-Hm - show me where i stated that i want to grief.
-Show me where the proposed system would allow it to the extend your making up here.
-Show me where there is a non existant problem - since the problem is there for lots of people.
-show me where something i propose is narrow minded while it actually doesnt take anything away but just add possibilities

You cant? Oh boy then you should shut up Savin.

The thing is - you know your wrong. Your attitude is so narrow minded an selfish speaking for the minority of this game and you want to force them to pve and or trade?

The game will go down the road if you force people to do that. All games did that forced people to pve.

You lost already Savin since you didnt bring anything up that show what would be taken away from you. Since then your only implying lies.

You still havent realized what i wrote there eh? Im not talking about ganking and there woudnt be an arms race. Read ffs ;D

For the good of the game - alpha should change accordingly.

You imply that those proposals would only work for griefers - while i know that a lot of pve'ers would like that extra bit insecurity as an idea. Not everybody sure - but there would be enough room in high density areas where every attacker would be vapourized within a second. So it wouldnt take away anything from those.

The system wouldnt let griefers succeed more then once in a while and let them die aswell to 99% - you'd prolly die more often to mob then to those evil eyed bastards.

The changes in fact wouldnt change a lot at current alpha business at all - while they would change the feeling big time.

There wouldnt be much a pure pve'er needs to prepare for - just not being afk. The griefer would be the mob trying to follow you, where the mob would stop due to its set parameters.

Will he succeed? If certain conditions are met in that degrading density guard system - yes. Would he get away with it - hardly. Would he try? Yes.

As a sidenote - it would break up the artificially created pvp areas for desperatly trying to flee pvpers on beta. Artificially locked up rooms - are things to be improved. Its an element from shooters - not an element of sandbox mmos. Some would flee to alpha in hope to get away - and there would be a slight chance - but mostly they wouldnt.

So the only thing taken away from your point of view would be - that pure pve'ers or traders or whatever - have a chance of being killed when bein in one of the least guarded zones, afk in a minor bot being attacked by multi million mech - that would be blown to pieces if he cannot make his way to a beta teleport - while being increasingly attacked by guards he cannot hide from. Mostly - Youd be able to loot him after his fail attempt.

What you gain is: no instanced pvp areas - improving the overall immersion and feel, the idea of trying to have a go at some alpha guy - and for the not so PVE only part of the community - a more interesting pve experience.

Did i meantion the guards insta popping people when attacking players with a certain amount of standing? Would the attacker know? Even this fact would decrease the already small chance of someone firing more then  volley at someone by 75% - and make it a roulette for the griefer - if he'll be insta popped or popped sme minuted later - if he did everything right.

Ok, i will give you time to prepare.

Not at all Anni - nobody is talking about the risk of facing pvp when being not prepared. In working implementations the risk is greatly reduced and the attacker has to invest a lot while he won't be successfull if he doesnt do everything right and the victim does everything wrong. Then still odds are against him since he flags himself. Now if the PVE Com starts to have a go at each other after helping out a fella - thats a whole different part.

Being afk would be 1 thing to do wrong - manouvering into a deadend also would be one thing - but both only when lurking around in a sector where protection isnt dense enough for you to survive also is (depends on yourself, the attacker and the priority at which the guards would interrupt).

Given the guard system comes from above and the response time of defending guards depends on the vicinity of major routes, terminals and OPs AND was tied to faction standing - you could even reduce those few possibilities to 0 and the attacker wouldnt know - and itd be russian roulette for him still if he did everything right and caught a supposedly "weaker guy" offguard in a deserted alpha site.

Guard intervention at most protected areas would be a mezz and nearly insta pop for even the heaviest attackers, while an attack at a "perfect" situation: afk, weak unprepared miner caught in a lower sec area with no faction standings, arkhe for instance - would result in a dead arkhe and a pvp flagged guy getting shot at and mezzed while trying to reach a port to Beta - the only way to go for him.

Increasing number of guards and increasing waves would shatter even biggest raids. This system isnt meant to make griefing viable.

