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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Ensireka wrote:
Syndic wrote:

1. Remove ALL static spawns from Alpha.
2. Remove NPC explosion-damage destroying loot.
3. Implement kernel-buy orders that activate when corp-owned Beta outpost (nothing in NPC terminals!) is at 100
4. Adjust plasma price to 275 Alpha/325 Beta NPC and Gamma/375 owned Beta outpost at 100 stability.

Less incentives for botting and hiding on Alpha, more incentives for playing the game and competing.


I see what you did there ... you just want to hinder Alpha players and provide bonus's to Beta and Gamma players to do the beacon farming with plasma bombs and arkhe's again ... go figure. 

Perhaps you would prefer 'God' mode  too? 

Do you feel that if a player wants and ONLY desires to play on Alpha doing w/e they want you should punish them for their play style?  (I am NOT referring to botting being acceptable by any means) 

The way YOU play is NOT for EVERYONE.  Quit trying to force players that want NOTHING to do with the other islands to be on them.  That will surely lower the already low population.  If / When they are ready, they'll go there.

-Ensi

I am sure there's a way to fix this. First idea popping in my head is making beacons deployable from alpha only. Just because this was exploited before doesnt mean that they cant fix exploits from both sides. Besides, if not for beacon pits, everyone would use beacons on alpha. No incentive in beta/gamma.

52 Reply by Ville (edited by Ville 2015-05-13 15:31:41)

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Ensireka wrote:
Syndic wrote:

1. Remove ALL static spawns from Alpha.
2. Remove NPC explosion-damage destroying loot.
3. Implement kernel-buy orders that activate when corp-owned Beta outpost (nothing in NPC terminals!) is at 100
4. Adjust plasma price to 275 Alpha/325 Beta NPC and Gamma/375 owned Beta outpost at 100 stability.

Less incentives for botting and hiding on Alpha, more incentives for playing the game and competing.


I see what you did there ... you just want to hinder Alpha players and provide bonus's to Beta and Gamma players to do the beacon farming with plasma bombs and arkhe's again ... go figure. 

Perhaps you would prefer 'God' mode  too? 

Do you feel that if a player wants and ONLY desires to play on Alpha doing w/e they want you should punish them for their play style?  (I am NOT referring to botting being acceptable by any means) 

The way YOU play is NOT for EVERYONE.  Quit trying to force players that want NOTHING to do with the other islands to be on them.  That will surely lower the already low population.  If / When they are ready, they'll go there.

-Ensi

The developer already stated they were doing this.

DEV Zoom wrote:

Loot will most likely be reworked when we replace the fixed spawns with roaming ones, but that still leaves the question of the token shop.

Please stop accusing players that they are "influencing" something that is already in the development path.  If you disagree with this change you need to speak with the people who develop this game.

Link for the lazy:  http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/post/120850/#p120850

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Sadly Illiathos, that again forces players to do what they don't feel like they should be forced to do.  That goes against what I said previously.  sad 

Forcing players to play a specific way is only a hindrance to the game and to the players enjoyment.  That's why I can't stand D3. 

You are somewhat right though, however I have no idea how to solve the issue of abusing game mechanics ... unless you made the plasma bombs too big for anything but an hauler and couldn't fit med plates on lights / assaults.

There will always be ways around it.  I just don't know how to curb the explosion damage / can loss on Beta's and Gamma's ... unless cans had an Armor value and a can would not drop unless a player did over 50% damage to the npc ...

-Ensi

54 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2015-05-13 15:51:52)

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

As long as the source of beacons is limited, I don't see the harm in anyone doing them on Betas with plasma bombs or anything else creative. The easier beacons are to do, the more tokens will cost. That's more profit for token grinders and Alphabears, less profit for people actually popping them en masse.

The only reason they used to be imba as *** was because people could get dozens of 3-stripes in an hour.. even during the token printing days, they used to cost like 120-150k/u. That's like 10mil+ for the top beacon. If the source of tokens is fixed with the new assignments, imagine how much they'd cost now and how limited the supply hopefully would be.

Just remove the stupid mechanic that destroys loot containers and fix the restriction of 3 beacons per area so people can't trickle more in after activating the first ones and we're golden.

55 Reply by Ensireka (edited by Ensireka 2015-05-13 16:08:58)

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Ville, the only reason they are doing is is because whiners.  Example : Red on Alphas.  Removed because whiners.  Just had to make them NOT target other players till they were locked, supporting the target or had reached their original spawn point / last patrol poimt(reset themself) at which they would then become hostile to players within their range.

Tailoring a game for a select few is unwise.

