1 (edited by Drahkar 2012-07-03 15:44:33)

Topic: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

I'll start by saying that while the gamma patch is nothing short of pure awesome, it's clearly not the ultimate solution to Perpetuum's activity problem. Yes, perpetuum ahs an activity problem! yikes

What gamma did accomplish : it added much needed sand to the sandbox and made the PvP aspect of the game even better. That's great, but I hope you devs realize it's like adding high quality furniture to a house with no roof. No worries though, that can be fixed. I'm writing this hoping it will be fixed as soon as possible, rather than the PvP content being overworked when it's not the bottleneck.

I think anyone who expects Perpetuum to succeed without a carebear population is at least somewhat delusional. I also think any reasonable person will agree that in its current state, Perpetuum doesn't encourage carebears to stick around.

I'll be making a lot of Eve Online references in this post so if you have no clue what Eve is, stop living under a rock.

Defining a carebear : The word carebear is being used in this post in reference to a player who is not only uninterested in PvP but most likely unwilling to face the risk of PvP. Looking at Eve, some important types of carebears are Empire (alpha) industrialists/miners and Empire PvE players/mission runners. Someone willing to spend the majority of his time mining, producing or NPC farming on a beta or gamma island is not, in my opinion, a carebear, as he is not avert to the risk of PvP.

Why carebears are good : Carebears bring many benefits even to a game that is meant primarily as a PvP sandbox. They bring revenue, they bring population, they bring market activity. They are easily pleased by grindy content. They give eachother all the interaction they need to stick around by banding together in carebear corps and working towards bigger carebear goals. They give the game visibility, they bring their carebear friends along. They all have a small percentage chance of being converted into a PvPer. They all have a small percentage chance of interacting with PvPers (beyond market interaction).

What carebears need : Long term goals, shiny expensive toys, grindy content. Perpetuum is very lacking in all of those. While PvPers strive for bloody fights, building a reputation and working towards their corporation's territorial success, carebears don't have those incentives. What keeps a carebear playing? For a mission runner, it's simply getting to the next step. The next step in PvE challenge (tougher missions) and probably even more important, the next shiny bot.

Perpetuum's shiny bots max out at heavies (or heavies mk2). This is a problem. Acquiring a heavy mech is not difficult or grindy enough to be a long term goal. If you think it is, then ask yourself is it ok if once someone acquires a heavy mech and uses it for a few weeks, they unsubscribe and quit? No it's not. That would mean carebears stick around a single month, two if we're lucky. Comparing to Eve, is it ok if a carebear quits once they have a Raven, then Navy Raven, then Golem, then a Rattlesnake or a Nightmare? Yes. Hopefully they stay, but if not they still played, contributed and payed for quite a while.

Is this problem hard to fix? No. It may sound like it, because you may think adding new bots affects the balance of PvP too much, and thus requires a lot of work and a lot of planning. The trick is cost-ineffective bots, cool bots, vanity bots, PvE specialized bots. Bots that are a slight boost in effectiveness for a carebear, for a slightly ridiculous cost. An example from Eve online : faction battleships. Are faction battleships in Eve a problem to balance for PvP? No, not really, because they're not cost effective and they're killed just as easily when primaried by a fleet. They are, however, extremely awesome for a carebear, and they are way more of a long term goal than Perpetuum's heavy or heavy Mk2. Perpetuum needs bigger bots. Cost ineffective bots. Expensive bot variants with a slightly different look and (possibly) a very small increase in combat power. A Raven in Eve only serves as a carebear's goal for a short while. After they get one, they don't quit, because they want that Navy Raven, that Golem or even a Rattlesnake.

Once that's done, all you need to do is give carebears something to shoot at with their shiny toys and they're hooked. Don't make it too complicated. Look at missions in Eve, they're initially a challenge, but they're not annoying to find or inconvenient to run repeatedly. You just hit accept mission and warp to it. The carebears do it, they feel powerful and awesome as their shiny pimped out ship destroys everything in sight and they stick around to do it some more. This shouldn't be too hard to add, perhaps you just need a few areas of land where you have NPCs using the new bigger bots that were added.

Voila! With a bit of advertising (or get your game on Steam already, ffs), you have a carebear population, along with all the benefits! Carebear mission runners and carebear industrialists need eachother and sustain eachother. They also both benefit the PvP population to some extent.

Another problem to tackle, alongside adding shiny toys for PvE players to drool over, is fixing the barrier of entry into industry. I'm reffering to kernels, but that's another story entirely and I'll leave that rant to someone with more industry experience.

Until then, there's very few people online, so more people get bored and stop logging in aswell. Off to play Eve, I need to grind towards a Bhaalgorn for my collection of relatively useless and terribly expensive but very cool looking pimp ships. tongue

AXE JOKE ECORP N-A CIR

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Interference sensibility can be good balancing factor for alpha-carebear-bots. Like they are awesome and mighty on alphas but suffering on betas/gammas. That would be next class and that would need harder spawns/missions/whatever PvE stuff you will add.

Have a productive day, runner!
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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

I agree with this.  Well written.

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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

+1, We've got some good fights from Gamma so far and while I've never played EVE those all sound like pretty good ideas.   I'd just like to see more variety in bots in general personally they be could nearly the same thing as existing ones just to have more choices like 3 of every standard bot for every faction at every tier would be good, right now there is 1 and then a mk2 which is a different tier imo.  I'm sure people have tons of good ideas for PvE content they could add here and probably already exists in the forum archives.

