Re: New devblog: September status report

Having a correct Alpha->Beta->Gamma progression both in the casual "risk vs reward" concept of things and in the more thorough "mechanic" sense is the FOUNDATION of the whole game, stuff you're talking about is irrelevant compared to sorting out the foundation.

Once the foundation is sorted out, the rest comes in and improves it even more.

When the dust settles the game will be a lot more mission-running oriented.

102

Re: New devblog: September status report

Annihilator wrote:
Naismith wrote:

Realistically your only real "deadline" is the Steam winter sale, so take your time and polish it as much as possible before moving it to live.

i wouldn't be that sure

steam wintersale is the time-limit for having:

  • spark teleport removed

  • roaming NPCs increased and tested/balanced

  • orange NPCs removed

  • new beacon mechanics released and tested

  • loot tables rewriten and tested

you don't want to have a larger new player wave facing those changes shortly after they have joined. TBH, beta2's highway and field-terminal grid should have a much lower priority if you are aiming for a new player influx.

Why would a winter sale - even if it was something crazy like 95% - bring anyone to the game when the people who have it for free don't even play?

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: New devblog: September status report

Jita wrote:

Why would a winter sale - even if it was something crazy like 95% - bring anyone to the game when the people who have it for free don't even play?

I'm aware that it's not the only reason, but the people who have it for free don't play because the other people who have it for free don't play smile That's basically the most frustrating thing for us devs. (I'm not here to lament, just putting in my 2c.)

104

Re: New devblog: September status report

DEV Zoom wrote:
Jita wrote:

Why would a winter sale - even if it was something crazy like 95% - bring anyone to the game when the people who have it for free don't even play?

I'm aware that it's not the only reason, but the people who have it for free don't play because the other people who have it for free don't play smile That's basically the most frustrating thing for us devs. (I'm not here to lament, just putting in my 2c.)

Which is why focusing on the single player aspect of Perp is so important. If you play eve or WoW or archage or any other successful MMO as a single player you can have fun for a decent amount of time. Even in the more hardcore games like LiF and Mortal there is so much to do and explore and variety that its fun.

Perp on the other hand actively encourages people to stop doing PVE after the first couple of weeks and as a single player is really dull.

Nothing your doing in the next twelve months addresses that.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: New devblog: September status report

Naismith wrote:

Having a correct Alpha->Beta->Gamma progression both in the casual "risk vs reward" concept of things and in the more thorough "mechanic" sense is the FOUNDATION of the whole game, stuff you're talking about is irrelevant compared to sorting out the foundation.

Once the foundation is sorted out, the rest comes in and improves it even more.

When the dust settles the game will be a lot more mission-running oriented.

New players don't care about the game foundations (although important), they care about a good gaming experience which none of these patches addresses. The game is nearly empty and as Jita just said, the single player experience is vastly more important when the game world is virtually empty.

The missions have improved but still too short and repetitive and extremely boring, to pile on this 'foundation project'
old beacons removed and static spawn removal give new players less options other than missions.

Where has the game improved on the perspective on new players?

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: New devblog: September status report

DEV Zoom wrote:
Jita wrote:

Why would a winter sale - even if it was something crazy like 95% - bring anyone to the game when the people who have it for free don't even play?

I'm aware that it's not the only reason, but the people who have it for free don't play because the other people who have it for free don't play smile That's basically the most frustrating thing for us devs. (I'm not here to lament, just putting in my 2c.)


Although not the only cause : We told you guys to revert the robot balance, but as always you guys know better.

RIP PERPETUUM

107

Re: New devblog: September status report

Celebro wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:
Jita wrote:

Why would a winter sale - even if it was something crazy like 95% - bring anyone to the game when the people who have it for free don't even play?

I'm aware that it's not the only reason, but the people who have it for free don't play because the other people who have it for free don't play smile That's basically the most frustrating thing for us devs. (I'm not here to lament, just putting in my 2c.)


Although not the only cause : We told you guys to revert the robot balance, but as always you guys know better.

When perpetuum dies that will be seen as the point it became untenable. They could have done so much and it was just so terrible. Worse was the fact that not a single part of that travesty of a patch has been changed. Terrible.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

108

Re: New devblog: September status report

The "Robot Balance" patch does need addressing and reverting.  IMO, it's what really killed participation.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

109 (edited by logicalNegation 2015-10-19 18:41:47)

Re: New devblog: September status report

DEV Zoom wrote:

I'm aware that it's not the only reason, but the people who have it for free don't play because the other people who have it for free don't play smile That's basically the most frustrating thing for us devs. (I'm not here to lament, just putting in my 2c.)