-Ensi

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Ensireka wrote:

Example : Red on Alphas.  Removed because whiners.  Just had to make them NOT target other players till they were locked, supporting the target or had reached their original spawn point / last patrol poimt(reset themself) at which they would then become hostile to players within their range.

The difference between red and orange NPCs IS that the latter only attack when locked... so what you say is what actually happened.

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Burial wrote:

Just remove the stupid mechanic that destroys loot containers and fix the restriction of 3 beacons per area so people can't trickle more in after activating the first ones and we're golden.

Probably because of the usual band aid fixes that plague this game. If this was possible they would do it, I guess. Or maybe it could take a long time to change it and they have other priorities.

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Then what am I missing about the reds being removed from Alpha?  I remember how reds kept you active and paying very close attention ... but people have mentioned reds being drug over to others and being kill by them ... if that's so ... then only a mechanic had to be repaired, not the removal of a great idea!  sad

Guess I need a hair more research into this.  Sorry if i'm jumping the gun on that.

-Ensi

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Reds could be abused by luring them away on top of other players and leave them there (by being fast enough or simply logging out), and since they aggro on sight, they locked onto the nearest new target. Oranges don't do that.

60 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2015-05-13 16:14:06)

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Ensireka wrote:

Then what am I missing about the reds being removed from Alpha?  I remember how reds kept you active and paying very close attention ... but people have mentioned reds being drug over to others and being kill by them ... if that's so ... then only a mechanic had to be repaired, not the removal of a great idea!  sad

Guess I need a hair more research into this.  Sorry if i'm jumping the gun on that.

-Ensi

Since red npc follow you around, you could get a group of them with a tanky bot and take them to where another player is farming/mining then disappear using a mobile tp, npcs would then target the other player.

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Celebro wrote:

Since red npc follow you around, you could get a group of them with a tanky bot and take them to where another player is farming/mining then disappear using a mobile tp, npcs would then target the other player.

I like your idea. smile

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

DEV Zoom wrote:

Reds could be abused by luring them away on top of other players and leave them there (by being fast enough or simply logging out), and since they aggro on sight, they locked onto the nearest new target. Oranges don't do that.

Couldn't we have them not lock on to a new target until they have reached their last / original aggro position, or were aggressed in some way.  Like how artifacting npcs don't target other bystanders in the area unless they draw the aggression with some hostile action?  You changed that for artifacting, would it be a simple change for the reds otherwise? 

I dunno, just offering some input.  smile

-Ensi

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Zoom you can't build a game based around how *** will act. Just state that dragging spawns with the intention of griefing people is actionable under the EULA and put them back how they were.

When I first came to perpetuum one of the things that stood out to me was how challenging rats were. One mech that was tier 4 would provide a realisticly hard challenge and possible death for the same sized mech in a newish player. The rats had teeth. Now they are the same dull *** that eve had before sleepers, cicidians and incursions.

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Tonnik wrote:

Zoom you can't build a game based around how *** will act. Just state that dragging spawns with the intention of griefing people is actionable under the EULA and put them back how they were.

When I first came to perpetuum one of the things that stood out to me was how challenging rats were. One mech that was tier 4 would provide a realisticly hard challenge and possible death for the same sized mech in a newish player. The rats had teeth. Now they are the same dull *** that eve had before sleepers, cicidians and incursions.

100% agree

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Blocker wrote:
Ensireka wrote:
Gwyndor wrote:

Not when you can still make more farming a static spawn on alpha that you can running around trying to find observers on gamma. Observers need to drop more or just be more common. A static observer spawn would be amazing


So, remove static spawns on alpha, but create them on gamma? 

Do you whiners not realize the impact removing static spawns will have on everything actual PLAYERS that aren't cheating do?  I wonder how it'll effect research, fragment farming, module farming ... Ect.  You're tired of botters?  Put down reds that hunt players On each island.  Not just random patrolling and pathing pawns.

These are the same places you used to farm with friends.  Maybe they just need to be harder ... aggro them all!

They'll change the spawns and you whiney beatches will be whining about something else related to it before long. 

Why do whiners get their way?

-Ensi

Can't argue with anything here..

+1

I'm not saying anything about alpha spawns at all. That was purely about the change to roaming reds on gamma. If the roaming reds are going to r espawn fast you might as well make a couple of stitches spawns so they could be farmed because the same farming team on alpha moved to gamma makes about half as much with 100% more risk.

If reds and observers are going to r espawn then make at least two or three static spawns so they can be farmed. Put them in the red area that can't be built on or a base nearby to hide in. Still plenty of risk of rosters but a very challenging npc on the end game islands

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

This one time  I was running from Syndic in a prometheus with nothing but a T4 lwf.   He was following in his Arb mk2 that he likes to drive.  I decided to suicide in a pack of reds.   

