Topic: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

There needs to be a tectonic shift in the landscape - literally.  With Perpetuum only in release for 2 months, we have seen a significant amount of stagnation to the beta islands and alliances dynamics, and non aligned corps and player's access to beta islands.

Right from release, we saw an immediate "takeover" of the 3 beta islands by the 3 strongest corps at that time, and immediately with that, the formation of the Norhoop and Darmalan alliances, with Hokkagaros forming an alliance only after its first intrusion defense.  Since that time, with some minor shifts in those alliances, nothing has changed, and the islands themselves have been locked down from any non alliance aligned corps and players.

PVP has become predictable. Intrusions are scheduled, so everyone knows where the defenders and the aggressors will be, and when.  Random PVP is a matter of 1 scout on each tele giving warning, with response teams forming in a matter of minutes, and able to engage relatively quickly to a roaming gang.  Same applies to anyone trying to farm kernels or mine epiton on beta islands that is not aligned to an alliance. There are only 3 access points onto each island, which translates into needing only 3 ppl to tell your island where, when and what, entered the island.

-GET RID OF THE ISLANDS.  Instead, call it what you will, sea level dropped, tectonic activity raised new landmass, whatever, but make beta a super island or small continent, connected to the alpha islands.  Maybe with the alpha islands now as peninsular in an inland sea or gulf.  Leave the teleports as quick access lanes, but now you also have a land route of significant area that players can move thru, including “between” the current beta islands.  Also, there would be a significant increase in landmass that would make it almost impossible for anyone to lock down an entire “region” to control.  And not just connecting the beta islands together, but actually adding landmass around them. 

Populate the landscape with significant amounts of spawns and landscape features and resources, including random location/time spawning events, and give incentives to people to explore those regions.  The current system, even with our current population, is overcrowded.  We need to spread people out more, especially the beta regions.  Because of the increased landmass, and the multiple access points beyond the 3 teleports, what will happen is those people in beta will condense into smaller “defensible” areas, leaving a large expanse of territory that an adventurous individual or group might be able to sneak out to to exploit or explore.  At the same time, teleport scouts are no longer the early warning system, nor travel of a large group in a direction on alpha islands an indication as to where they are going/attacking.

-PLAYER OWNED STRUCTURES -  We all know where everyone’s outposts are, where the miners are likely to be mining, or people farming spawns.  With player owned structures, now the issue becomes more complex.  With a greatly increased landmass, you’ll have to find it, scout it over time to find where the activity is, and plan accordingly.  Anyone potentially could put up a structure, aligned to an alliance or not, if they want to risk the investment in some out of the way corner of the continent.

Potentially, we could see the whole alliance structures that have formed over the past 2 months even breakup to a certain extent.  Without the need to lockdown and island, and with significantly greater landmass to expand into, there would no longer be a need to “blob up” to defend an island, nor access to beta resources being dependant on being part of one to the island controlling alliances.  Add enough landmass, and it even gives people something that might be fun to explore.  Add content into those areas, bizarre landscape features, ruins, spawns, resources, that a small exploring party properly skilled could exploit, but leave the areas as PVP territory, so there is always the risk vs. potential reward.

Discuss.

In the gods we trust, all others bring data!

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

It's a logic and needed consequence. Nothing more to say.

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

I like these ideas very much. Unfortunately, it seems like perhaps too gigantic a change to make at this point. Basically you're asking for a complete rewrite of the game map!

When they do add another island/more islands hopefully they will take this idea of large landmasses seriously though. 3 bottlenecks to get onto or off of an island is way too few. As you mention, this just makes what are actually pretty large landmasses feel quite tiny after a while, especially for small unaligned corps/groups trying to go on exploring/ganking expeditions.

/signed even though I see a total map rewrite as unrealistic at this point.

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

Was thinking along similiar lines when the game was in beta. Guess we're going to have to wait awhile and see.

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

Stupid idea without any thought to what would happen. How short sighted can you be? The only reason there are teleports is to instance the islands for lag purposes and if they were not there then alliances would be based around areas and bottlenecks which would be exactly the same as teleports. At the very most you'd need another couple of people for scouts. You telling me if you lived on hokk and wanted to scout a station's area from another station you wouldn't know where to put people?

THINK!

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

Lets face it we need more islands, otherwise the loading time between zones could mean life or death, we need for want of an equivalent analogy low sec (beta islands) and 0.0 (new charlie islands) and various different routes to each.

