Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Oh my God! (c)
Syndic, justify. Justify your whining. Who bot? Evidence, surveillance, study? What do you like little children. Just whining, but you can not explain.
Oh my God! (c) I Farm this year only 1-2 weeks. Really, I bot... Who else? Badass? Probably. He farm about 10-20-30 times more than me. But it does not mean that it a bot. Evidence. We need proof. But they are not present. Because it's your imagination. You losers and you do not know how (lazy?) to farm?

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

No matter how you square it, Syndic is right. Beta/Gamma needs more reward for the risk. Killing the same group of people over and over and over and over again simply doesn't cut it. 

Before you make the vein pop in your forehead, I spend 98% of my time on alpha.

If Beta/Gamma doesn't get additional rewards then alpha needs a considerable amount of additional risk.

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

It should not nerf alpha - need boost beta/gamma. Nerf - is the path to a standstill.

79 (edited by BadAss 2015-05-14 10:53:37)

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

if you're interested, I'll tell a real farm income in the alpha
2 hour non stop farm ~40-50kk nic. for 4lvl place

p.s. damage perfect + nexus modules
Now count how (OP) long it takes to get this level of farm ... (1year and more without boost)
it's a decent income for agent higher level. you just need to get rid of botting (if it exists)

because the game has no new users, and farm not a mass phenomenon. then I can confidently say that the "war Botting users", use whining for developers, aimed against certain agents.(lately I see no more than 4-5 Farmer in the game). Think now ...

you want red npc? really? back this s#%t https://youtu.be/5bSFjb-J5aI?t=50s  ???

create change considering the wishes of new agents. do not try to make the game interesting for the older agents, which should no longer be here ...

Just @ Game

80 (edited by Altera 2015-05-14 17:47:53)

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

We can argue (and will cont) about who is botting and who isn't, but the bottom line is afk mining and afk/semi-afk farming (botting) is bad for this game. 

No Risk Alpha effect:
1. Boring PVE
2. Excessive afk play
3. biased risk-vs-reward toward alpha
3. Lower prices on markets (due to #2)
4. Less reason to goto beta/gamma -> less PVP
5. No need for new players to help corps (due to #2), therfore no new player engagement in game, hence low new player retention
6. Massive amounts of hording by current players


We can boost betas/gammas, but it does not solve the problem of collecting massive stuff while you are afk.  Just as now, anyone can go mine and get material wayyyyy faster then afk mining in scarabs.  Why do they still do it?  Becasue botting and afk mining takes zero time and can be done 24/7.  You cant get over that fact with a beta/gamma boost, ever!

Red NPCs on alpha should be reinstated, period.  DEVs fix the aggro tables so the person who intially aggros the NPCs keep aggro properly (they shouldnt randomly switch to someone if that 2nd player doesnt aggro the NPCs).  Players need to take some responsability too, if they see someone dragging NPCs toward them, then they should move before that player can dock up or drop a TP (assuming they are not afk).  If you need to afk, log the F off or take the risk.  If you need to watch cats or porn while mining, then keep one hand free to switch back to the game you are supposedly playing every once and a while.

If we want to keep a 100% safe zone (alpha 1s), then make these players work hard for that free safety.  Reduce mineral field size significantly, so that its not even worth bringing an afk team out there. make the spawns not worth the effort to any but the newest players.

81 (edited by Chemist 2015-05-14 18:07:35)

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Altera wrote:

We can argue (and will cont) about who is botting and who isn't, but the bottom line is afk mining and afk/semi-afk farming (botting) is bad for this game. 

No Risk Alpha effect:
1. Boring PVE
2. Excessive afk play
3. biased risk-vs-reward toward alpha
3. Lower prices on markets (due to #2)
4. Less reason to goto beta/gamma -> less PVP
5. No need for new players to help corps (due to #2), therfore no new player engagement in game, hence low new player retention
6. Massive amounts of hording by current players


We can boost betas/gammas, but it does not solve the problem of collecting massive stuff while you are afk.  Just as now, anyone can go mine and get material wayyyyy faster then afk mining in scarabs.  Why do they still do it?  Becasue botting and afk mining takes zero time and can be done 24/7.  You cant get over that fact with a beta/gamma boost, ever!

Red NPCs on alpha should be reinstated, period.  DEVs fix the aggro tables so the person who intially aggros the NPCs keep aggro properly (they shouldnt randomly switch to someone if that 2nd player doesnt aggro the NPCs).  Players need to take some responsability too, if they see someone dragging NPCs toward them, then they should move before that player can dock up or drop a TP (assuming they are not afk).  If you need to afk, log the F off or take the risk.  If you need to watch cats or porn while mining, then keep one hand free to switch back to the game you are supposedly playing every once and a while.

