No, and neither did I use Precison Firing.  Missle Guidance  "Each - level of this extension reduces the chance of missile guidance failure by an additional 1 percentage point."  With Missle Guidance to 10, chance of misfire goes to 0%. ( hich addresses another person's comments earlier)

And Khadia, also you others who keep saying it, autocannons are not the answer here for the following reasons:

-Seth bonuses are for lasers, 5% increase to damage per level of Advanced Robotics.
-Seth is already the slowest heavy mech, with lasers fitted.  Medium HCL T4 lasers are 330kg apiece (total of 1980kg).  T4 Medium autocannons are 700kg apiece (total of 4200 kg)!
with the net result of slowing the Seth further.
-T4 Medium HCL has a base optimal of 350, T4 Medium Autocannons have a base optimal of 225.  With being even slower fitting T4 medium autocannons, now you've reduced the optimal range below that of a Artemis/Tyrannos mech fit for long range, never mind a heavy mech, with the a speed approximately half of what a long range mech can achieve.  At that point, you have a medium range expensive stationary turret, that can neither close the gap, nor hit it's targets.

Other than offering subjective opinion, nothing you have stated is based on objective data, therefore it is you who's arguements "...get worse with each try... really"

And, if the data were not valid:

Why did so many ppl respec to Pelistal?
Why do you not see Seths, or for that matter, many Mesmers, in incursion PVP?

The real issue here is because people did respec, due to the LOS, AP, and speed issues, and then heavily invest in retooling to Grophos for incursions, and are more interested in protecting that, than an actually balance that allows for an active role in PVP, and Incursions, for the other heavies.  "OMG, if they buff Mesmes and Seths, or nerf Gropho's. wewill no longer have that advantage!!!"

For the most part, that is what I see here as far as the negative responses.  You want you arguements to be taken seriously, present DATA that supports your arguements.  Otherwise, it's just opinion.

ATM, Mesmer and Seth are good for farming, though you have to energy transfer the Seth to sustain it, but have little on no role for PVP, due to the inbalance between them and the Gropho.

Seems also to be some hangup about the ammo selected for the Analysis, so let's clear that up.  All the ammo selected was NPC ammo, with range bonus, excepting the Mesmer, which does not have an ammo type that increases range.  Cypto ammo, used for the Seth calcs, is also NPC only supplied, and has a damage reduction in return for the extra range, as does the Heat-Ix ammo.

So here are the figues based on all using chemoactive ammo that can be manufactured by players.  All damage amounts are based on the totals for all 6 weapons firing.

Gropho   
Damage - Medium Chemoactive Ballistic Missle   
Chemical    248.4 DPS
Seismic    331.2 DPS
Optimal Range    504.9 m

Seth   
Damage - Medium Chemoactive Energy Cells   
Chemical    199.68 DPS
Thermal    349.44 DPS
Optimal Range    444.5 m

Mesmer   
Damage - Medium Chemoactive Energy Cells   
Chemical    334.08 DPS
Kinetic    584.64 DPS
Optimal Range    393.7 m

Same situation with the Seth as well, and the Mesmer, skills that increase reactor CPU, or reduce fitting costs for those attributes, need to be high to fit any heavy mech.

So the statement, also without supporting data, does not alter the analysis.

Edit:  Also, the discussion is not based on how you want to fit a heavy, that will be effected by your skill levels, but about the base attributes, speed, damge, range, and weapon AP consumption vs. recharge, and their impact on the heavy mech performanace.

Cap inject and use range extenders.  Problem solved.

cognitive.  you first.

EDIT: best thread summary goes to -->

Well if that nasty Gropho is still a problem maybe try something other than a solo mech to kill it.  2 sensor suppressors on that scawy gropho will make his range advantage useless.

If the game was only heavy mechs vs. heavy mechs, sure the OP might be on to something.  However, there are more than heavy mechs in this game, some of which are designed to neutralize the advantages of other ships (sensor suppressors, demobs and neuts). 

Nice thought experiment OP, but without any practical real world data to support your claims this whole thread is pointless.

Thelodica mechs certainly seem to be seeing some pvp. Over a quarter of the robots listed on the big fight today were artemis'. There was 1 gropho (the only heavy), although obviously the list didn't include everyone who was involved.

Good lord there are some obstinate people on this forum.