You would then see the main alliances moving to 0.0 leaving low sec open for smaller corps/pirates etc etc

7 (edited by Shmoob 2011-01-24 14:08:13)

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

Really, Jita, no thought? leads me to believe you didn't read the post to see the thoughts he had. We all know why they are doing it now, to keep it easy on the network code. IT CAN BE DONE. At the very least, more teleports into the islands that exist would be a welcome change to the dynamics of what we have now. A future endeavor to make it an non-instanced game could be looked into and CAN be done.

READ! before you post. or rather, I should say, comprehend, before you post. Even the guys at Mortal were able to make a non-instanced game world with their complete lack of experience.

The only difficutly here would be a seperation of pvp and non-pvp areas. The only downside would be the "guard zone warrior syndrome" that would insue from having them right next to each other. Otherwise it's not a bad idea and should be the goal of every game company at this point. I'm not one to *** about immersion or stuff like that. I'm here to play the game and play the game vs. others. Even pve is vs. other players between going after spawns or even playing the market.

Even when the new terra formable islands and player owned structures come in, we can create our own bottlenecks so it's pretty pointless to assume anyone would have an understanding of where they are as soon as the race to take them over happens. Right now, it's obvious, it's a teleport and you either go or don't go.

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

blah blah blah

-PLAYER OWNED STRUCTURES -  We all know where everyone’s outposts are, where the miners are likely to be mining, or people farming spawns.  With player owned structures, now the issue becomes more complex.  With a greatly increased landmass, you’ll have to find it, scout it over time to find where the activity is, and plan accordingly.  Anyone potentially could put up a structure, aligned to an alliance or not, if they want to risk the investment in some out of the way corner of the continent.

blah blah blah

Signed, underwritten and saluted. Currently PvP is boring because there is nothing more than kill stats involved. Until we can 'control' areas and structures for a distinct advantage there is no reason to do anything else. I'm not sure on the increased land mass. There's loads of space on the beta islands that probably doesn't get used..... lame spawns, poor mining etc... Until we can make these more profitable (POS for smaller corps in an alliance etc) and defensible, the rest of the ideas will only make a bad situation worse.. Give us a reason to fight for something other than kill stats and then add all the tp's and land mass you want.

"like Kalsius, a shameless carebear and jitalover" - Syndic
http://www.perpetuum-intelligence.com
http://www.perpetuum-intelligence.com/killboard/

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

Jelan wrote:

Lets face it we need more islands, otherwise the loading time between zones could mean life or death, we need for want of an equivalent analogy low sec (beta islands) and 0.0 (new charlie islands) and various different routes to each.

You would then see the main alliances moving to 0.0 leaving low sec open for smaller corps/pirates etc etc

best post in here, couldnt agree more...add 3-4 more islands. Like the op said, either your in an alliance and on beta islands. It only takes one...scout, alt, whatever to watch portals. Betas have the same spawn/mining locations. Alpha is getting *** crazy crowded, for those that dont want an alliance or just want to play for fun...um how many corps are there like that now. And I could see the problem of smaller pvp corps that want to stay that way and solo  x_X

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

PanzerGoddesz wrote:
Jelan wrote:

Lets face it we need more islands, otherwise the loading time between zones could mean life or death, we need for want of an equivalent analogy low sec (beta islands) and 0.0 (new charlie islands) and various different routes to each.

You would then see the main alliances moving to 0.0 leaving low sec open for smaller corps/pirates etc etc

best post in here, couldnt agree more...add 3-4 more islands. Like the op said, either your in an alliance and on beta islands. It only takes one...scout, alt, whatever to watch portals. Betas have the same spawn/mining locations. Alpha is getting *** crazy crowded, for those that dont want an alliance or just want to play for fun...um how many corps are there like that now. And I could see the problem of smaller pvp corps that want to stay that way and solo  x_X

You want my babies don't you!

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

Jelan wrote:
PanzerGoddesz wrote:
Jelan wrote:

Lets face it we need more islands, otherwise the loading time between zones could mean life or death, we need for want of an equivalent analogy low sec (beta islands) and 0.0 (new charlie islands) and various different routes to each.

You would then see the main alliances moving to 0.0 leaving low sec open for smaller corps/pirates etc etc

best post in here, couldnt agree more...add 3-4 more islands. Like the op said, either your in an alliance and on beta islands. It only takes one...scout, alt, whatever to watch portals. Betas have the same spawn/mining locations. Alpha is getting *** crazy crowded, for those that dont want an alliance or just want to play for fun...um how many corps are there like that now. And I could see the problem of smaller pvp corps that want to stay that way and solo  x_X

You want my babies don't you!

no lol, but I know who does wink

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

PanzerGoddesz wrote:
Jelan wrote:
PanzerGoddesz wrote:

best post in here, couldnt agree more...add 3-4 more islands. Like the op said, either your in an alliance and on beta islands. It only takes one...scout, alt, whatever to watch portals. Betas have the same spawn/mining locations. Alpha is getting *** crazy crowded, for those that dont want an alliance or just want to play for fun...um how many corps are there like that now. And I could see the problem of smaller pvp corps that want to stay that way and solo  x_X

You want my babies don't you!

no lol, but I know who does wink

Wicked £15k each!