If we want to keep a 100% safe zone (alpha 1s), then make these players work hard for that free safety.  Reduce mineral field size significantly, so that its not even worth bringing an afk team out there. make the spawns not worth the effort to any but the newest players.

Too complicated. I propose a ban violators. Works 100%. And bugusers too. After the first ban, the rest ponder on this. Yes, you lose 1-3-5-10 customers, but will raise the confidence of the new players. And maybe banned people will buy game again. smile

upd: AFK-miners? It is a perversion. I in half an hour to dig out as much ore as AFK-scarab in 10 hours. Do not pay attention to them. And yes, return the red NPCs at alpha islands.

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

DEV Zoom wrote:

Yes. But also honest miners who took some minutes to browse cat gifs between changing tiles (I don't blame them),...

You basicly admit that the resource gathering part is so boring that you can understand that someone would do something else on his computer while the mining process runs as a background task.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Annihilator wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

Yes. But also honest miners who took some minutes to browse cat gifs between changing tiles (I don't blame them),...

You basicly admit that the resource gathering part is so boring that you can understand that someone would do something else on his computer while the mining process runs as a background task.

Yes, I didn't think that was a secret.

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

  • so, the AI was changed to not leash back to their spawn location, but follow their aggro targets forever*.

  • orange NPCs do lose interest in agents if their aggro level was not refreshed for some time (aka if you tank them for a few seconds, they unlock you and go back to run circles again)

  • NPCs that cannot find a valid path to their target for more then 30 seconds will automatically teleport there

  • NPCs will try to stay within optimal range of their weapons with free line of sight

IMHO there's enough room for improvement. Like NPCs learning to use cover if their primary offensive equip doesn't require LoS towards the player, Industrial NPCs doing their industrial stuff instead of E(n)War,
and groups of NPCs evaluating if its worth following a target or not, with the ability to remember a decision longer then for a few milliseconds.

Fix beacon exploits with better AI, not "teleporting NPCs" workarounds. eg. limit where beacons can be placed (minimum space) or let NPCs use the vortex as two-way connection (retreat if stuck).

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Chemist wrote:

Too complicated. I propose a ban violators. Works 100%. And bugusers too. After the first ban, the rest ponder on this. Yes, you lose 1-3-5-10 customers, but will raise the confidence of the new players. And maybe banned people will buy game again. smile

I would agree with this, but this would require an engaged DEV team.  If it takes 6 months and several tickets for the DEV team to realize reds are not spwaning on gamma (or epi is spawning on gamma), how do you think they will be able to detect, verify and deal with violators of anything.  We need to be realistic here and not ask things form the devs that they can not provide.

Chemist wrote:

upd: AFK-miners? It is a perversion. I in half an hour to dig out as much ore as AFK-scarab in 10 hours.

Agree, but many, many, many players afk mine.

Chemist wrote:

Do not pay attention to them.

I do not have an automated means to mine in a riv.  I will fill up my rivs in about 6 min and have to unload into a can.

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

DEV Zoom wrote:
Annihilator wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

Yes. But also honest miners who took some minutes to browse cat gifs between changing tiles (I don't blame them),...

You basicly admit that the resource gathering part is so boring that you can understand that someone would do something else on his computer while the mining process runs as a background task.

Yes, I didn't think that was a secret.

I am sad that the DEVs find a large portion of their game boring sad

You may find mining boring, but it is a large and important part of a MMO like this.  By allowing players to bypass this portion of the game, you are cutting off a large portion of your potential playerbase ($$).

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Altera wrote:

I am sad that the DEVs find a large portion of their game boring sad

Well look at it this way: at least we know where we can improve.

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

yeah... bring back red NPCs...

even the hardest spawn on alpha can be solo'ed with a heavy mech due to max. 2 NPCs shooting you for a few seconds.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

89 (edited by BadAss 2015-05-15 09:34:36)

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

I'm really looking forward to this patch, what to see in General chat will be 1000 people online


little pvp? create free all mk1 robots and T1 modules, u get massive pvp big_smile

Just @ Game

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Altera wrote:
Chemist wrote:

upd: AFK-miners? It is a perversion. I in half an hour to dig out as much ore as AFK-scarab in 10 hours.

Agree, but many, many, many players afk mine.