MO does something similar, though less complex - when being attacked you just type: guards and the attacker is popped instantly. The techn ical implementation in MO is pretty bad - but its effective. Once in a while somone got attacked when doing everything wrong - but the attackers got away only if the victim was afk - or the bug ridden game killed the implementation.

Now this method and chances of a surviving such an incident would neet to be recreated by an autonom system - as shown above.

And still lots of pvpers would try it though their chances are nearly null - why? Because they even have fun loosing their stuff while trying something with a success ratio of 1-2% to get away flagged to Beta where they get *** by others again.

Its just about trying.

Hey Green - hopefully the DEVs wont listen to anybody on the forums - thats the worst thing they could do - since customers will never be satisfied due to some people soaking up the current content while others still want new one. You will always please some and negate others - so they should concentrate their effort on their own vision.

If they have one - it may become edgy and stuff - but special in its own way. Thats the only way to go for something that will hopefully be able to last. Players think they know what they would like but in fact would find it boring if they actually get it. Thats not a theory but gaming history.

Why do you think OP characters/classes do exist in MMOs? Not because DEVs are too silly to adjust accordingly - it called rolling OP and is a design to keep people satisfied while others are not. Discussions about those unbalances and the hope to fix them keep games alive. Experienced DEVs use this mechanics on purpose to make their games last long. But this must come from the DEVs themselves and not the COM. If the DEVs dont use these tools and follow the COM - any game is doomed.

Its like with the donkey and the carrot. I am the donkey - pvp on alpha is my carrot.

You dont make me mad Savin, you just are clueless and an amateur when it comes to the things your talking about, which wouldnt be bad if you werent trying to outsmart others.

Prolly you even payed for one of my concepts as an enduser ;D Thanks!

Btw - see? You become creative when loosing - even if its just anargument. Same goes for the game. Next time you gonna own yourself - pls tell me in advance, youd save me time.

The problem simply is that its immersion breaking to have some artificial place to go pvp at.

And sure im going both ways. And i doubt the majority of pve players minds a system in which theres a slight possibility for someone else to attack you. I mean hell - even wow has this and it's the most carebare game out. So - who is right now? You assume something and i do. You allege me of speaking for my narrow minded point of view in a way you accuse me of ;D

Btw - i love pvp - when it breaks loose naturaly. I hardly remember any incident in the last 15 years where i went out to gank someone - in 95% i defended myself after being attacked. Why? Dunno - its more fun for me.

Sure, no question about PVE need be improved - whatever that may be.

And yes, if the guard system worked it would be a good solution. But it didnt, i assume or was too easy, prolly becasue of the landscape and means to exploit hideouts and LoS.

-flying guardians could have access to anything - and waste those guys attacking in alpha
-their concentration/response time or strength is biggest at terminals and outposts and slightly decreases in desolated areas
-balancing would need to assure that even large scale pvp raids would need to withdraw with each guardian wave increasing
-it also could be adjusting numbers of guardians increasing drastically by registering the number of pvp flagged players in that area

Theres lots of ways - overall there should be a chance for a prepared attacker to get away when he goes after a not so well prepared player at a place where the guards response time isnt the fastest. There would be safe no not so safe zones. Camping would be mitigated by increasing guardian waves.

I know a couple of games where guard systems worked properly. And no - it wouldnt keep gankers from griefing - sometimes it works for the attacker - more often it doesnt.

Im not talking about no restrictions Savin, you should know that. But not being able to zone with a flag is a very direct and artificial reason which has no evident reasoning.

edit: uhm restriction*

Oh boy.... And who is we? Stop implying your thoughts are more then just yours or be considered a troll.

To realize that the present pve implementation isnt more then a grind takes a second - same goes with the solution - scripted encounters/extended/improved AI behaviour.

But there more missing then that if PO wants to be a sandbox. And this missing sand is more vital then anything else since the required changes would affect the fundamental design and codebase of the game - rather then just some extended scripted events.

Those changes need to come in before anything else otherwise you'd *** up the priorities in the development path.