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

I would /sign your idea because I agree completely, but I'll also point out the main issue:

Game population VS world size VS current Bot speeds:

The game population isn't that rich and with the idea you propose, the game world would become so big that with current bot speeds nobody would pilot anything but fast ewars. Speed wouldn't become just a necessity for combat, but also for avoiding the 2-3 hour prowl to actually find another person to kill.

Now, we could go with the idea that population will rise over time; but it also needs to be taken into consideration what effect it will have on PvP; if you have to walk for 3-4 hours (nevermind scouting and shizzles, just plain old walking your mechs) around the world to find maybe 10 minutes on PvP, it could push people to simply not caring anymore.

PvP is a bit of a wasteland atm... Either you jump to Hokka and roam around finding nothing/20 ewars with T4 mods & nexus running your *** down, or you jump to Norhoop and find 1-2 afk miners/10 ewars with T4 mods & nexus running your *** down, or you jump to Dom and find well... Dockup.

All that aside though, I do believe your idea is the "way to go", we're already knocking elbows in some respects and more room for player growth is always good. With additional discussion and thought (or polish if you prefer), it can go the distance.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

I have to put though, it is still early, given time things will change IM sure. Either new islands, bigger islands, etc. Yes speed does seem to be popular but I imagine in due time things will find a balance. Who knows, maybe they will make the islands smaller and make a free for all o_O hehe

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

Let's face it Syndic the travel times are minimal compared to some of the preparation we had to do in eve for fights. "move all your ships 34 jumps ready for tomorrows ops.  The pvpers will adapt and there will always be a role for fast gank groups, giving those types of players continues fun.   Growing the space will initially make it easy for smaller corps to get something to do without joining the napfest that is no hope, this in turn will grow the casual pvper and create more combat

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

Jelan wrote:

Let's face it Syndic the travel times are minimal compared to some of the preparation we had to do in eve for fights. "move all your ships 34 jumps ready for tomorrows ops.  The pvpers will adapt and there will always be a role for fast gank groups, giving those types of players continues fun.   Growing the space will initially make it easy for smaller corps to get something to do without joining the napfest that is no hope, this in turn will grow the casual pvper and create more combat

Keep this up and that "person" gonna tell other "persons" who will also want your babies. And um to the other guy, sometimes 3-4hours of travel time to wax somebody isnt so bad, been there many times....what wait boss....124 jumps and nothing...OMFG A RIFTER, GET HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

PanzerGoddesz wrote:
Jelan wrote:

Let's face it Syndic the travel times are minimal compared to some of the preparation we had to do in eve for fights. "move all your ships 34 jumps ready for tomorrows ops.  The pvpers will adapt and there will always be a role for fast gank groups, giving those types of players continues fun.   Growing the space will initially make it easy for smaller corps to get something to do without joining the napfest that is no hope, this in turn will grow the casual pvper and create more combat

Keep this up and that "person" gonna tell other "persons" who will also want your babies. And um to the other guy, sometimes 3-4hours of travel time to wax somebody isnt so bad, been there many times....what wait boss....124 jumps and nothing...OMFG A RIFTER, GET HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I killed a rifter in my dread once, true story!

Just so no one gets the wrong idea, I'm being helpful for purely selfish reasons as I want the game to grow and get more pew pew, phew!

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

Jelan wrote:
PanzerGoddesz wrote:
Jelan wrote:

Let's face it Syndic the travel times are minimal compared to some of the preparation we had to do in eve for fights. "move all your ships 34 jumps ready for tomorrows ops.  The pvpers will adapt and there will always be a role for fast gank groups, giving those types of players continues fun.   Growing the space will initially make it easy for smaller corps to get something to do without joining the napfest that is no hope, this in turn will grow the casual pvper and create more combat

Keep this up and that "person" gonna tell other "persons" who will also want your babies. And um to the other guy, sometimes 3-4hours of travel time to wax somebody isnt so bad, been there many times....what wait boss....124 jumps and nothing...OMFG A RIFTER, GET HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I killed a rifter in my dread once, true story!

Just so no one gets the wrong idea, I'm being helpful for purely selfish reasons as I want the game to grow and get more pew pew, phew!

