876 (edited by Burial 2013-09-11 20:25:58)

Re: Spark Teleports

1. Five. Every other level per Spark teleportation skill.

2. 30-minute cooldown after death in both PVE and PVP. No undocking, but can Spark around.

3. Increase PVP flag to 15 minutes.

4. Move Epriton to Betas.

877

Re: Spark Teleports

Celebro wrote:
Arga wrote:

There are so many new sandbox MMO's in the pipelines out there that offer better ...


I still remain skeptical of these other MMO's.

*shrug*

Perp's been out 3 years already, look at how far Eve has come in that time (it's closest competitor). Eve's success is going to draw more interest to the genre, and it's only a matter of time until something releases to take advantage of that underserved market.

Wildstar is introducing some really good mechanics into the market, TheRepopluation is going to be a significant draw on the sci-fi pvp genre, and another handful of alpha's based on minecraft. Will any of these pull Eve players away, maybe not, but it's likely they will put a serious choice in front of people looking to enter the sci-fi sandbox; and these are the players Perp needs to get.

Re: Spark Teleports

Arga wrote:
Celebro wrote:
Arga wrote:

There are so many new sandbox MMO's in the pipelines out there that offer better ...


I still remain skeptical of these other MMO's.

*shrug*

Perp's been out 3 years already, look at how far Eve has come in that time (it's closest competitor). Eve's success is going to draw more interest to the genre, and it's only a matter of time until something releases to take advantage of that underserved market.

Wildstar is introducing some really good mechanics into the market, TheRepopluation is going to be a significant draw on the sci-fi pvp genre, and another handful of alpha's based on minecraft. Will any of these pull Eve players away, maybe not, but it's likely they will put a serious choice in front of people looking to enter the sci-fi sandbox; and these are the players Perp needs to get.

Well, I am sure that some people care about your opinions of the scifi mmo landscape. It has no place in this thread. Go write a blog or something so the rest of us dont have to listen to your ramblings.

Thanks in advance

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

Scarab Kill Count:2

Re: Spark Teleports

If force projection is an issue, which I am not convinced it is. I propose a few changes after or at the same time as mission revamp. I believe that a new mission system would need to take these things into account to prevent any issues.

1. Remove ability to spark teleport to public beta terminals, ICS-B, ASI-B, and TMB.
2. You may only spark teleport to Beta terminals owned by your corporation.
3. 15 min spark cooldown upon death.
4. Leave available spark locations at 10.
5. Epriton is beta only resource.

This would help prevent entire alliances from holding and defending all outposts, as it will be more difficult for corps who dont own outposts to defend them.

It will give corporations a bigger reason to hold an outpost.

It will prevent the ability to jump around and run a detector on all islands hunting miners unless you own an outpost on every island.

It will stop you from continually engaging at a fight on a beta, unless your homepoint is set to the location of the battle. You could still bloodspark to a public beta terminal. But of course at the expense of being able to blood spark anywhere else.

Still gives people the ability to spark to their gamma bases without penalty. (A needed feature imo, to promote life on gamma.) And still the ability to spark to alpha and interzone into beta for pvp. However the alpha outpost locations can still be scouted and interzone beacons killed as many will probly use this tactic. Making movement of large forces detectable and harassed.

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

Scarab Kill Count:2

880 (edited by Insidious Rex 2013-09-11 21:06:33)

Re: Spark Teleports

Shadowmine wrote:

If force projection is an issue, which I am not convinced it is. I propose a few changes after or at the same time as mission revamp. I believe that a new mission system would need to take these things into account to prevent any issues.

1. Remove ability to spark teleport to public beta terminals, ICS-B, ASI-B, and TMB.
2. You may only spark teleport to Beta terminals owned by your corporation.
.

Number 1 does not prevent overall issue. it only removes locations that are TOTALLY unrestricted. However, it's conceivable that removing the public spark locations on beta actually make the probelm worse. Now all of beta can be monopolized by one power. As long as a greater force can take outposts, one by one, they can then easily continue to control them afterward with sparks. Logistically difficult to take, but logistically easy to keep and control. Again, logistically difficult to take but logistically easy to keep and control. One by one a stronger organization could come in and snatch up STC bases for example. Once all are controlled they ALL stay controlled until another bigger fish is created in the ocean.

Sparks make it possible for the Biggest fish to always control the entire ocean

Ok.

Re: Spark Teleports

There is nothing you can do to SpT that can effect the ability of the largest corp in the game being able to control all the outposts. Including the removal of SpT. That issue must be addressed another way, imo.

