851 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2013-09-11 17:39:54)

  • JOKE
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

You know the time you need to show up too many hours ahead. You can either Spark or suicide to Alpha or even walk. Even if two important SAPs happen at the same time and you loose 1, you get it back right on the next cycle.

Sounds like a lot of QQ for your own shortcomings Ville..

Ville wrote:

Not a single thing was deleted.  It was deconned haul into the second terminal than 7 scarab pilots made 11 trips smile .  So keep trolling away making this thread even more weighed down with STC tears.

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … -comrades/ lol

7 * 11 * 900U = 69,3K U.. quite a lot short on the 125K U of stuff. But we all know you are just lying and you didn't do any of that.

852 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2013-09-11 17:56:32)

  • JOKE
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

Lol I missed that one, you guys live in Imidero (last I heard) and defend Moyar outpost, how the heck do you do that without sparks? No need to walk with sparks.

Why take Moyar in the first place?

Because to defend there is no need to walk, only once to stuff the OP up.

FYI: Imidero and Moyar are way over 100k KM apart.

RIP PERPETUUM
  • JOKE
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

We would suicide to Tellesis and protect from there.

854 Reply by Ville

  • PHM
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

I must admit.  I did delete the alpha minerals.  You got me Burial!  Such a crippling lose of all that Titan Ore!  That one set me back quite a bit it was such a crushing blow!  Of course you need to ask Kenzoid, Goffer and qwerty since they hauled the rest of the evening.  I only sparked back a couple days later to 15 field cans and God only knows how many arkhes.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

855 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2013-09-11 18:07:23)

  • JOKE
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

Burial wrote:

We would suicide to Tellesis and protect from there.

That's actually an exploit in my opinion.

RIP PERPETUUM
  • JOKE
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

Celebro wrote:
Burial wrote:

We would suicide to Tellesis and protect from there.

That's actually an exploit.

Where did you hear it's exploit?

857 Reply by Ville

  • PHM
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

Burial wrote:

We would suicide to Tellesis and protect from there.

Which might not be able to form up entirely from there and you get picked off through a gate OR gate delays with scouts or suicide armor mechs.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

858 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2013-09-11 18:09:10)

  • JOKE
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

Burial wrote:
Celebro wrote:
Burial wrote:

We would suicide to Tellesis and protect from there.

That's actually an exploit.

Where did you hear it's exploit?

Death should not be a way to travel, its an opinion, I doubt the Devs intended the mechanic that way.

RIP PERPETUUM

859 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2013-09-11 18:12:12)

  • JOKE
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

Ville wrote:
Burial wrote:

We would suicide to Tellesis and protect from there.

Which might not be able to form up entirely from there and you get picked off through a gate OR gate delays with scouts or suicide armor mechs.

More likely you would just stay docked, scared, weeping on forums for changes.

Celebro wrote:

Death should not be a way to travel, its an opinion, I doubt the Devs intended the mechanic that way.

Could be but until the devs actually remove spark teleportation and say that suicide traveling is an exploit, nothing actually helps for your problem. Of course at this point the better have some other means of traveling available or we are all in for a very grim future.

860 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2013-09-11 18:12:33)

  • JOKE
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

Ville wrote:
Burial wrote:

We would suicide to Tellesis and protect from there.

Which might not be able to form up entirely from there and you get picked off through a gate OR gate delays with scouts or suicide armor mechs.

+1 still looks to me like an exploit.

RIP PERPETUUM

861 Reply by Ville

  • PHM
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

Burial wrote:
Ville wrote:
Burial wrote:

We would suicide to Tellesis and protect from there.

Which might not be able to form up entirely from there and you get picked off through a gate OR gate delays with scouts or suicide armor mechs.

More likely you would just stay docked, scared.

I'm not STC.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.
  • -133-
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

Doom Beamer wrote:
Rex Amelius wrote:

Being able to be in 10 strategic locations almost instantly is a HUGE advantage for a group that has numerical superiority.

Rex Amelius wrote:

is a HUGE advantage for a group that has numerical superiority.

Rex Amelius wrote:

for a group that has numerical superiority.

So thaaaats the point of this 33-paged epic poem.

Yes, that is the point of this 33-page thread. You nailed it. But according to your following statement you nailed it completely by accident.

Doom Beamer wrote:

Let me translate it: "Dear DEVs, once we had numbers, and spark tp was our advantage. We failed to hold those numbers, and lost them, and as a result, lost that advantage. Now please, remove it from those other guys too, because we don't want them to have it and can't get the numbers."