I agree with ya too, this game will not go well if the smaller corps cannot find some way of doing pvp or being apart of something themselvs. Yet the game is new and it needs time to grow, hopefully the devs or whoever are listening. And lol I here ya on the rifter, jumped my thanatos on an iteron while my group of 20 or so held him, lol he was hiding at a moon rofl....

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

Jelan wrote:

Let's face it Syndic the travel times are minimal compared to some of the preparation we had to do in eve for fights. "move all your ships 34 jumps ready for tomorrows ops.  The pvpers will adapt and there will always be a role for fast gank groups, giving those types of players continues fun.   Growing the space will initially make it easy for smaller corps to get something to do without joining the napfest that is no hope, this in turn will grow the casual pvper and create more combat

Yeah but Im lazy and gief cyno. :>

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

Wait, you people still play Perpetuum?.. What are you doing?.. Haven't you heard of the epic M2S Minecraft server. So many blocks. Not enough time to grief them all!

Any, the game has stagnated, become boring, lacks flare. I don't care what happens until we can build something with our own team effort. Be it a small outpost or a giga-mega-cyber-castle.

I'm bored of the same old flavourless PvP and same old day after day tactics to fight the same old stupid robots. New islands and more player made content. There is less than 2 months of content in the game for most people (If you get the bare minimum of skills to pilot what you want) and then for every other robot just add a two weeks from there.

More islands, more travel time, more PvP. Rebalance speed to have at least two types of travel or a longer range (Even ammo based) demob. New robots that can teleport short distances for huge amounts of accumulator or a module that allows 1 robot to teleport other robots to a beacon.

You send in 1 scout. Beacon has a range of 5km and is only viewable to corporation members (I hate alliances and this game isn't ready for them. Less squad abilities and more corporation ones). Another robot, probably industrial then deploys a small structure (Or uses a module on people) that requires massive amounts of energy and can only be used by corporation members. Transfer energy to the device and then use like a module telephone beacon expect this time it only connections to receiving beacons. (The larger the robot the more energy it takes from the structure)

We need black ops, infiltration, sensor/radar blocking. Anything to spice things up. Small gang warfare needs to come back. More islands. More features for PvP. I can't see PvE in this game every being fun unless someone remakes all the NPC's to be like observers and only on special islands.

The Game

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

WOW....tell us how you really feel mate??

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

Bigger islands with 10+ teleports to get onto the island.

New "boat travel" that allows you to go from beach to beach on nearby islands. Limited by distance, but still gives a wide range of places to travel too (preset eevery 500m or something). Allows beta-to-beta access and less predictable travel.  Ill hash this out more in a couple hours... maybe.

->You just lost The Game<-

23 (edited by Lupus Aurelius 2011-01-25 02:59:46)

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

Jita wrote:

Stupid idea without any thought to what would happen. How short sighted can you be? The only reason there are teleports is to instance the islands for lag purposes and if they were not there then alliances would be based around areas and bottlenecks which would be exactly the same as teleports. At the very most you'd need another couple of people for scouts. You telling me if you lived on hokk and wanted to scout a station's area from another station you wouldn't know where to put people?

THINK!

At previously pointed out, apparently you did not read the original post...THINK, yourself!

The idea is to DECREASE the extent of territory that can be locked down, while expanding tha amount of landmass, and creating multiple access lanes beyond the 3 current per island, and give individuals and individual corps the ablity to get into beta areas, and in such a large landmass that they actually could "hide" out there and have to be found in order to do anything about it.

This gives access to beta for everyone, and reduces the ablity of the current alliances to monopolize beta.

In the gods we trust, all others bring data!

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

its not instances thats the problem its that on any island or even landmass only a small amount of alts or people can cover the choke points in the same way as they would teleports. In reality most corps live within 2km of their own outpost and thats a very easy place to scout out if your not ***.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

Doesn't it will be like:

Sequer: oh, betas are now accessible for all! i have shields, and i can do that.
(long time travelling)
Sequer: oh noes! intakt ewar group! damnet i've wasted so many time for nothing and lost everything i had. NO FUKEEN BETAS ANYMORE! (probably leaves the game)

So with that big mass idea betas will be for pvp-only - cuz i don't think anyone will be able to reach something even on fast sequer when there are faster ewars roaming around. No more sequers...how sad! And PvE corps (even they somehow build theyr POS) will dockup immediatly, and after some days of sitting in terminal because someone camping them, will leave betas/game too.

Still, I like this idea. but islands should be a goddamnet large. In other cases, things will be almost the same.

Have a productive day, Runner