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

I think the developers are averse to adding any new bots of pretty much any kind sadly because after all the times they have talked about it nothing ever happened.

Feel free to prove me wrong devs o/

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Good post Drahkar.

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

It makes sense *picks up his batphone*

+1
-Confucius

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

good post. i think we had similar talks before but non was so well writen.

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

I think we already hinted at places that after gamma is out (and the fires have somewhat settled...), we'll be working on PvE content. I can only reinforce this statement, as we're already in the middle of implementing some of the new mechanics needed for our plans.

What these are, you'll probably get to know soon.

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Now Dev Zoom when you say fires do you mean m2s petitions to have arkhes nerfed, cans secretly requiring the ok button be pressed when entering a code, elimanating the ability to defense territory you build in and other knee jerk reactions?

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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

If thats the fire that supposed to settle, it'll look like a match compared to the bonfire just around the corner... lol

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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Drahkar wrote:

and made the PvP aspect of the game even better.

This is where you went wrong

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

OMG, I may have accidentaly fallen into the small percent of converted carbears, although, at heart I'm still a carebear - I may happen to be a bear on bath salts occasionally when you threaten my cubs/foundations >:|

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Damn good arguments. Well written.

+1

Sparking to other games

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

My 5 "CareBear" accounts expire next month, already gone and playing something else,

too little too late...., and the outlook is sloooow from what i see.

/Wave  roll

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Arga wrote:

OMG, I may have accidentaly fallen into the small percent of converted carbears, although, at heart I'm still a carebear - I may happen to be a bear on bath salts occasionally when you threaten my cubs/foundations >:|

Woah.

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Drahkar good points +1,

A good 'carebear' population, is the foundation this game should be built upon.

Easy and quick access to safe PVE content, varying degrees of hardness to cater for the casual and hardcore players.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

DEV Zoom wrote:

I think we already hinted at places that after gamma is out ... we'll be working on PvE content.

Land, land and more land. At least double the current alpha/beta land for starters. In a recent post of mine, Zoom, you said that the DEV Team didn't feel the game needed more land at this time. I disagree strongly.

More Alpha means a balance can be struck between PvE and Industry on different islands for "carebears" (the subject of this topic and important given the new dynamic ore fields).

More Beta (in particular outposts) the more realistic new corporations ambitions to get a foothold there - especially if accompanied by a new stability mechanic which makes it harder to take an outpost the more you already own.

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Ludlow Bursar wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

I think we already hinted at places that after gamma is out ... we'll be working on PvE content.

Land, land and more land. At least double the current alpha/beta land for starters. In a recent post of mine, Zoom, you said that the DEV Team didn't feel the game needed more land at this time. I disagree strongly.

More Alpha means a balance can be struck between PvE and Industry on different islands for "carebears" (the subject of this topic and important given the new dynamic ore fields).

More Beta (in particular outposts) the more realistic new corporations ambitions to get a foothold there - especially if accompanied by a new stability mechanic which makes it harder to take an outpost the more you already own.

No no and no and no no no no no more alpha lands or takes longer to get across the world

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20

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Ludlow Bursar wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

I think we already hinted at places that after gamma is out ... we'll be working on PvE content.

Land, land and more land. At least double the current alpha/beta land for starters. In a recent post of mine, Zoom, you said that the DEV Team didn't feel the game needed more land at this time. I disagree strongly.

More Alpha means a balance can be struck between PvE and Industry on different islands for "carebears" (the subject of this topic and important given the new dynamic ore fields).

More Beta (in particular outposts) the more realistic new corporations ambitions to get a foothold there - especially if accompanied by a new stability mechanic which makes it harder to take an outpost the more you already own.

Cool, but 1st get like 1k ppl online and active

"you're not in an MMO to make friends, you're there to make enemies smile"

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Dan wrote:

Cool, but 1st get like 1k ppl online and active

I think the reverse, land first, people will follow. Get the land and give PvE content a space to thrive as OP suggests and DEVs have hinted and then 1K people online is more likely than on the current land space.

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Ludlow Bursar wrote:
Dan wrote:

Cool, but 1st get like 1k ppl online and active

I think the reverse, land first, people will follow. Get the land and give PvE content a space to thrive as OP suggests and DEVs have hinted and then 1K people online is more likely than on the current land space.

Doesn't matter how much land is there if no one knows it is there

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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

+1 to the Origional post.   I like the  idea of a PvE strong PvP poor bot, very shiney nevry expensive.  I would suggest one for each faction

I do not think theres strong enough of a PvE player base, yet, to warrent another island but bots like them could be used in an instance (group / Solo), that would create the mission (make it a randomly generated kill "target's name"), the risk, and the reward all in one shot while leaving the world the size it is. Once the PvE player base is brought up enough to warrent more islands I believe the DEV's have already said they will add them.

To tie it all together, I would say the new PvE bot should require gamma ores, and not able to accept any mod lower than say TL3 (bringing more beta ore into the mix I believe)  To help control the cost of the bot (keeping it high) I would say it should only be able to be "prototyped" and the only kernels to give the knowledge required for it would be top tier mech or heavy mech bots of the same color

Hey.

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

As I've also posted that, while I wish to play in Beta/Gamma, Alpha play is vital to the game's health and prosperity as a whole, this is an obvious

+1

from me.

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

+1
1 week into playing - Update the PVE content ASAP!  Potential is here, harness it and watch it grow! 

Starter area needs to be exciting and full of life!  make it happen!