Ok let's look at some of the points made on both sides:

Gropho is OP/Seth is UP:
1) Gropho is faster, has longer range, and the ability to fire it weapons continuously and 50% ignore terrain problems
2) The Seth has a bonus to shields when it isn't even possible to 1) fit a shield fit without gimping the rest of the fit, or 2) utilize the bonus as by the time the shields are needed 2-3 minutes into a fight you are out of AP.

Gropho is fine, Seth would be OP with changes:
1) Missiles do much less damage, and LOS isn't a valid argument because Gropho's don't have a portable hill.
2) Missiles don't have longer range, if you include fall-off
3) If you changed the seth it would be OP
4) If you fit firearms to seth, the AP issue is gone
5) If you nerf the gropho something else would simply take it's place
6) Intrusion PvP never happens and shouldn't be balanced around

Let's address some points brought up:

1) The Seth is NOT OK with a cap injector fit.  From what I understand, you cannot carry more than 3-4 minutes worth of charges & ammo.  Beyond that, a seth is STILL not AP stable with a cap injector fit - meaning it requires support to be somewhat equal to the gropho in a firefight.  Let me emphasize - an injector fit seth DOES NOT make it stable.
1a) firearms are not a solution against gropho's - less range, slows you down more.  It is a solution for soloing, but we are NOT talking about solo seth vs solo gropho.  That's just stupid.

2) Do we not see a problem with the fact that the gropho is faster and has longer range and can continuously fire without carrying a full cargo of cap charges that are gone in 3-5 minutes?  One of these factors needs to change, and just to throw a ballpark number out there, maybe 4-5 m/s speed nerf is in order.  That would give the gropho the role of the longer range sniper, still competitive and better against seth's due to resists, and more heavily countered by faster mesmer's (which fits into rock paper scissors).
2b) Don't include falloff.  If you include falloff you're still looking at the seth dealing about 50% of it's damage around the range at which it get's close to the gropho optimal.

3) The Seth is completely unable to utilize it's shield bonus UNLESS it is a gimmick fit that sits under outposts with autocannon.  Such a gimick fit is also completely countered by a few Ictus'.  Swapping this bonus to resist would not change their viability as gimmick tanks countered by Ictus', but would at least give them something to work with.  An AP bonus could be in order so that it can be at least STABLE when using guns + injector.

4) Anyone who thinks this discussion is in any way related to a SOLO discussion needs to wake up.  As it is, if you have 15 Gropho + 8 support vs 15 gropho/seth/mesmer + 8 support, the 15 gropho's will win every time because of the range, speed, and LOS advantage.  All that needs to chagne is to make the mixed group more competitive.  If someone brings 15 gropho's, you should be able to bring 15 mesmer's to counter and kill them, which ATM you can't.  The goal of the rock paper scissors balance in this game is require diverse squads - which with the Gropho being where it is right now, there is no reason to ever diversify - just put all your non-pelistal pilots into support and win.

sorry to short your post down to that.
but correct phrase would be
"Missiles DO have shorter range, even if you DON'T count in falloff".

with lupus example:

ballistic missile = 411m (no bufferzone)
laser = 444m
(more then 100m additional bufferzone where you can deal damage and your weapons won't deactivate)
em gun = 339 (little less then 100m bufferzone)

-15% accumulator consumption on medium laser - only thing i agree here.

while for pve i would like the armor resist change on seth - for pvp or fitting possibilities its horror. A seth with all its hitpoints can be almost instant-repaired by a remote rep. make it another resist tank, and i can use a RR camelion to repair it.

(btw, recently i learned that the "armor resist bonus" is missing a word: "passive ...")

IF by any chance all those things get implemented, then i demand an essential change of firearms. because the falloff-bonus of blue bots made them a choice on blue, and their AP consumption a choice for yellow (yes its yellow!)

Did some quick calcs...

Yea thats a step in the right direction. But you should also increase to AP usage of missiles (small and medium) to he point where blues and yellows are.

That also requires that you review AC Cannons and Machine guns as they should be no alternative to bot specific small range weapons.

To archive better results:

-30% medium laser accumulator usage decrease
-30% magnetic weapon accu usage/lvl
missiles AP usage * 10

Please dont touch the bot bonuses (yet). The Seth speed modification however would make him prolly as fast as a gropho (cant verify) while still having the LOS issue.

And mesmer will still be able to run from their arch enemy .. the seth.