This is a perfect example of missing the issue and focusing on the corp tag. Rex Amelius (me) has never been part of a dominating corp or alliance. I have been on ops with many of the larger corps in the game (not PHM/CIR) but only temporarily. While I have played there have always been bigger fish in the pond. So my points recently about sparks are motivated by an overarching vision of the mechanic, not some petty resentment for not having something I "lost."

Perhaps you are just trolling along with many other STC & Friends (STC&F) in this thread. I usually ignore trolls or troll them back. Actually engaging in logical discussions with trolls is what they live for (that and tears). In this case I'm not convinced all STC&F are tolling. But I do think there is some strange cool-aid seeping into their well.

Again, its the mechanic, stupid

  • JOKE
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

Insidious Rex, basically what I and many others are saying here is that cooldown wouldn't fix anything. A lot of the mechanics need to be changed in order for power projection to slow down even a little, not to mention there actually needs to be more players who are willing to take losses and fight.

  • JOKE
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

Burial wrote:

Insidious Rex, basically what I and many others are saying here is that cooldown wouldn't fix anything.

I guess if you think it does not fix anything, then you won't mind if they change it either to have cool down, but here you are defending not to be changed. Anyways why u need it, you have blood sparks?

RIP PERPETUUM

865 Reply by Ville

  • PHM
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

Celebro wrote:
Burial wrote:

Insidious Rex, basically what I and many others are saying here is that cooldown wouldn't fix anything.

I guess if you think it does not fix anything, then you won't mind if they change it either to have cool down, but here you are defending not to be changed. Anyways why u need it, you have blood sparks?

Yeah, you COULD just come from alpha...  Like you just said.  Glad you feel it won't change much!

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.
  • JOKE
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

Good luck with your effort!

867 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2013-09-11 18:43:37)

  • JOKE
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

Hypothetically if there are no sparking right now, and some one attacks Moyar OP , would STC go and defend with blood sparks? I really doubt that...

RIP PERPETUUM

868 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2013-09-11 19:00:14)

  • JOKE
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

Burial wrote:

...
I think current game state and outpost mechanics magnify that a lot more than sparks though.

Current game state is that PVP is lacking and people would come and defend it just to get a small chance for it. Would they come and defend again after losing few bots and being trapped few times? I don't know and no-one is testing it out either.

  • -133-
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

Burial wrote:

A lot of the mechanics need to be changed in order for power projection to slow down even a little,

Burial, I'm sensing some logic pouring into your tone and that's a good thing. But I'm not sure what other mechanics need to be "slowed down." Pretending that Sparks did not exist, I would argue that Transportation mechanics need to be enhanced, via Highway Networks, better Teleport Networks, and my long time wishlist item Targetable Teleport (major balancing reqs required).

I'm not talking about Force Projection in general. I'm talking about Easy Force Projection.

Burial wrote:

not to mention there actually needs to be more players who are willing to take losses and fight.

Actually, a lack of PvP willingness is a Potential Symptom of Easy Force Projection. Knowing a larger-than-me force can be around the corner in minutes is very much a disincentive for outclassed, outgunned groups to fight. But in today's Perpetuum, the Number One reason for lack of PvP is obviously the Population.

Burial wrote:

Insidious Rex, basically what I and many others are saying here is that cooldown wouldn't fix anything.

I'm not convinced yet that Global Cooldown is the best fix, either. I'm hoping their is a smarter, more surgical fix aimed at the heart of Easy Force Projection. But if you, Burial, take another look at the consistent issue in this thread and stop focusing on corp dialogue banter, you will see that NOT everyone is advocating Cooldown as the Solution.

Understanding the Issue..
All advocates of a nerf will agree: The Problem is Easy Force Projection
The worry is more about the magnification of that issue with large population ...in the FUTURE post Steam. We all love the ease of moving around freely. But liking it is not a sufficient argument for keeping it in the face of it's problems.

Understanding the Solution
All advocates of a nerf will NOT agree on Solutions, which vary: Global Cooldown (x,y,z hours); Localized Cooldown; Kilometer Limits; non-Deployment from Terminal; PvP Flag Extention; Charge-Up timer; Standings Requirements; surely there were more...

  • *
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

Celebro wrote:

Even if you guys allowed anyone to spark in your OP you have a larger force so you would always win the intrusion.

So the name of the game is ' Who can spark more wins'

Edit: You live in Imidero and have an OP in novastrov, if there were no sparks, and had to walk there to defend you will probably say f*** this Im not defending that OP anymore. But right now its as easy as defending brightstone,
Why should it be the same if its further away?

Actually, almost no one has a spark at dana. We walk in to defend just like everyone else walks there to attack...

