1

(16 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

I'm not too sure about the idea of drones. I felt drones in EvE caused a lot of imbalances.

Firstly there's the obvious lag problems of adding 5 NPCs per player to big battles. And second I think it would cause problems between mechs and smaller robots.

Currently medium weapons miss a lot against smaller bots and thus smaller bots can survive in PvP to do their thing, whatever it is. In return smaller bot damage is a lot lower compared to that of bigger bots. Adding drones in the way EvE has them would cause mechs to be able to deal equally good damage to both other mechs and smaller robots. Especially since the speed differences between the robots are much smaller then the speed differences between the different classes of ships in EvE.

However an alternate solution could be the following:

Drone Launchers, using most of the Missile Launcher support skills, this weapon would launch small drones at enemies that would fire several shots over time before running out of energy and disappearing/self-destructing. Technically they would function like a stacking DoT weapon and the drones crawling/flying around the target would be a merely visual effect.

It would be a weapon with basically no Alpha at all but after 10+ seconds the maximum number of drones would be on the target and the DPS would be above that of missiles. Say give it a 3 second RoF ( both for launching drones and the RoF of the drones themselves ) with each drone able of 3 shots. Thus by the fourth shot the first drone would expire and the target would only ever have 3 drones on him at a time.

To me it sounds like an interesting and cool weapon system that gives the same feel as drones would but without additional lag issues ( a DoT on the target should take a lot less server load then spawning a new NPC ) and you'd still be able to make small and medium weapons ( just give medium drones a higher hit dispersion on their stats, but make their hit dispersion scale with Seismics ) as not to unbalance the relation between small robots and mechs.

The missile support skills would be explained by the fact that launching a drone in a better position would increase the damage, RoF and accuracy of it. While shooting a drone without skills would result in it landing in a bad position and thus be less effective.

In addition to that I think it's fair to add a second weapons system to the missile skills seeing as guns have 3 while missiles only has 1.

I'd like to suggest the addition of an extension that reduces the Accumulator usage of weapons.

Lasers and to a lesser degree magnetic weapons have quite high Accumulator usage.

In addition to that lasers have quite low hit dispersion, making the precision firing of limited use to laser users ( small lasers already hit every robot at 100%, and medium lasers every mech at 100%. As such precision firing is only useful to lasers when using medium lasers against light or assault robots. )

This would make a great alternative extension for laser users.

In the end you'd see laser users investing mostly into this extension, magnetics splitting their points between this and precision firing while kinetics users invest mostly into precision firing.

It should reduce Accumulator usage by around 5%, resulting in just over 40% reduction at 10 ranks.

What do you guys think?

serenekaos wrote:

Easier solution. Tag only stays on mob last damaged. Every time you damage a new, unique mob the Tag is dropped on the previously damaged mob.

Heh you're right tongue, my solution isn't exactly easy. But it's a solution that solves this problem without restricting tags to 1 per player. Which is what some other people in this thread were complaining about.

Edited my post so it's now an alternative solution tongue.

4

(133 replies, posted in General discussion)

I do think that PvP in perp will be a lot more common for various reasons when compared to EvE:

- No warping, safespots or any of the like. Just take a fast bot into the beta isles and you should atleast be able to find players relatively quickly. In EvE you spend hours looking for a fight that lasted minutes at most.
- No implants, pods or SP lost on death. If you die you loose what you fight in, nothing more and nothing less. You don't have to decide between either risking extremely expensive implants or making your skills train slower. You can take a light bot into a PvP area and risk just that and nothing more. Here you can do low risk, low reward PvP. In EvE all PvP seems high risk, no matter the reward.

I think/hope that once the basic light bot market is up and running and people start earning millions of NIC per hour we'll see a lot of cheap bots near the beta isle entrances ( on either side of em ) just killing each other for *** and giggles.

This will then hopefully provide a proper stepping stone into more serious PvP deeper into the beta isles. A stepping stone that EvE mostly lacked save for putting alts into FW or RvB.

That for me is the reason why I'm mostly playing Perp. I think the PvP will be a lot easier to find and a lot more accesible.

Haven't tried field containers myself yet but if it's true that you can just spam codes on them that definitely needs to be fixed.

A programmable keyboard could cause some major issues here.

Perhaps an alternative solution would be to no longer associate tags with quest completion.

The multi-taggers are there for the loot, not the missions.

The newbies are there for the missions, not the loot.