He followed me into the pack, killed me before the reds did, and got out safely.  This actually happened more than once.

You have to either admit reds are not that strong,  or admit that syndic is a good pilot.  I leave the choice to you.

-K

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Ensi, The developers change the npc ai.  The problem originally started with npcs getting stuck or going for a swim..

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Ensireka wrote:
Syndic wrote:

1. Remove ALL static spawns from Alpha.
2. Remove NPC explosion-damage destroying loot.
3. Implement kernel-buy orders that activate when corp-owned Beta outpost (nothing in NPC terminals!) is at 100
4. Adjust plasma price to 275 Alpha/325 Beta NPC and Gamma/375 owned Beta outpost at 100 stability.

Less incentives for botting and hiding on Alpha, more incentives for playing the game and competing.


I see what you did there ... you just want to hinder Alpha players and provide bonus's to Beta and Gamma players to do the beacon farming with plasma bombs and arkhe's again ... go figure. 

Perhaps you would prefer 'God' mode  too? 

Do you feel that if a player wants and ONLY desires to play on Alpha doing w/e they want you should punish them for their play style?  (I am NOT referring to botting being acceptable by any means) 

The way YOU play is NOT for EVERYONE.  Quit trying to force players that want NOTHING to do with the other islands to be on them.  That will surely lower the already low population.  If / When they are ready, they'll go there.

-Ensi

Players operate in perfect safety on Alpha, and profiting from perfect safety should NEVER be even remotely close to what players can earn in dangerous areas, otherwise everyone puts 2+2 together and runs scripts/bots/afkminers on Alpha.

Sniveling about poor players that only want to play on Alpha is just laughable. Who wants to pay 30$ to log into a game, go sit at a spawn for X hours and intermittently press R and spacebar? Such players don't exist outside of Chinese sweatshops. Even Russians got their own bots and scripts sorted out, that's how "fun" PVE on Alpha is.

Population will never grow as long as the most profitable thing is to sit on Alpha, grinding spawns until the players grind themselves out of the game.

http://steamcharts.com/app/223410

Zoom, what kind of a player doesn't notice a Tyrannos approaching him surrounded by tons of red dots at ~40kph?

The botting kind.

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Call a doctor. Ville infected Syndic. This is the beginning of the epidemic... fuuu lol lol lol

70 Reply by Annihilator (edited by Annihilator 2015-05-14 00:30:54)

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

DEV Zoom wrote:

Reds could be abused by luring them away on top of other players and leave them there (by being fast enough or simply logging out), and since they aggro on sight, they locked onto the nearest new target. Oranges don't do that.

why do npcs follow players that they can never catch or kill? the "I" in "AI" stands for "intelligence", not "scrIpt"

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Syndic wrote:

Zoom, what kind of a player doesn't notice a Tyrannos approaching him surrounded by tons of red dots at ~40kph?

The botting kind.

Yes. But also honest miners who took some minutes to browse cat gifs between changing tiles (I don't blame them), and first time newbies trying to do their initial steps on alpha, oblivious to everything else like a toddler in a bear pit.

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Are we pretending that it was to kill botters? Or even that you used a tyrannos? You were dragging them with castles on top of scarabs ask on the station. I saw people quit the game over it. It's dumb and should have been dealt with instead of nerfing the mechanic. Nerf the behaviour.

73 Reply by Obi Wan Kenobi (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2015-05-14 01:28:15)

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

Tonnik wrote:

Are we pretending that it was to kill botters? Or even that you used a tyrannos? You were dragging them with castles on top of scarabs ask on the station. I saw people quit the game over it. It's dumb and should have been dealt with instead of nerfing the mechanic. Nerf the behaviour.

Im feeling dirty again. But I think I agree with Jita. NPCs should not follow players all over terrain. they should leash for a while & then go back home!

This is how NPCs used to work & we had red spawns all over alpha

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

if I don't like the changes - I'll just leave the game. old players will not be able to get to play by their rules. wink I think some how I'm gonna do. just opinion... but I still hope there will come new players they like from the outset to be subordinate to and serve someone. as the army

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-05-12

DEV Zoom wrote:
Syndic wrote:

Zoom, what kind of a player doesn't notice a Tyrannos approaching him surrounded by tons of red dots at ~40kph?

The botting kind.

Yes. But also honest miners who took some minutes to browse cat gifs between changing tiles (I don't blame them), and first time newbies trying to do their initial steps on alpha, oblivious to everything else like a toddler in a bear pit.

Sure.

But it takes less then a week to solve honest miners browsing cat gifs, still a year and counting to solve blatant botting on Alpha.

A year of botting vs insurance fraud?

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