Saha wrote:

Obviously you can argue that this game is not 1v1 based... But then if someone brings 10 grohos to the party, even 15 mesmers wouldn't do too good.

I remember you guys running away with long range fit grophos after you failed an intrusion after the respec and we had mixed party

]Guys if you want a balanced game go play chess. There is not a single MMO that is balanced in the way you want to. Grophos are not the one and only choice for PVP. Nothing is. Except for a super skilled wasp. It's the small god machine

Note: The most significant item that stands out here is the AP usage and recharge, with a recharge rate approx 4.89X GREATER
than the AP usage of all 6 weapons running.  This is unique to the 3 heavy mechs, in that the Gropho is the ONLY heavy mech
that has a recharge rate in excess of the energy expended running weapons.

The second item is the optimal range, even after the 10% reduction in range that
medium ballistic missiles received on 06/17/2011, the Gropho still has the longest optimal range of
any heavy mech, and is also faster than the Seth by almost 6 kph.

Now for the defensive bonuses, and this is where logic breaks down completely.  The Gropho’s weapon 1.43AP sec usage, with a recharge of 7.00 AP/sec,
leaves the Gropho with a recharge of 5.57AP/sec to apply to shield damage absorption, so the low AP usage of missile launches makes sense,
since there is sufficient recharge to handle damage applied to shields.

-Reduce the range further on Grophos.  Thelodica, as the “sniper” or long range specialists, should have the longest base ranges. Also penalize it more for charging shields, so it's on par with the others.

After reading some of the posts, I have noticed some misconceptions about the data, so let’s re-summarize and clarify the issues:

-All calculation were based on only weapons fitted to the heavy mechs, no head slot or leg slot modules were included.  This was to show the base characteristics of each heavy mech
-All calculations were based on pilots having the same skill levels, or in the case of launcher vs. turret, equivalent skills
-All calculations were based on the innate bonuses that apply to each heavy mech, with that heavy mech being fitted with the weapon type it receives bonuses for
-All calculations were based on the maximum range capability of the heavy mech.

To summarize the data:

Gropho
Accumulator recharge                7.00 AP recharged/sec
6X Weapon Accumulator consumption    1.429 AP used/sec
Top speed                    52.00 kph
Using Heat IX Ballistic            589.05 m optimal / 81.18 DPS Seismic

Seth:               
Accumulator recharge time            10.23 AP recharged/sec
6X Weapon Accumulator consumption    51.47 AP used/sec
Top speed                    46.80       
Using Crypto                    514.5 m optimal/ 118 m falloff  134.59 DPS Thermal

Mesmer                   
Accumulator recharge time            8.89 AP recharged/sec
6X Weapon Accumulator consumption    35.29 AP used / sec   
Top speed                    56.16       
Using UDC                    393.7 m optimal / 94.8 m falloff  159.67 DPS Kinetic

What does the data say?:

-Gropho  is the only heavy mech that has an AP surplus when running all 6 weapons
-Gropho has an AP recharge 4.89X greater than it’s weapon usage
-Seth has an accumulator usage for weapons 5.03X it’s AP regen
-Mesmer has an accumulator usage for weapons 3.96X it’s AP regen
-Gropho has the longest innate optimal range
-Seth does more DPS than the Gropho, and Seth is slower than the Gropho by 5.2 kph , which means that a Seth cannot close the distance to effectively appy DPS
-Mesmer does more DPS than the Gropho, and is 4.16 kph faster than the Gropho, and has a 195.35 shorter range than the Gropho
-Mesmer and Seth are turret based, any bump or bush in the landscape will interrupt weapon fire
-Gropho is launcher based, slight landscape rises and bushes do not interrupt weapon fire

Such is the data, not opinion, not point of view. Hard solid data, thus, inarguable  As far as roles in combat, that is defined by head slot and leg slot layout, but certain things will remain true.
-Seth, and Mesmer, will be burning AP like crazy, Gropho will start off with an AP surplus. 
-Seth will not be able to close on the Gropho,
-Mesmer will, but at 4.61 kph speed base. 
-Seth’s shield bonus is unique in the Thelodica line, all other bonuses for Thelodica are either resists or AP regen.
-Gropho is the only heavy mech that has an AP regen surplus to apply to defensive modules.

EDIT:  The recharge per second is based on dividing the AP capacity by the recharge time, but the highest regen actually takes place at 50% of the AP supply.  Once you drop below that point, the regen rate actually slows down, which means on any bot/mech, you want to slow down or stop consumption at 50%.  Effectively, what this means is that you only have the initial 50% of your AP to work with, and past that breakpoint you need to start shutting things down, or slowing consumption.

i got an idea why dont we give all bots the same range, dps, speed, rof, and los advantages just say they are using different weapons and give different animations? Come on think here. I've got numerous different ideas of how to counter it. Maybe start playing in the sandbox a little before you start thinking something is OP'd and try some counter tactic first.

And Accum recharge is not a valid argument cause:

#1 You/They will be dead before it becomes into play.
#2 Energy Injectors nullify the problem

Again, nobody said anything about making them all the same, nor about making the Seth "uber".  What is being indicated by the data is that the Gropho has significant advantages over both the Mesmer and the Seth.

    The AP issue should be glaring to everyone, and no one can deny the Gropho's advantage there.  Any addition of modules increase the AP usage on the Gropho, but that also is the case with the Seth and Mesmer, and they are already starting with a negative net regen.

    The other 3 issues that stand out, is that as the longest range heavy mech, it probably should be the slowest.  Looking at all the other Pelistal bots and mechs, you find that all of them are slower than the comparable Thelodica and Nuimqol bots/mechs.

    Either that, or it should keep its speed and have it's range reduced further.  This would be consistant with the other bots and mechs (excepting the waspish, which I wll leave for another to show how insanely OP t can be).

    Thirdly, the fact that the Seth has a shield bonus, which no other Thelodica bot has, and that all other Thelodica bots/mechs have either an AP regen bonus or a resist bonus, plus lacking the AP regen to handle a shield tank, should be a clear indication of an issue.

    EDIT:  Again, on the damage issue, many here convienently forget that missiles go over landscape features that turrets do not.  Therefore, as far as actual applied DPS, the Gropho probably has a higher rate of actual delivered DPS,, with fewer shots hitting landscape features. Whereas the Seth does have a significanly higher DPS, as noted in the original post, over a 800 m range, the likelyhood of getting a clear shot can be significantly reduced, thus "balancing" it's DPS potential.

Since when was Thelodica intended to have the longest possible range?

To me the first thing that needs adjustment is the AP the heavy mechs should be cap stable with just there guns running with a certain point of time and if those numbers who showed are correct there heavy mechs cant fight for more then a few minutes and god help you if someone has a nuet