So I'd suggest the following changes:

- Tags still give loot Rights.
- Adding damage to a kill gives Quest Rights.
- Destroy & Recover quest items are automatically added when a Quest Right is given.
- NIC rewards for Military missions get adjusted downwards to the level of Transportation missions.
- NPCs receive a small chance ( 10% ) to drop an additional kernel to compensate for reduced quest rewards.

This would lead to the following:
- Going to a farmed quest area would give no loot but fast quest completion for some easy NIC. Basically the same as doing a transportation quest but instead of delivering consoles to a terminal you deliver some ammo to an NPC ( the unfriendly way. )
- Going to an abandoned quest area would give more valuable loot but slower quest completion. Basically the same as it is now but you receive more of your reward in kernels and less in NIC.

Seeing as NPCs pay for kernels I think the economical impact would be minimal, prices may drop slightly due to increased supply but because of the artificial minimum they wouldn't be able to drop very far.

This would imho also lead to a better community on the Alpha isles as this would promote working together in quest areas for faster quest completion. Serious players would still compete with each other over the more valuable loot and kernels but casual players would be able to work together to get fast kills with minimal ammo spend even without formally grouping up.

In the end the situation would remain exactly the same for the more hardcore players. They would still compete against each other for finding the best spawn spots and obtaining asn many kernels as possible. But newbies would have a much easier time. When it comes down to the numbers they would earn about the same as they do now ( instead of 1 30k NIC quest in 30 mins they do 1 10k NIC quest in 10 mins. ) But they would be constantly busy doing something instead of hopelessly trying to get that tag that will just never come.

7

(20 replies, posted in General discussion)

DEV Gargaj wrote:

...or 1965 characters... wink

I have a Gobla with user nr. 1039, one with nr. 1521 and one with nr. 1967. I had another one before the rollback but I think he wasn't remembered. So you can't even divide the user nr. by 3 to get the number of accounts tongue.

I think this is the last Gobla though, probably. Though I might be able to squeeze one more in before the EP cost of deletion is implemented.

And no, I'm not farming light robots. I delete my characters will none of their items, money or anything else transferred. I'm just trying out all the different started paths.

8

(49 replies, posted in Balancing)

I think the current situations is as follows:

In cases where terrain is flat missiles are bad, they're not useless but still bad. Turrets are good here.
In cases where terrain isn't flat missiles are still bad. Turrets however are nearly useless here.

Seeing as a bad weapon is much stronger then a nearly useless weapon we come to the point where people complain that missiles are OP.
Seeing as a bad weapon is much weaker then a good weapon we come to the point where people complain that missiles are UP.

I think that in order to reach balance medium missile DPS ( small missile DPS seems fine by my calculations ) needs a definite boost and LOS for turrets needs to be fixed. then we can hopefully come to the situation that:

on flat terrain missiles are good but turrets are great.
on sloped terrain missiles are good but turrets are okay.

To put it into imaginary numbers: currently Missiles always deal 50% of max DPS, on flat terrain turrets do 100% DPS and on sloped 10% DPS.

What we want is the situation where: Missiles always deal 75% of max DPS, on flat terrain turrets do 100% DPS and on sloped 50% DPS.

Or possibly even 90% for missiles, 100% for flat terrain turrets and 80% for sloped terrain turrets.

New Bump by a new Gobla!

Looks like Pelistal Empire is catching up and Thelodica Clan is lagging behind. Nuimqol Union is still far ahead though.

10

(10 replies, posted in General discussion)

I can't edit my OP since this is a different Gobla then the one I used to create the OP.

But anyway, here's a comparison of the weapon's their hit dispersion. This time I do take skills into account since the increase in skills is not even over all weapons. A weapon that already has a 100% hit percentage is not further improved by reducing that weapon's hit percentage while a weapon that hits 95% of the time is still improved.

Format is as follows:
<Target Bot Type>: <Base Hit Chance>% to <Max Hit Chance>%

Do note that the Zenith has the same Surface Size as a Combat Mech instead of an E-War Mech and that 10 ranks of a 3% decrease is calculated as 0,97^10.