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

Scarab Kill Count:2

882 (edited by Insidious Rex 2013-09-11 21:10:00)

Re: Spark Teleports

Shadowmine wrote:

There is nothing you can do to SpT that can effect the ability of the largest corp in the game being able to control all the outposts. Including the removal of SpT. That issue must be addressed another way, imo.

Possibly, but not without much more difficulty

The Biggest Fish will always dominate in general, especially his local neighbors. But he does not have to dominate Globally. Logistics and Organization and Leadership and Motivation are hurdles to projecting power over long distances for extended periods of time. Or at least they should be hurdles. Sparks flatten those hurdles. You may come around. I see you coming...

Re: Spark Teleports

Then add the provision that a corporation can only own 1 beta outpost per island maximum.

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

Scarab Kill Count:2

Re: Spark Teleports

Shadowmine wrote:

Then add the provision that a corporation can only own 1 beta outpost per island maximum.

Sir, I knew it! You are on the right track. I don't know that that is the solution, especially considering the existence of alt corps. The solution is a difficult one as so many positives can be wiped if sparks are nerfed the wrong way or without other enhancements.

I think the solution is probably multiple tweaks, not just one.

Re: Spark Teleports

I am a firm believer that a global cooldown is NOT a good solution. And while you could have an alt corp take over a station, it would only allow members of the alt corp to spark there. Not a terribly useful thing for anything other than scanning sap times or scooping loot.

I think these changes would help Beta islands become the furtile hunting grounds we all would like them to be, tbh.

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

Scarab Kill Count:2

Re: Spark Teleports

Shadowmine wrote:

I am a firm believer that a global cooldown is NOT a good solution. And while you could have an alt corp take over a station, it would only allow members of the alt corp to spark there. Not a terribly useful thing for anything other than scanning sap times or scooping loot.

I think these changes would help Beta islands become the furtile hunting grounds we all would like them to be, tbh.

So part of your solution would be to allow ONLY corp members to place sparks in Corp owned Beta outposts?

And only allow corps to own one Beta outpost?

I suppose with a standings requirement at Beta IIs where positive with one means negative with the others could supplement this path.

Could be workable, but that likely comes with a whole host of unintended consequences with regard to Beta base ownership and alliances.

And I'm sure there are still advocates out there who want Alliance mechanics.

Its not easy.

For me I think the best solution is limiting number of sparks to One or Two unrestricted sparks. Then perhaps allow a few others with cool downs or distance restrictions.

I'm not sure, I just hope that after this thread ZOOM sees the issue (as he seemed to indicate he did not). As long as the Devs understand the issue they can work out the solution mechanics in accordance with their own vision. If that vision is easy global domination, then so be it.

887 (edited by Burial 2013-09-11 22:41:14)

Re: Spark Teleports

Can you define the problem as precisely as possible?

Re: Spark Teleports

I would remove the ability to spark teleport on Beta islands completely, except to an outpost your CORPORATION controls.

I would only allow a corporation to hold 1 outpost per beta island. (I am not sure about only one outpost in total, that seems to be too big of an artificial limitation arbitrarily placed upon corporations.)

Alliance mechanics are still there, it just doesn't allow allies to spark around betas all the time. It would make beta someplace you HAVE to travel to, unless your corp has a station there. And you can still have sparks at allies gamma bases. Which may actually make the gamma islands that are within interzone reach of betas a more happening place to be and stage from.

Yet again, I think global cool downs or distance restrictions are not a good idea. To me this isn't  about nerfing spark teleport. It is about balancing Beta's and making them more enticing to live and pvp on.

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

Scarab Kill Count:2

889

Re: Spark Teleports

Shadowmine wrote:

*shrug* seems to cover that too

890

Re: Spark Teleports

Here is an another solution. Limit spark tp's to all the alphas and beta main terminals only. The rest OP's, including gamma ones, your corp should own to be able to set a target. Then increase pvp flag to 15 min, and remove bloodsparking at all. No other restrictions are necessary with that.

Have a productive day, runner!
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891

Re: Spark Teleports

This is great, do tell me more about this OP blood sparking.

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Re: Spark Teleports

I feel like this.

893

Re: Spark Teleports

Lemon wrote:

This is great, do tell me more about this OP blood sparking.

Hey, but ppl do not want enemies to get fast in one place...bloodsparking allows that since release, but noone calls for cooldowns. Strange, isn't it?

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

894

Re: Spark Teleports

Line wrote:
Lemon wrote:

This is great, do tell me more about this OP blood sparking.

Hey, but ppl do not want enemies to get fast in one place...bloodsparking allows that since release, but noone calls for cooldowns. Strange, isn't it?

It's because you can't blood spark to any betas.  Your only allowed to spark to ONE location.  I wouldn't assume you thought your post all the way through.  Try to atleast use critical thinking skills some.