As you observe, an MMO lives on a critical mass of players to populate the Massiveness of the Multiplayer in order to attract and keep more people around and for longer, an unfortunate catch-22.
Silicon Valley people call this 'stickiness'.  A metric to understand how long a player sticks around: lifespan, maybe.
If this is too short, then you have to find a way to bolster the single-player experience to increase the lifespan of the casual player, and then create a spark of attention/attraction with something new and exciting that would draw old and new players alike back into the game, or purchasing the game for the first time. 

The assignments update is great, and you are following through on Beta increasing incentives for Beta activity; which is great.
But fresh, new content seems to be the only big attraction for most players that leave the game, or are on the fence about buying.

The talk about the balance patch is relevant too.  Not because if its reverted vets will magically come back because they left as a protest? (is this true? need citation).  But because new players that do show up hear from the remaining vets that if they picked green, they chose wrong and this negatively affects their outlook on the game as they feel like they start at a disadvantage. 

The sad truth is it doesn't matter what is True for the player, only how they feel and what is 'truthy' for them.

This same negative feeling comes from how dumb new players feel when they cant find the artifact in the tutorial.  You guys are addressing this, and I think it might be the right way to look at things now.  I admit, I was against the artifact scanning change because the rigor it required made it appropriately difficult.  But the negative effects of rage-quitting tutorial-level players can't be ignored.

I guess the question is, what other topics in game, or not yet in-game, could address this player experience in other areas?

Anyway keep up the good work, and feel free to ignore all of this because I'm dumb and don't know what I am talking about.

Re: New devblog: September status report

Well written logicalNegation!

Vets are an irrelevant variable, catering to their "needs" in hope they "return to the game" is a waste of time.

The Alpha->Beta->Gamma rework with regards to missions, spark removal, teleport & highway rework in favor of highways, facility point differences to discourage large corps living on Alpha and avoiding risk like the plague, artifact rework, static spawn removal.

Those are all VERY important changes that encourage new players to actively play the game, make the effort to start their own corporations and build them up, etc etc.

With that solid foundation in place, it will be much easier to close the book permanently on rehashing Beta content, and focus on brand new content.

Re: New devblog: September status report

Naismith wrote:

Having a correct Alpha->Beta->Gamma progression both in the casual "risk vs reward" concept of things and in the more thorough "mechanic" sense is the FOUNDATION of the whole game, stuff you're talking about is irrelevant compared to sorting out the foundation.

Once the foundation is sorted out, the rest comes in and improves it even more.

When the dust settles the game will be a lot more mission-running oriented.

yeah, its a constant foundation for a dead game, especially mmo's.

that kind of progression is a guarantee for new player facing emptiness from the very beginning, since the location they start has content for 2-3 days, then they already have to move on.
Given we have 3 starter islands, and about 10 new player per day, the average number of player in sight of each other is... zero.

that alone would be not much of an issue, since mmo's these days are populated by single player that feel forced to play online - if there would be enough NPCs to fill in for the missing player, on BOTH sides (hostile and allied)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

112 (edited by Celebro 2015-10-19 20:56:37)

Re: New devblog: September status report

Put it this way: Where is the incentive to click the buy button from all these changes? None at all

Incentives:

New bots
New GUI
New NPC AI gameplay
Island Instances for long haul missions

Stuff that says this game can be fun, balancing adds nothing to the new player. The Devs obsession with having balance although an MMO is never balanced , it's an ongoing process that never ends.

What time is left for new content?

RIP PERPETUUM

113

Re: New devblog: September status report

The only answers i've seen so far make the game more hardcore not less. This game is so niche its not worth playing. Everything other indy games have done to get success they turn their nose up at and because of that it should have died a year ago.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: New devblog: September status report

Jita wrote:

The only answers i've seen so far make the game more hardcore not less. This game is so niche its not worth playing. Everything other indy games have done to get success they turn their nose up at and because of that it should have died a year ago.

How much more 'hardcore' do you want this game.  When you lose a robot, Dev Zoom comes to your house and shoots you in face?  How about when you die from NPC, your account gets perma deleted (unlike the not so perm ' I am leaving this game... until I return' deletions).

115

Re: New devblog: September status report

Can most people agree PVE keeps newbies around.. PVP keeps vets around?  Hey Zoom what did you think of my NPC Siege island that was "Instance" Based?  http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … ge-island/  And what did the player base think?  It was mostly hi-jacked by people asking for T5 stuff

116

Re: New devblog: September status report

Altera wrote:
Jita wrote:

The only answers i've seen so far make the game more hardcore not less. This game is so niche its not worth playing. Everything other indy games have done to get success they turn their nose up at and because of that it should have died a year ago.

How much more 'hardcore' do you want this game.  When you lose a robot, Dev Zoom comes to your house and shoots you in face?  How about when you die from NPC, your account gets perma deleted (unlike the not so perm ' I am leaving this game... until I return' deletions).