Small Lasers:

  • Light Robot: 100% to 100%

  • Assault Robot: 100% to 100%

  • E-War Mech: 100% to 100%

  • Combat Mech: 100% to 100%

  • Heavy Mech: 100% to 100%

Small Magnetics and Small Missiles:

  • Light Robot: 75% to 100%

  • Assault Robot: 100% to 100%

  • E-War Mech: 100% to 100%

  • Combat Mech: 100% to 100%

  • Heavy Mech: 100% to 100%

Small Guns

  • Light Robot: 60% to 81,36%

  • Assault Robot: 80% to 100%

  • E-War Mech: 100% to 100%

  • Combat Mech: 100% to 100%

  • Heavy Mech: 100% to 100%

Medium Short and Long Lasers, Long Missiles:

  • Light Robot: 37,5% to 50,85%

  • Assault Robot: 50% to 67,8%

  • E-War Mech: 87,5% to 100%

  • Combat Mech: 100% to 100%

  • Heavy Mech: 100% to 100%

Medium Long Magnetics:

  • Light Robot: 33,33% to 45,2%

  • Assault Robot: 44,44% to 60,27%

  • E-War Mech: 77,78% to 100%

  • Combat Mech: 88,89% to 100%

  • Heavy Mech: 100% to 100%

Medium Short Magnetics, Short Missiles, Long Guns:

  • Light Robot: 30% to 40,68%

  • Assault Robot: 40% to 54,24%

  • E-War Mech: 70% to 94,93%

  • Combat Mech: 80% to 100%

  • Heavy Mech: 100% to 100%

Medium Short Guns:

  • Light Robot: 25% to 33,9%

  • Assault Robot: 33,33% to 45,2%

  • E-War Mech: 58,33% to 79,1%

  • Combat Mech: 66,67% to 90,4%

  • Heavy Mech: 83,33% to 100%

Notes:

  • As you can see the higher your hit chance the more effect you get from increasing your Precision Firing or Seismics skill. But as your hit percentage can not go over 100% there's a cut-off point where the effects of these skills start lowering again. This point is, provided that the skill indeed adds up as 0,97^10, at exactly 0,97^10 = 73,74%. Any lower then that and the increase will be less and any higher then that and you'll go over 100%.

  • It should however be noted that this does mean that DPS increases more for weapons with a 73,74% hit chance. In all cases where your hit chance is below 73,74% your hit chance is increased by 35,61% ( 1 / 0,7374 ) Thus the higher your initial hit chance the higher your DPS increase. When looking at a higher hit chance than 73,74% your hit chance is increased by less and less the closer you are to 100% hit chance. Thus the DPS increase is again lowered as you approach 100.

  • Because of this when purely looking at the benefits of the precision firing/seismics skills the most benefit is gained when they are combined with a weapon with a hit dispersion as large as possible. In fact, only Medium Short Guns, with a hit dispersion of 12, receive a benefit against all targets. While Small Lasers, with a hit dispersion of 3, never receive any benefit from the skill at all.

The formula for the DPS increase gained from Precision firing/Seismics is as follows ( based on the assumption that 10 levels of those skills work as 0,97^10 )

DI = 1 - ( Min( ( ( 1 / ( 0,97^SL ) ) * IH ), 100 ) / IH )

With IH = Initial Hit Chance, DI = DPS Increase, SL = Precision Firing/Seismics Skill Level

Or in more normal language: 1 - ( New IH /  Old IH )

Edited the post somewhat to correct math mistakes and failures. Let me know if you find any more.

11

(10 replies, posted in General discussion)

Typhoon wrote:

From the help files:

Turrets: Target size / Hit dispersion===
The quotient of the two parameters show the chance of a hit. For example the target size of your enemy is 5, your weapon's dispersion is 7. Due to this formula, the chance of hit in one cycle is (5/7=0,71) 71%. In case the enemy's target size is 4, and your weapon's dispersion is 4, the chance of hit is (4/4=1) 100%.

A prometheus is size 3.

Standard light small weapons hit disp is:

Laser 3 (100% vs prometheus)
EM 4 (75%)
Gun 5 (60%)

Seems like a huge factor.  I never read my combat log so I don't know the actual results.

Ah thank you for noticing that, that should definitely be included into the calculations. I'll add them ASAP.

Neoxx wrote:

You need to crunch the numbers of T4 weapons instead.  I think you'll find much better numbers there, as well as it being a much better indicator than standards.

EM guns multiply in damage % compared to missiles/lasers, so the numbers based on just the ammo values isnt very telling of anything.

Multiplication is taken into account. Otherwise EM damage wouldn't be the second-highest.

But I'll do a T4 comparison sometime in the future.

However, in a balanced game all weapons should scale equally from standard to T4.

In a balanced game all advantages of a weapons system should be in the weapon itself, not in the skills around it. If missiles do 90% of EM damage at standard level then they should also do 90% of EM damage at T4 with maxed skills. If not then one weapon system is better on the short term while the other is better in the long term, but seeing as all EP should be spend on the long term the practical version is that one weapons system is simply better then the other.