See: 10 AFK miners equal 1 living miner.
In the current online AFK-miners, can be neglected.
This does not mean that I do not mind. This suggests that alpha-island 100% secure.
For example, in EVE such impossible. smile

91 (edited by Ensireka 2015-05-16 00:51:53)

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Aye Pod wrote:

No matter how you square it, Syndic is right. Beta/Gamma needs more reward for the risk. Killing the same group of people over and over and over and over again simply doesn't cut it. 

Before you make the vein pop in your forehead, I spend 98% of my time on alpha.

If Beta/Gamma doesn't get additional rewards then alpha needs a considerable amount of additional risk.

I strongly agree with this.  I await the reintroduction of the npcs hunting the players on Alpha!

The problem really comes into nic value of plasma.  Maybe plasma could have levels, or a purity Content.  So, Alpha Plasma purity level bronze would be worth 150, silver 175 and gold 200.  Beta bronze 175, silver 225 and gold 275.  Gamma bronze 275, silver 325, gold 375. 

Risk vs reward. 

Or ... Flat nic payout like EvE rats.  Where plasma is used to raise standings which slowly decrease, but you can buy buffs, ammo or items.  Ammo like ... Frost ... Adds the demob effect. 

Perhaps the latter is a bad idea.  But could prove interesting.  ;)

In both scenarios, you would be able to sell all current plasma for typical prices placed before the change came out, whether you saved it or just weren't in-game, no need to be punished.

-Ensi

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Ensireka wrote:

Flat nic payout like EvE rats.

Dev Zoom would you be oppossed to this system??

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

No, but I don't see what difference it would make, other than reduce risk a bit.

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

It means instead of having an all or nothing system, you reward players even if they die.  Meaning less hardcore.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Ville wrote:

It means instead of having an all or nothing system, you reward players even if they die.  Meaning less hardcore.

i am trying to explain that since the implementation of plasma. The above response is just... the usual

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

96 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2015-05-16 08:00:17)

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Annihilator wrote:
Ville wrote:

It means instead of having an all or nothing system, you reward players even if they die.  Meaning less hardcore.

i am trying to explain that since the implementation of plasma. The above response is just... the usual

Vile brings up a legitimate question. Zoom gave a good answer.

And as always your post gets a: http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/fac … 95/77c.jpg

big_smile

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

The other thing to consider is, if my plasma system were utilized, the plasma drops would have to be reworked. 

I understand that plasma is dropping from certain assaults that drop more then a mech.  Though I personally do not know of the npcs in regards to this, however, that should never be the case unless its an Tier 4 / 5 assault and the mech was a Tier 1.  However, I understand that the Tier levels were the same.

Therfore, above all else ... please, adjust plasma drops off a modifier that is more realistic to bot size, abilities, Tier level and section (thunderstrike, earthquake, havoc, smasher, blastwave ... ect)

-Ensi

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

plasma drop system was implemented as stupid risk vs. reward system.

1. weak player should try to gather plasma on beta, under the risk of getting shot down
2. strong player should try go kill weak player to get plasma as reward
3. biggest rewards are granted to those who can hold and lock-down a beta outpost

thats how the trusted advisors of the DEVs (Styx, Siddy, Blackomen) though of it as a good system, without a single hint of self-serving interests.
And, a decision made 4 years ago, can't have been wrong, can it?

given that Syndics requests to make PvP islands more attractive, all go into the same direction, they can't be wrong either, can't they?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

99 (edited by Ensireka 2015-05-17 19:57:21)

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

I am not against a risk vs reward system, surely we need one.  What i am against is unbalanced pay for the risk vs reward system we currently have.  Though, I do wish I'd have been farming a long time ago.  Lol

Honestly, the static spawns aren't the real problem.  It's the lack of a challenge at the locations that make it too easy.  Imagine if you had a double or triple spawn ... When you sufficiently angered its brethren, the other spawns would have a % chance to aggro you, increasing the chance % per npc unit destroyed.  You can see how this could get interesting or much harder solo ... Even with buff and rep bots.

-Ensi

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

npc spawns had been much more difficult in the past. Orange NPCs are only hard for noobs who don't understand that they should only lock NPCs with the same name at once. NPC farming in the past was about kiting them with superiour range and speed. There was no issue with it for years.
Then out of nowhere, the DEVs removed the "leash" from npcs, because they though kiting was to easy (aggro npcs from outside their leash-range.
all the griefing that happend after that, was countered with dumbing down npcs to not aggro anyone on their own.
and because they could just blacklist areas with static npc spawns on the mineral spawn map, noobs have been sent to gather titan ore in the middle of red spawns as their tutorial mission.

what you are asking for is to revert a chain of bad decissions regarding least-effort mechanic coding, back to what it was before. (and i am not really against it.)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear