever played in has walls to hold the sand in.

Every game needs to have the walls, the framework for gameplay. Its what you do inside the walls, within the framework, that makes it a sandbox game.

Although I've never played it, if sandbox = no rules then maybe the closest game that does this is MineCraft?



So, back on topic ... I'm hoping we have great wars on Gamma.

My 2 cents, simplified:

Multiboxing ... 100 player corp = 100 paid subs
100 player corp with 2 alts each = 300 paid subs, devs win.

PLEX: Every one sold = $ for devs
PLEX: Every one used = no $ from resub for devs.
Net effect = 0

Why dont people see this?

Some general points ....
- Crosstraining sucks. miners are lousy pvpers, subs are cheap .... why not multibox?
- Yes, buying subs in 6 or 12 month increments is cheaper than one month PLEX increments, but overall not enough to make huge money
- PLEX in EvE is just CCP selling isk, nothing more
- PLEX in EvE did NOTHING to improve the $ for CCP

37

(85 replies, posted in Events)

Any vegetation at all? ... ie, does pefectly plain mean no?

38

(34 replies, posted in General discussion)

The only reason to take your own Sap would be to downgrade your outpost facilities to free up a attribute point to invest in another facility. Of course you would decrease your stability by doing this so you would have to successfully defend the next one or 2 Saps in order to get the attribute point back to spend.

For sure I2.0 is  going to make Beta a lot more active.

39

(34 replies, posted in General discussion)

Not sure why the scanning thing is such a big issue. First of all the Beta island are all scanned regularly by either randoms, owning corps or enemies. Secondly, the Devs had to create a system that caters to all timezones, having random times for Saps for all outposts means there is a good chance when "you" log on you will probably have a few Saps in your timezone to raid, defend, or capture. This plus the fact that one single Sap cannot make you lose your outpost means you can afford to miss one or 2 when you are not online. This really favours everyone. Holding your own outpost and getting the stability higher means better facilities at you and your corp friends disposal. Its called incentive. With so many Saps occuring at different times you really don't know what to expect in the way of a fight, could be nothing, could be a small roaming gang intent on the loot can, could be a huge blob. This can only promote more smaller scale spontaneous fights .... How is that bad?

I believe the old system meant you could expect a huge blob at the Sap time and its nice to have a variety of combat available (althought the last big fight at Ft Douglas (I think) a few days ago was awesome).

Will have to wait and see once it rolls out, all I see here is a much wider type and variety of conflict and way more strategy involved. Why is this a bad thing?

Purgatory your last post perfectly illistrates my point and proves you are completely missing it. When you did your kernel research for your maufacturing kernels were much more in supply. The reduction in drop rate served to make it harder for others to catch up to you, thus extending your market monopoly time. Sure the beacons help with the recent nerf (and as you instantly jump and point this out, of course) but beacons have a much greater effect on corp research than solo players. They still have the kernel nerf as most won't have the dps to complete a beacon.

The point since you missed it is take the good with the bad.  Lengthy and repeated forum complaints about every little thing that might possibly upset your bottom line is not constructive. And no one is forcing you to play ..... If you left I'm sure we can still find whatever products you make from someone else.

The fact that the Devs are doing something for the community with a little bling and some epeen to celebrate the anniversary of this game is enough. Enjoy it.

Some people will complain about simply everything.

Before I joined WAR I played pretty much solo for 4 months and made more than enough nic to afford pretty much anything.  This despite TOG regularly chowing down on my Norgalis fields. big_smile

Its simply a corp v corp tourney, of course this doesnt help individuals. Its not meant to.  But the treasure hunt is more geared to individuals, so do that and enjoy it. Its part of the Devs celebrating a year of game, relax.  And as far as the prizes go, the (adjusted) T4p items will have a minor ripple on the market at best. It wont "ruin" someone's precious market empire in the long run.  By the same token, the recent kernel nerfs have done much more to protect someone's empire, but I dont recall the same player  whining over that.  But I guess everyone only looks after their own interests.  Enjoy and make do with what the Devs, and the game gives you. Some minor tweaks, sure, but the amount of whining on these forums over every little aspect of any announcement is just ridiculous.

I am looking forward to the tourney and the patch smile And of course WAR will win the tourney, biatches! cool