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

Scarab Kill Count:2

871 Reply by Arga

  • CIR
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

Spark also makes it very easy to pop-over, scan fro SAP, then show up to collect the loot. How many SAPS is STC looting per day?

Not that it really matters. There are so many new sandbox MMO's in the pipelines out there that offer better ... well, everything, that with the limited staff/time AC is going to need a miracle to entice and hold any sizable population.

Sad face.

872 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2013-09-11 20:02:38)

  • JOKE
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

Insidious Rex wrote:

Burial, I'm sensing some logic pouring into your tone and that's a good thing. But I'm not sure what other mechanics need to be "slowed down." Pretending that Sparks did not exist, I would argue that Transportation mechanics need to be enhanced, via Highway Networks, better Teleport Networks, and my long time wishlist item Targetable Teleport (major balancing reqs required).

I'm not talking about Force Projection in general. I'm talking about Easy Force Projection.

Not sure how much you have been reading, but all these points have been gone over multiple times in this thread.

Thread I made not long ago that sadly didn't lift off is baby step towards that: http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … a-islands/



Insidious Rex wrote:

Actually, a lack of PvP willingness is a Potential Symptom of Easy Force Projection. Knowing a larger-than-me force can be around the corner in minutes is very much a disincentive for outclassed, outgunned groups to fight. But in today's Perpetuum, the Number One reason for lack of PvP is obviously the Population.

Thats true and false, could be argued in both ways.. but the real problem is that Beta's are really rarely used for anything else than SAP loot collection and occasional SAP attack/defense. Hopefully it changes with Epriton change.

Insidious Rex wrote:

I'm not convinced yet that Global Cooldown is the best fix, either. I'm hoping their is a smarter, more surgical fix aimed at the heart of Easy Force Projection. But if you, Burial, take another look at the consistent issue in this thread and stop focusing on corp dialogue banter, you will see that NOT everyone is advocating Cooldown as the Solution.

First of all, you are probably mixing me up with someone. You should read my posts in this thread and see what I've suggested and what my opinions are. Sure, removing sparks would make force projection a bit harder but at the same time, it would make people lives on multi-island Gamma settlements a lot harder too. With Betas you can use blood sparking to get close to them, but with Gammas that's not possible. Cooldown would also change nothing with SAP defence/attacks - you know the time ahead more than enough to come there with any means nessecary.

This has been beaten to death on earlier pages..

Understanding the Issue..
All advocates of a nerf will agree: The Problem is Easy Force Projection
The worry is more about the magnification of that issue with large population ...in the FUTURE post Steam. We all love the ease of moving around freely. But liking it is not a sufficient argument for keeping it in the face of it's problems.

Trust me.. I understand the issue.

I have tried to tackle the issue from other sides too but after 20 pages of trying it becomes pointless. This thread can not be taken seriously anymore.

Another take: http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … beta-saps/

  • JOKE
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

Shadowmine wrote:
Celebro wrote:

Even if you guys allowed anyone to spark in your OP you have a larger force so you would always win the intrusion.

So the name of the game is ' Who can spark more wins'

Edit: You live in Imidero and have an OP in novastrov, if there were no sparks, and had to walk there to defend you will probably say f*** this Im not defending that OP anymore. But right now its as easy as defending brightstone,
Why should it be the same if its further away?

Actually, almost no one has a spark at dana. We walk in to defend just like everyone else walks there to attack...

Wow really? From Imidero? Why don't you spark its easier ?

Let me make clear I am attacking the sparking mechanic. I am using STC as an example, what you do with sparking is up to you, I don't judge just making a point. Worse case scenario is some other corp really pushing spark teleport to the limits, I doubt STC does this. We need to look at worse case situations to determine if it's broken.

RIP PERPETUUM

874 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2013-09-11 19:58:43)

  • JOKE
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

Arga wrote:

There are so many new sandbox MMO's in the pipelines out there that offer better ...


I still remain skeptical of these other MMO's.

RIP PERPETUUM

875 Reply by Jita

  • JOKE
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Spark Teleports

Sparking allows for the infinite availability of forces anywhere on the games map. The only limit to that is the number of sparks which limit the places you can go.

The question then is how many is the right amount. Is what its set at too many, not enough or bang on.

The second point is multiple engagements. Should your death allow you to jump in another bot and reengage?

For me this is about making Pvp about risk. Easy availability of resource makes it possible to engage p much continuously. So where is the risk?

I think risk should be two fold - limited resources and time penalties making dying matter. I'd add a 15 minute death timer and remove infinite spawns.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."