Thats what i'm saying. Its too hardcore.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: New devblog: September status report

Rovoc wrote:

Can most people agree PVE keeps newbies around.. PVP keeps vets around?  Hey Zoom what did you think of my NPC Siege island that was "Instance" Based?  http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … ge-island/  And what did the player base think?  It was mostly hi-jacked by people asking for T5 stuff

Most of us can agree that PVE keeps the 'masses' around and busy (whether waiting for PVP, waiting on EP, waiting on friends or just to get a few casual minutes on-line).  Hopefully we can all agree that new content is needed to keep this game living (and not just massaging the same old content we have).

Your idea is one of a dozen ideas that we can recommend, but the DEVs need to decide which one they can tackle. Other ideas may be just as entertaining, but maybe harder or easier to implement. 80% of their time should be devoted to NEW content. Ex.

- PVE Siege instances (sounds like a raid dungeon to me) smile
- Intrusions/Rifts that randomly occur
- More bots/modules.
- How about Gamma 1.0 terraforming islands with no PVP (isn't that similar to what all the minecraft kids do).
- New GUI - in and of itself wont help, it would be a prettier game that was still boring
- A PVP tournament island
- Siege equipment (artillery)
- remember the pink colored bots and mustaches for my gropho

The remaining 20% of the DEVs time should be focused on QoL, balancing, end game content (pretty much most of the DEV poll that was put out a few months ago).

TBH: Devs should finish Beta 1 revamp and missions, then do a quick tp/highway revamp of beta 2s and skip the beta 2 missions (cause its gonna take ANOTHER 2 months to finish) to start some NEW content.

I think the tier 5 will miss that mark cause it will just make T1-4 obsolete (like T1-3 currently is 95% of the time).
I think the premade syndicate bots will miss the mark because (again), its just another form of rehashing the same things we have.

118

Re: New devblog: September status report

yeah the siege island is a dungeon instance idea.  Cool thing is it doesn't need to be hard core fresh..  Just take alsbale(for instance) make it have a gray back drop put a bunch of npcs around it.  Put a megaladon bad *** huge bot in the center(which drops bad *** stuff) bam content for months.  Maybe these instances will drop components required to build new bots or mods.

Re: New devblog: September status report

Giant PvE dungeon...  You're talking about a Raid. I don't think anyone's ever tried that in a full loot open PvP game before.

Even if it didn't work, it'd be unique enough that I'd come back to try it out.

120

Re: New devblog: September status report

The trouble is people have suggested it before .. A lot. Just like people have suggested a bunch of ways they could fun the games development. The devs have their own vision and they don't want to stray from that and it's drove the game right in to the ground.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: New devblog: September status report

A lot of suggestions while good, can't function correctly without the foundation in place.

The mission rework coupled with the static NPC removal solves the game's biggest problems - vets botting 4star spawns on Alpha in perfect safety for maximum NIC income in the game. Conveniently, it also moves the game away from static grinding to more involved gameplay.

Field terminal taxation, facility point rebalance, and spark removal; they all incentivize larger corps to own an outpost and cultivate their territory instead of sitting on Alpha or owning islands they never use, while providing opportunity for lesser corps to make the effort and capture their own outpost. Further, if taxation is tied in to stability of the outpost, it will further discourage owning more then you can effectively control and cultivate.

The beacon rework opens the doors to wormholes/instances/whatever down the road.

I partially agree with Altera - NEW content needs to be the focus in the future, after Beta 1 and 2 are seeded with field terminals and mechanics are implemented for taxation and optionally reward differences between them.

122

Re: New devblog: September status report

No, they all limit alpha gameplay forcing people on to Beta. The same place you were so concerned about people ganking noobs in. Its a further degradation of the single player experience and of course make the game less attractive to new people.

You know that of course, thats why you support it.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

123

Re: New devblog: September status report

I even offered to terraform new islands..

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

124

Re: New devblog: September status report

Kayin Prime wrote:

Giant PvE dungeon...  You're talking about a Raid. I don't think anyone's ever tried that in a full loot open PvP game before.

Even if it didn't work, it'd be unique enough that I'd come back to try it out.

I would think since it's instance based other players couldn't enter.  Something like a portal would open up and you'd be transported to another location safe from pvp since they require 2 totally different builds.

125 (edited by Naismith 2015-10-20 17:21:12)

Re: New devblog: September status report

Jita wrote:

No, they all limit alpha gameplay forcing people on to Beta. The same place you were so concerned about people ganking noobs in. Its a further degradation of the single player experience and of course make the game less attractive to new people.

You know that of course, thats why you support it.

I support it because they're good simple changes that reward people who actively play the game and make an effort to get their corporations somewhere.

Single player experience is not veterans with 2-3 accounts botting a 4 star spawn on Alpha for ~20 hours a day. Single player experience is newbies coming in, doing missions and mining.

After Beta 1 and 2 are implemented with field terminals and taxation, it will be time to move on to NEW content instead of rehashing old stuff.