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Re: Spark Teleports

Arga ... You have the ability to collect as many Saps as STC can ... Not owning an outpost does not make it impossible to collect Sap Loot.

Celebro ... How many times do you SpT between your Gamma operation and Alpha daily?

For the PvPer's ... The simple fact is SpT helps with force projection, but it is NOT THE ROOT CAUSE OF PVP IMBALANCE. Its a very small factor in the entire PvP mechanic. This is why a global cooldown would solve very little in the way of balancing PvP while at the same time punishing every other player simply playing the game.

The game world is simply too small to allow more than 2 entities to establish and expand. If EvE universe and player population is an example, this game would need 100 islands.

The game does not have the current minimum population to properly have intended game mechanics work as intended.

It may be a sandbox game but there are hard limitations ... It is a business for the devs, it needs conflict to consume resources and necessitate market and industry. It needs to have all levels of gameplay content for all levels of players. This is why a noob can snatch Sap loot but a change in outpost ownership takes a concentrated effort.

Dumbing down mechanics so single and new players, or low number players are able to defeat larger or more established corps is not the way to make this game flourish.

SpT is not the problem you guys make it out to be. Its a great mechanic to move around in a world where travel is tedious at best. A simple cooldown equivalent to a mobile tele charging time is all thats needed if ANY COOLDOWN is actually needed.

Rex! Might not see you in game but awesome to see you here in any form smile

Re: Spark Teleports

Ville wrote:
Line wrote:
Lemon wrote:

This is great, do tell me more about this OP blood sparking.

Hey, but ppl do not want enemies to get fast in one place...bloodsparking allows that since release, but noone calls for cooldowns. Strange, isn't it?

It's because you can't blood spark to any betas.  Your only allowed to spark to ONE location.  I wouldn't assume you thought your post all the way through.  Try to atleast use critical thinking skills some.

Try to think at least two moves ahead. I can use 5, 10, whatever more accounts with different bloodsparks and be everywhere, really everywhere, because bloodsparking works on closed stations too. That was one of the "Restrictors" fraction arguments - use multiple accounts to get more advantage for SpT. However, if it works for SpT, it works for bloodspark too.

897

Re: Spark Teleports

Cassius wrote:

Arga ... You have the ability to collect as many Saps as STC can ... Not owning an outpost does not make it impossible to collect Sap Loot.

There's a lot of room between impossible and unworkable.

Re: Spark Teleports

Arga wrote:
Cassius wrote:

Arga ... You have the ability to collect as many Saps as STC can ... Not owning an outpost does not make it impossible to collect Sap Loot.

There's a lot of room between impossible and unworkable.

I have a character who has less than 1000 ep invested after creation. He has no sparks. He is not in STC.
He uses a light bot with T1 gear (except the lwf). He collects more sap loot than any of my other characters when I want him to.

I did this deliberately to see if a day old player was able to Ninja Saps. Answer: yes.
And he's not know to my alliance so it's not like he's given free access.

Try playing the game and understanding exactly what is possible and what is not.
Too many people in this thread are arguing to change SpT because of the way they THINK it's being used, when the reality is different. Most of the same people are also not actively playing.

Before you go on about STC only cares about protecting their advantage, several of us are arguing in favour of Epi on Beta only. Since we currently control most Gammas and we can easily mine Epi afk in complete safety, why would we want to remove this particular advantage? Because it's much better for the game, simple.

The same applies to SpT ... Nothing suggested so far will result in a better game, that's why none if us want to see anything beyond a simple 3-5 minute timer, nor do we think its necessary.

899 (edited by Celebro 2013-09-12 19:37:04)

Re: Spark Teleports

Cassius wrote:

Celebro ... How many times do you SpT between your Gamma operation and Alpha daily?

Yes, I spark daily to alpha just to set market orders and some manufacturing that's all nothing OP with that, but the questions you just asked tells me you don't get the point, including the whole post makes no sense at all.

Cassius wrote:

I have a character who has less than 1000 ep invested after creation. He has no sparks. He is not in STC.
He uses a light bot with T1 gear (except the lwf). He collects more sap loot than any of my other characters when I want him to.

I can do that too np,  now try that with 500+ players online.

RIP PERPETUUM

900

Re: Spark Teleports

Cassius wrote:

stuff

If STC was TRYING to get the SAP loot, you wouldn't be able to ninja it.

As with everything else in this thread, the examples your using are how it is now, with such a low population that NOTHING really matters.

Which is why my 'blog' was germane to this thread. How things 'work' now with a dozen active players isn't how it will 'work' with more; because I did play when there was 'more', and I don't want to play with 'less'.